MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
My take on it is that sometimes it might actually be the same. Sometimes it might look the same but not actually be the same. Sometimes that difference might actually matter, sometimes it might not. You just don't know.
You could always buy 4 of the 200 quid frames and then test 3 of them to destruction, just to satisfy your curiosity regarding quality, and still be 200 quid better off. 😀
I see what you did there. Perhaps I should've said 'corking' 🙂
some of them do, like I offered njee he wants to come and see how he's more than welcome
So I assume you're laying up frames for one of the major manufacturers? Which one, if I may ask? Not Scott, because you sure as hell don't know how they're put together!
Bottom line though - they do just the same job (unless you're the sort o sucker who cares about perceived quality/image/status etc.)
If you're going to be like that about it we should all be riding Apollos. They do do the same job too.
CBAsed.
They do do the same job too.
Great argument. AAA+. Go to the top of the class.
Spesh taking a stake in Merida is pretty much a textbook example of outsourcing.
njee Its not a personal attack its an offer to expand your knowledge, I assumed you knew peter
Who cares about the carbon quality, at £180 buy an on-one cr-mo frame, at least you know it's solid and has been designed by a rider that knows how a bike should ride.
There's more threads about failed On One's than Chinese carbon frames...
[sycophant]
[/sycophant]Who cares about the carbon quality, at £180 buy an on-one cr-mo frame, at least you know it's solid and has been designed by a rider that knows how a bike should ride
Caad 10 is meant to be goodThanks.I'd still like someone to convince me either way as I am looking for a new road frame.
There's more threads about failed On One's than Chinese carbon frames...
Is there? Can you post a link to a failed carbon On One?
Genuine interest, honest! 🙂
Woohoo my carbon whippet frame just arrived from on-one...oh sorry, wrong thread 🙂
Sorry to go back to those Chinarellos but they offer 2 years warranty thats the same as Pinarello if you don't register within 10 days of purchase extra 12 months if you do, though I don't know how good Chinarellos warranties are.
🙄 Daily Deal tomorrow? 🙄
According to [url= http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2011/03/beware-of-fake-pinarello-bikes.html ]this[/url] Pinarello use Toray carbon and according to that Chinarello advert they also use Toray carbon so is the advert lying or is Pinarello trying to put people off them?
Daily deal?
brant - Member
Daily Deal tomorrow?
Never mind all this carbon stuff on Daily Deal - get some 29er tyres on
😀
Tron - other way round. Merida own part of spesh.
A guy at work has a chinarello. I would say its extremely well made/ finished. Unless you were a seasoned bike geek you can't tell its a fake. I would quite happily buy/ ride one.
njee Its not a personal attack its an offer to expand your knowledge, I assumed you knew peter
Peter? WTF? I've not taken it as a personal attack in the least, dont worry. We're all still waiting for you to give any evidence whatsoever that you know what you're talking about. Everything you've said suggests you have no clue. And repeatedly saying 'I know more than most' just makes you sound like a bit of a tool!
I don't klnow if the OP has the desire to buy carbon after reading all this or even the will to ride a bike ever again, but....
[url= http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR456ND/on-one-carbon-456-un-decalled-frame ]http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR456ND/on-one-carbon-456-un-decalled-frame[/url].
In case it hasn't been seen.
A thing of beauty, behold the sexyness 😛
Unless you were a seasoned bike geek you can't tell its a fake
How do you tell if you are a seasoned bike geek?
'don simon - Member
I don't klnow if the OP has the desire to buy carbon after reading all this or even the will to ride a bike ever again, but....'
Yes seen this... and after all the chatter I have decided to not buy a carbon frame.... however £299 is really good, but I will need new forks.. 120mm rebas might just do... no I must not the budget was £200.. oh bugger...
No really! I gave up a while back and ordered some slx brakes from rose bikes - £120. My LBS offered a cracking deal on some hopes but still just outside the budget 😥
So, anyway, I am getting the thing that was second on my wishlist of new stuff, and at a knockdown price that means mrs cider is still very happy! Bonus!
Going to the quantocks the end of next week, and Sharki is showing us round - new brakes will be used to slow my mass....
😆
Why would anyone wan't a carbon frame for off road use anyway! If I want carbon when I'm on the trail I would pack my fishing rods.
£299 for a carbon 456? I'd love to try one
Is there? Can you post a link to a failed carbon On One?
Genuine interest, honest!
Sorry PP, I meant steel ones, the comment was made that instead of buying a cheap carbon frame you should just buy an uber-reliable cro-mo On-One. Not seen any failed carbon On-Ones, nor Chinese MTBs. It was tongue in cheek though, as the volume of O-Os being ridden on here is a fair bit higher than Chinese carbon frames, but even so, like I said the only failure I could find was someone using one as a jump bike to see how it lasted, and breaking it after a couple of years.
Why would anyone wan't a carbon frame for off road use anyway!
Why wouldn't you "wan't" one (grammar fail)? Genuinely. Why would you dismiss so stridently a material that is used for 90% of top end bikes these days?
Good analysis here
[s]Good analysis[/s] Paranoia here
Yes seen this... and after all the chatter I have decided to not buy a carbon frame.
Don't let this thread put you off buying carbon in the future. I love my Orbea even though it sounds strange as the water bounces off the plastic when washing or the rocks ping off it when riding.
I have no fear of breakages and the frame has a lifetime warranty anyway.
Enjoy your purchases.
njee I don't want one because they snap a lot and have a habit of turning into splints when you fall off and the frame bangs a rock and the like. I'm also so sorry for failing on my grammar! I bow my head in shame to your sanctimonious pearly arse. Also I cant fit a rack on a carbon frame so its just not practical for me. I would not have one for free so the Chinese frames would be expensive at 100 quid!
You could say that alloy or steel frames fail but in comparison to carbon I would like to know the ratio of carbon MTB frames sold? I would bet there is a stupid bias towards alloy and steel frames sold, so saying a carbon frame is just the same as the other materials is not really an argument for me.
njee I don't want one because they snap a lot and have a habit of turning into splints when you fall off and the frame bangs a rock and the like. I'm also so sorry for failing on my grammar! I bow my head in shame to your sanctimonious pearly arse.
Not sure about pearly? Sanctimonious arse is perfectly valid though!
The other points are just a bit daft though! All frames snap, whether you fall off/have a rock strike or whatever. Just avoid commercial aircraft too from now on eh! Still, each to their own!
Its just progress innit. Few years back on here Aluminium frames were subject to the same debate of how they snapped so much easier than steal and the only thing that didnt snap was titanium.
Bit stupid to compare an F1 car or a 300 million dollar aircraft to most carbon MTB frames IMO. I think that is where you score a big fail. Also I would have a guess that a commercial aircraft is slightly more tested than most carbon MTB frames! Yes all frames fail but I hear about just as many if not more carbon MTB and 'road' frames failing in the real world as I do about steel and alloy frames. I would say there is a stupid bias in alloy and steel frame sales compared to carbon too! So would you care to elaborate on that with your godly knowledge on these matters?
There must be hundreds more alloy frames sold compared to one carbon frame and there is definitely no more reports of those snapping and nasty things happening. Also carbon does get trashed more in a crash and that's a fact. I see people with bad nerves after a carbon bike crash. People riding alloy and steel frames don't seem to be in such a panic after the same light crashes.
There must be hundreds more alloy frames sold compared to one carbon frame
Maybe - but most of those are Halfords specials which aren't ridden hard. I'd suggest that in terms of road bike frames in a typical 3/4 race (let alone anything higher) the proportion is very much the other way round, and there's certainly a very significant proportion of carbon frames in use by MTB enthusiasts (ie those posting on here).
Anyway, where do you hear about carbon frame failures? From other paranoid sceptics who like to pass on any report of carbon frame failure (but ignore the metal ones)? From reports of crashes in bike races? I'm convinced there's significant over reporting of carbon failure compared to metal - there's certainly not the data to suggest that carbon frames fail more than metal ones.
Also carbon does get trashed more in a crash and that's a fact
No that's a fail - given a crash which does the sort of damage to a carbon frame you'd like to report, a metal one would also be written off.
People riding alloy and steel frames don't seem to be in such a panic after the same light crashes
That's kind of surprising given that the paranoid seem to be the ones on metal. Where do you get that data point from?
[i]I don't want one because they snap a lot[/i]
I think you'll find that even the ones that do break tend to only do so once.
Aracer's last post +1!
I see people with bad nerves after a carbon bike crash. People riding alloy and steel frames don't seem to be in such a panic after the same light crashes.
If you had data to back this up I would also like to see the severity of the crash included in the data.
An aluminium frame cracking due to fatigue or from a minor crash at lowish speed compared to a carbon frame being in a high speed crash and being written off are completely different. Any frame can fail in a big way as there is not really any redundancy in the structure and when they do the results are nasty.
Carbon frames do not come on cheap bikes and are normally subjected to the extremes of the sport - be it a road cyclist or an off-road cyclist. As such there use is skewed so comparison is impossible unless you directly compare like to like - eg a 1kg XC race frame made out of aluminium, steel (yeah right!) and carbon.
Another thing people seem to be skating around is if you want a frame that is stiff enough to be efficient but also light and absorb vibrations then you don't really have any other choice. Again, the people who really don't know much about composites don't understand how much can be done with them to tailor behaviour such as stiffness, strength, impact resistance etc etc.
Aracer +2
seth -1
also I'd much prefer to ride a repaired carbon frame than a repaired aluminium one.
Spesh taking a stake in Merida is pretty much a textbook example of outsourcing
Last time I paid attention to the Taiwan business news Merida had bought 49% of specalized... however this was back in about 2003 (or roughly whenever the Spec Epic was launched).
I think that is where you score a big fail. Also I would have a guess that a commercial aircraft is slightly more tested than most carbon MTB frames!
Actualy, its probably the other way arround..........
The aircraft will undergo a lot of FEA etc and individual components may be tested to validate the FEA modeling. But a prototype airliner is invaluable, dont't think you'd get to actualy break it.
Whereas bike manufacturers will hapllily leave a frame on the test rig untill it fails as it's only cost them a few hundred, or maybe thousands of, dollars. On-one even showed how many cycles beyond the CEN tests the carbon forks lasted IIRC?
I see people with bad nerves after a carbon bike crash. People riding alloy and steel frames don't seem to be in such a panic after the same light crashes.
So you admit, it's a paranoia, not a fact?
[url= http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/29ER-FULL-SUSPENSION-263.html ]Oh no! These guys are now making unbranded carbon 29er duelly's.[/url]
Must admit they look great! But I'm a non believer.