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No hands up still then?
It's looking like my options for a shorter travel 26" FS frame now rest almost soley with either expensive custom or Chinese carbon.
Or the vast array of dirt cheap, lightly used 26in frames on the secondhand market of course.
Sold my Trek Fuel EX carbon frame for £550 this year IIRC, flipping fast bike with awesome geometry!
Northwind - Memberthere's a brand new carbon Remedy 29 just out, that's a big commitment.
Depends how many parts are shard with the 650 - the Enduro 650 and 29er share a front triangle.
I've got noting at all against bigger wheels, but I just can't be arsed to swap all my (really nice) kit over, and nor can I justify the expense.
I'm here too. i'd love a new bike but i defo cant afford one and therefore i`m 26 for a goodly while yet.
i`m struggleing to fine good 26" 1/18th forks though.
i`m struggleing to fine good 26" 1/18th forks though.
Just keep the forks you already have or get a cheap 2nd hand pair and stick an Avalanche Advantage cart in them. my 36's are 2006 and are amazing with that cart in. Also means never have to be sent away to be serviced as you can just do it all yourself.
Enduro 650 and 29er share a front triangle.
No they don't. The 650b uses a 26er's front triangle.
[i]Most people buy into the newest niche.[/i]
Nah, most people buy a bike. People coming to the sport for the first time, they go to a shop and they buy the bike the bloke has got for sale, they like the colour, they like the way it rides, they like the price or the finance deal, or the helmet chucked in. What they don't care about at all, is wheel size. I've more than a few mates who run or road cycle, and have recently bought mountain bikes for the first time, they weren't even aware of the wheel size "debate" and couldn't care less about it anyway, it makes about as much sense as debating the colour red vs green to them.
It's done, get over it.
No hands up still then?
I'd still buy one! I was on the waiting list till well after the initial ETA, then had to drop out for a bit for money reasons, and then it all went a bit quiet. I didn't buy something different though, and I still ride the bike the Rocket would have replaced the frame on. I was really hoping that Cy would come through eventually, but I understand that the situation is different now.
I've got nothing against bigger wheels, but I'm happy enough with the 26" FS I have for now, not that I ride it much in winter anyway. If and when Cotic release something that looks like it's worth the switch to bigger wheels then I'll definitely be on the list for a demo...
wrecker - MemberThere are far fewer Spesh 29ers in the trail/AM category now they've gone 650.
Are there? Still looks like a full range to me 😕 They've culled out all the non-Evo stumpies but that's most likely just because the Evos are better- the standard version competed too closely with the Camber.
No hands up still then?
You wouldn't really know unless you put a firm date/price and took deposits.
I was waiting for one, but am no longer (ordered a different bike now).
But I guess Cy knows how Soul sales have gone in different wheelsizes.
I would have bought a Rocket in 26", but that was over a year ago when frames were apparently weeks away from delivery.
Since then I've bought a Whyte G150S, and it just happened to come in 650b. I'm not purposefully moving standard, it just happened to be the bike that was available at the time. I'd have stuck 26" a year ago if Rocket frames were there to be had.
Are there? Still looks like a full range to me
Only 2 stumpy FSR 29s (3 off 650Bs). 4 off 29 enduros vs 6 650Bs. Looks like a phase out to me.
You forgot to mention the 5 Camber 29ers.
There's never been an Enduro 29er Evo, so that's not a reduction. Pretty obvious why, the standard version is the most extreme 29er out there (possibly shared honours with the WFO) so there's no reason to add an even extremer Evo.
It looks like the S-Works stumpjumper is the only actual reduction in the range, and 650b is still playing second fiddle to 29.
You forgot to mention the 5 Camber 29ers.
I didn't forget. They're XC bikes, and not very good ones.
and 650b is still playing second fiddle to 29.
Not in the trail/AM category they're not.
The Camber's a short travel trailbike, always has been.
But OK, if you doubt it for the standard model the Evo's most definitely a trailbike- look at the expert, 120mm travel, Pikes, 2.3 tyres (Butcher and Purgatory) and a dropper post. Not the trailbike I'd buy but.
Nor me. It's the only bike I've ever ridden which I can honestly say I have hated. I walked it down a trail, that's how much I wanted to continue riding the thing. You can have the evo as a trail but the rest are XC to me, just not XC race.
Specialized's US web site has 7 stumpjumper fsr 29ers v 2 with 650b.
There are an equal number of 29er and 650b enduro models, not counting the evo versions (one of which has a boxxer fork which makes me think it is a light park bike type of thing)
Make of that what you fancy.
I think Cotic are doing the right thing from a commercial point of view by cancelling the 26" wheel Rocket. I was going to buy one, but didn't get the chance. I still have my hemlock, though. I'll consider a 650b version when next considering such a bike.
I wonder what Mike Sinyard had for breakfast?
i`m struggleing to fine good 26" 1/18th forks though.
There's plenty 🙂
Didn't Spesh just replace the 26ers in the Stumpy and Enduro line ups with 650b models and the 29ers carried on as before?
Didn't Spesh just replace the 26ers in the Stumpy and Enduro line ups with 650b models and the 29ers carried on as before?
I guess so. I was prompted by the post suggesting that 29er trail and AM bikes were being phased out.
i`m struggleing to fine good 26" 1/18th forks though.
Ahem... Nothing wrong with these, and loads more if you look around:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bike-split-nicolai-avid-marzocchi
I'll be sticking with 26 as long as I can, if for no other reason than that the bike industry is trying to take the piss out of us all with ever changing standards. That and marketing BS, "it must be good it has Enduro printed on it".
Interesting that most that say they considered/would consider a 26" Rocket also say they either can't afford a new bike or got something else, probably not 26".
Looks like 26" is dead and Cotic made the right call. For the record I've got a 26" HT that I intend to keep and just service/replace the parts. I'm not worried about parts (except decent forks) drying up but can't see many people choosing 26" from new and don't see it coming back any time soon.
Regardless of 650b being a marketing exercise or not it's here to stay and has replaced 26". Personally, any wedge of cash I spend will be on 29" for the foreseeable.
[quote=stevenmenmuir ]I'll be sticking with 26 as long as [s]I can, if for no other reason than that the bike industry is trying to take the piss out of us all with ever changing standards. That and marketing BS, "it must be good it has Enduro printed on it".[/s] my Ti456 doesn't crack
Best get those 650B wheels ordered.....
@rusty spanner I think the target market did by default. Relatively high earners looking to buy exxpensive new bikes, all became very concerned about resale value (due to frequent changing of bikes) as soon as 650b was touted as the next thing and naysayers said 26" would be defunct, as such they all stopped buying any new 26 creating a vicious circle. My 2 peneth...
Think its another example of Cy trying to do the right thing and being honest and realistic about the wider bike industry.
It's just put a massive gulf in the middle ground ie with those of us who don't often buy whole new bikes and upgrade through time replacing big and small bits as we go, meandering through the fashions as they mature.
Myself, I'd love to buy a new frame with progressive/"Enduro" geometry in 26" format as I'm only 5'7" and I don't need wheels any bigger than that. I've got great forks, a good frame, 2 sets of wheels and pretty much a tyre for every occasion. I don't want to have to buy all that again just to get the new style geo. Especially at the 50%+ premium that seems to have been applied to the price of bikes in the last couple of years (to everyone but YT).
The Rocket was a cracking deal at approx £1500 and I was seriously considering one when the production started as I'm a big fan of steel (I've got a Keewee Chromo 8 for downhill) and think it sounds like just what I'd be after in a bike.
I'm sure I can get 96% of the effects of the new geometry with slacksets offset bushes going up a size and such and because of that I'm going to pretty much flick 2 fingers at the industry and not buy much until things calm down.*
* Not surprising as I'm still on 9-speed and have 8 year old brakes on my bike.
Chainline - Member@rusty spanner I think the target market did by default.
Did what by default?
Stopped manufacturing and supporting 26 inch bikes?
That was the manufacturers.
Relatively high earners looking to buy exxpensive new bikes, all became very concerned about resale value (due to frequent changing of bikes) as soon as 650b was touted as the next thing
And who touted 650b/the death of 26/the stupidity of those who refuse to embrace the new wheel size?
The bike media, who spouted every single platitude spoon fed to them by the manufacturers.
And who touted 650b/the death of 26/the stupidity of those who refuse to embrace the new wheel size?
The bike media, who spouted every single platitude spoon fed to them by the manufacturers.
meanwhile people are enjoying riding bike
Doesn't make it untrue, does it?
true or untrue or exaggerated or understated or laden with whatever it's happened. Now would seem like a good time to move along.
I'm still waiting for the explosion in 650B+ 👿
Now would seem like a good time to move along.
Indeed. And you'll move along quicker on slightly bigger wheels... 😉
mikewsmith - Member
Now would seem like a good time to move along.
For who?
I think it does us good to be reminded of what a greedy, rapacious, cynical, dishonest bunch of shysters some of those in the industry are.
And the media reaction to 650b will always be there to remind us exactly how we are perceived by those who claim to represent and promote the best interests of 'our community'.
The bike industry doesn't care about what riders think or want, any further than if they can get people to buy their stuff. As riders, we owe them nothing. Frankly, I am excited about a move away from the massive companies by the folk exasperated by the dropping of the original 26" mtb wheel size. We can buy our bikes from smaller, more core companies, the odd one man bands even smaller than Cotic. The bike industry can go to hell, with their carbon and all that. Pfft.
I know communism must have created much better bikes than our capitalist approach ever could - have seen how popular bicycles were in China?
Complaining about cynical marketing bullshit and the forced introduction of new standards is promoting communism?
Wow.
🙂
To be fair to the bike industry (including the mags etc) they need something new to sell otherwise we'd all be happy with what we have and they didn't have a whole lot of other options.
They had an infinite number of options.
But they were all difficult ones - making things lighter/longer lasting/more accessible/comfier/more efficient/more fun is difficult.
Increasing market share is difficult.
Encouraging new people to take up the pastime is difficult.
Bringing genuine innovation to market at an accessible price is very difficult indeed.
Withdrawing an existing standard (and long term support for it) and replacing it with a pointless new one is much easier.
/\ That.
If the bike industry was struggling to sell their stuff, there are many ways they could have gone. What about making a move towards BMX, where a bike can be taken apart and built entirely with a 5 and 6mm Allen keys and a hammer? What about promoting their wares outside of the mega bucks racing world and more towards real grass roots events and initiatives, generating real rider goodwill? What about some more genuine geometry exploration?
There are so many more things than an incompatible, fractionally larger wheel size. That ain't communism, it's just not cynical and cheap.
Can't wait to see people's reaction to B+
Or B- ( though that's just me and Vee Rubber)
I agree; I'd rather they'd gone down those routes too, but would anybody really dump a perfectly good bike just to buy one that is slightly lighter or that can be taken apart with two allen keys? I doubt it. But clearly they will jump all over a new sized wheel.
I may not be happy with it, but I still can't blame the companies for behaving like companies.
Of course, we can behave like consumers and use our money to support those companies who have behaved in the way that we want. If enough of us do so then the companies will behave differently. Unfortunately it would seem that most of our peers just want to buy whatever is in fashion at the lowest price possible.
And who touted 650b/the death of 26/the stupidity of those who refuse to embrace the new wheel size?
The bike media, who spouted every single platitude spoon fed to them by the manufacturers.meanwhile people are enjoying riding their [b]brand new 27.5/29"[/b]bike
Oh man. I was thinking about the Rocket yesterday. It must be very frustrating and stressful for Cy.
Withdrawing an existing standard (and long term support for it) and replacing it with a pointless new one is much easier.
It's only pointless in your opinion. I suspect it has a much greater effect on how a bike rides than the introduction of tapered steerers did - and they've caused equal problems for old frames. I was sceptical but I've spent most of the year riding a 27.5 full-sus and I'm now back on my 26 hardtail for winter. Based on that I've concluded that they're just a bit better for MTBing - I can see a disadvantage for dirt jumping, freeride, slopestyle and very small riders but for everyone else I suspect mountain biking just started out on a smaller than ideal wheel.
It's all very well arguing it's a tiny percentage change but a 2 degree change of head angle is equally small - and it feels really different!