[Closed] Cheeky trails: risk and reward

Ps my most glorious is goyt valley, archetypal proto gammon (circa 2011) had a massive passive-agresaive moan at me Thursday morning approx 8.30 am (nobody else around). I simply told him it was a shame he had ruined his own morning and rode off. He went redder. He deserved it.
In the process I also discovered a superb trail I now ride regularly when in the area.

No such thing as a cheeky trail, the very idea of an area/path/trail that you are not allowed to ride is utterly ****in ridiculous in my opinion and is to be challenged at every available opportunity.

Saying that, there are complete dicks who ride bikes who would be complete dicks if they were on foot/in a car etc, just be aware that every time you ride on a trail you have a duty of care not to inconvenience nor cause alarm for other users of that trail/path.

I live in Scotland btw, can’t ride any more due to ms but when I could I rode extensively all over the UK and rode wherever I liked, whenever I liked with due care and attention for other possible users of the trail/path etc. I very rarely met with abuse and the ones that did remonstrate with me were the type of folk I’d class as “dicks” no matter where in life I met them.

"you have a duty of care not to inconvenience nor cause alarm for other users of that trail/path."

"the ones that did remonstrate with me were the type of folk I’d class as “dicks” no matter where in life I met them."

Absolutely! This applies to me and my experience 100% including above.

I think I agree.

Me too.
There are some woods a few miles from my work .(let's say on the Luton Airport flight path). Some lovely bits of singletrack ,patrolled by an old chap with a really friendly ,lovely dog. The first time I saw him he waved me down and told me it was the Queen Mother's land and she didn't like cycling. He now gets more irate every time we bump into each other. I have attempted friendly debate with him,mentioning kinder scout access stuff and how we both enjoy and respect the surroundings & wildlife, but he won't have it and gets red in the face.So I just ignore him or even change direction to avoid his ire.
Come to think of it I haven't seen him for a few months , perhaps he's been on the leave march......

Nobody gives a ****!

I was not obeying the rules of cheeky, but it was so quiet I thought: who can I possibly offend?

The old dear who lived in the farm the cheeky trail descended from, emerged, shouting, *incandescent* with rage

Now you know who you can offend, and she obviously does give a ****.

Sometimes you just can't win!

Occasionally, when challenged, I stop and attempt to have a calm conversation about how we both enjoy the outdoors, and there is enough space for everyone to enjoy whatever they do so long as we are all respectful and responsible. It never really goes all that well ...

Other times, I just can't be bothered, and ride on and ignore them, or (to my shame) shout back something mildly offensive.

Some people are just kill-joys and just like pointing out the rules/laws to other people, and no amount of either calm discussion or shouting back is going to change that.

At the end of the day, I think we (should) have as much right to all the trails as anyone else ... I'll still ride cheeky stuff but try not to be a dick about it. I am both enjoying myself and being a political activist on each ride! 😁

the best people to encounter on cheeky trails are those with an uncontrolled dog, I.e. not on a lead. a great debate then ensues. the epitome is when you ask if they pick up the animal's faeces & they say they don't have to as it's "on grass/open land" etc etc. in the end no one wins though.

the best reply I use is...

"oi, this is a footpath, no bikes allowed"

"yes I know, terrible waste isn't it"

and ride on

100% agree with Soma, bang on.

Really sorry to hear you can't ride any more mate, but the riding you did do considering what you'd been through is inspiring stuff my friend.

I was once stopped by an irate walker, moaning about me being on a footpath. My reply about not being interested in them feeling upset was interupted as two horse riders came down the same path.

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I'd love to meet the local loon who does this all over Rivi. Including putting caltrops on the trails.

I can see both sides of the argument.

One side: did a big day a couple of weeks ago, linking up stuff between Rochdale and Calderdale. Only met one person, a walker fiddling inside his rucsac some distance from the path I was mincing down on my rigid bike. He replied to my greeting with 'you know this is a footpath?' Which it was, technically, but in actuality it was an old flagged packhorse route (dropping down to to Lumbutts). No erosion issue, and he was the only other person on (near) it. Just carry on.

The other side: I dress in general outdoor gear rather than the regulation Power Rangers MTB uniform. I avoid rides that might create conflict, but on the rare occasion I meet walkers and horse riders, I ride considerately, slow down to a crawl or stop, and always attempt to make human contact with them. So why do many of them cringe away by the side of the trail as if I'm about to mow them down? This is learned behaviour based on past experience. What are some mountain bikers doing that generates this response?

Re: Rivi - rats in a cage, too many people in too small a space. I live near Rivi but won't ride there. Life's too short.

So why do many of them cringe away by the side of the trail as if I’m about to mow them down? This is learned behaviour based on past experience. What are some mountain bikers doing that generates this response?

I've only ever experienced this kinda fool on gluepot routes, and generally bloody bridleways! around the likes of Grasmere/Ambleside etc. The kinda folk that never walk more than a few hundred metres from their car, and assume that the track is theirs for the day.

When ye get out onto more remote hills, pretty much everyone is pleased/astounded to see you. 🙂

True, that is a factor.

Actually, horse riders are usually ok, but that's because I've talked with them in the past and know what they need me to do to make it an easy encounter (old man whistling, works a treat, the horse knows you're about and isn't threatened; works for some walkers, too...).

Even in Scotland you get asshats that tell you the path isn’t for bikes.

my local woods have loads of paths that aren't rights of way, or even marked on a map in most cases. If you get asshats telling you that you aren't allowed to ride a bike, I take great pleasure in telling them we are both in the wrong.

poah

Member
Even in Scotland you get asshats that tell you the path isn’t for bikes

yep, had this last week in Pollok Park while coaching a group of kids. A common issue in the park there.

My usual phrase is "no need to apologise as I'm the one who shouldn't really be on this path" respect breeds respect.. think I've only had 3 proper confrontations in 30yrs of cheeky Chilterns riding

I have to go against the grain on this one. The rules say no bikes on footpaths. Why do you all feel so entitled, that the rules don't apply to you?
It just causes conflict, and that conflict means that walkers (who have far greater numbers than us) will never allow a change in the access rights.

The digital red sock brigade have arrived 😉

I have to go against the grain on this one. The rules say no bikes on footpaths. Why do you all feel so entitled, that the rules don’t apply to you?
It just causes conflict, and that conflict means that walkers (who have far greater numbers than us) will never allow a change in the access rights.

Because life's too short not to.

I've gotten more abuse for being on an ebike than for being on a footpath.

I smile at most people I meet and most people I meet smile back...

There's always gonna be some knobbers consumed with:

hate

primal territorial instinct

a sense of entitlement

shock at someone travelling faster than them as they soak up the serenity of their surroundings

a foolish respect for rules and regulations

and most of em are probably just knobbers; however, it is our responsibility to ensure the safety and wellbeing of other trail users, so a degree of common sense if required.

Smiling is good though, everyone should try it!

Re: Rivi – rats in a cage, too many people in too small a space. I live near Rivi but won’t ride there. Life’s too short.

I rode there three times last week on lovely dry trails, everyone was happy and friendly enjoying the burst of nice Spring weather.

Rivi. Including putting caltrops on the trails.

What? When was this? Did I miss something?

There is a large deer themed tourist attraction, I mean country park, about 10 mins ride from my house where I live. I used to ride there regularly but after a few too many run ins with over opinionated dog walkers (of the angry gammon variety) I abandoned riding during daylight hours even at 6am.  I don't night ride anymore but judging by Strava it's still being ridden.

Pretty much all the entertaining local riding round my way is "cheeky" but I pick and choose when and where I ride maybe a little more carefully than I did as I got fed up with rides being ruined by arguments with idiots, I ride to relieve stress not to exacerbate it.

The root of the problem is that we are a little island with a lot of people packed in so you get people getting very possessive of "their" paths and spaces, as someone else put "Rats in a Cage".  Funnily enough people in Wales and Scotland tend to be a bit more chill.

Bikes aren't automatically allowed on footpaths. But those who challenge tend to assume you haven't been given permission to ride there! Occasionally the offendee is the landowner, but mostly it's some random folk.

There's several round me where the 'footpath' is a well armoured trail or farm track where zero erosion will occur. The alternative 'bridleway' is a muddy chaos of ruts and puddles which I'll do real damage to if I ride it the wet.

Which is doing actual harm or damage of ridden?

All that said, rule 1 (the only rule), applies. Whatever you're doing, don't be a dick about it.

FYI cheekiest time of the week in my experience is Sunday tea time into evening. It's like I Am Legend.

Me - I'm deferential to all walkers regardless of whether it's a FP or BW and will always attempt a smile and a quick word. I don't always get one back though. I still think Strava's had a massive impact on people riding like cocks though regardless of the visibility down the trail or the presence of others.

I ride cheeky trails all the time and I have never encountered any angry words from any walkerists. However I tend to do most of my riding after tea time so don't always meet folks out on the hills.
My view is: The earth belongs to all it's inhabitants, I don't recognise the authority who says I can't ride a bike here or there, it causes no more damage than people walking, the whole idea of footpath only is ridiculous, why should the walkerists have all the good trails?
When I do meet anyone it's great big smile, a cheery 'hello' or 'good morning' and 'thanks' if they stand to the side, I find people usually respond positively.

I like how everyone refers to them as "cheeky" trails as well. Its a nice way to make it feel less wrong isn't it.
Do you all have the same feeling towards people riding motorbikes illegally offroad? I mean its not really doing any harm is it?

"There is no authority but yourself"

I like how everyone refers to them as “cheeky” trails as well. Its a nice way to make it feel less wrong isn’t it.

Not sure if you're trolling or naive, but I personally dislike "cheeky trails" as it infers that we should have to be sneaky and tacitly recognise that there might be some kind of vailidity to the ridiculous access rules in England and Wales.

To my regret, the last one I engaged with just wanted to rant. Regardless of my pointing out that he didn't know if I'd agreed with the land-owner that I could ride there, he just wanted to sound off. So I just sat down told him to be on his way, and that I was stopping to have a biscuit. His wife pulled him away after a bit when he appeared to just want to go on and on.

It wasn't my finest hour if I'm honest, and I sat there fuming for a bit about the words I'd used, but that's the first one in ages, as most folk want to just live and let live.

My worst one was on a tour of Ben Lomond many years ago. We did the bridleway over the shoulder from Rowardennan and then dropped down to glen dubh past comer farm. There was a sign on the fence saying no cyclists but the altwrnative route was bloody miles round loch Ard and Inversnaid so we decided to continue.

We got about 100 yards and the the farmers spotted us from a nearby field and started yelling... We figured we just needed to get about half a mile further then it would be downhill so we could outrun them. So off we went pedalling furiously.

Alas the farmers didn't jump in their tractor, they jumped in the pick up and gave chase. Although they had a huge detour to do they soon overhauled us as we puffed up the inclne. They sped past and stopped 100 yards further on. The wee guy was honed as a basturd and was seriously pissed. The big guy was just plain big. They arrayed themselves across the path ready for a square go.

We requested, pleaded and cajoled, giving them the sob story about the twenty like detour but they were having none of it. The wee guy detailed how a mtb group from Glasgow had tried to force the issue and he had essentially sent then home to think again.

Me and my accomplice are completely useless in a fight so that approach didn't even enter our minds. After ten more minutes of discussion we set off back towards Stronaclachar and the long way round.

A few years later they changed the access laws and I often wonder how the first few groups through that way got on with the farmer. Occasional searches didn't throw anything up.

Not sure if you’re trolling or naive

Not trolling, possibly naïve. If so would you care to educate me?

The rules say no bikes on footpaths

Do they? Do they actually say this? I'd like to see the source.

My understanding is that we have a specific right to ride on bridleways, and no specific right on footpaths. But I'm not aware of any general laws forbidding us from riding on footpaths.

Edit: Please don't tell me if I'm wrong, as I might start feeling guilty 😉

Im interested in this.

Ill hold my hand up. I ride cheeky stuff. Some of it I know is naughty some of it I am honestly non the wiser especially over Hebden way as I don’t ride there often enough.

I ride on my own and in groups but mostly at night. On a weekend your more likely to see walkers on an evening its generally people with paths past their house.

Now I can totally see the issue with 20 blokes on bikes coming past your house with 5k lumen lights stuck to their head. I wouldn’t like it tbh so I don’t expect anyone else to. Recently last few years (in Calderdale) there seems to be LOTS and LOTS more folks on bikes. I can see why people get upset. However as above its generally peoples attitude.

Recently I was riding a footpath that ended up in the farmers field and then through their farm. Some years ago the old lady (and bloke) got buzzed by some bikers and she (in her 70’s 80’s) is really scared of them rocketing through her yard. So by word of mouth everyone gets off before the farm and pushes the bikes through. Everyone’s happy but when someone rides through they come out and have a rant. You cant really blame them for that and its one of the reasons why I setup Calderdale trail on FB and twitter. To let folks know if there was an issue or to ask if your coming to the area. It sometimes works it sometimes doesn’t…… it’s a start though and needs more folks to use it.

But what also happens is you get some bikers that are aggressive back. This doesn’t solve anything imo. Being overly nice is generally the way forward. If you have had someone come past you at 30mph with a full face on while your out walking with your kid im sure youll appreciate it’s a scary experience. If your mincing (as I am) looking knackered then it’s a different story and people are normally laughing at me.

The dicks being dicks thing is true and there are a lot more of them these days I think.

In reality (in my lifetime) I doubt we will see access like Scotland, it would be nice, so lets just all get along. Forget that strava segment and enjoy the ride.

Btw Does anyone know if bikes are actually specifically excluded from footpaths or if they arnt permitted? What is the true definition?

https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/public-footpaths-england-wales

Unless the landowner permits it, cycling on a footpath in England and Wales normally constitutes trespass, making it a civil but not a criminal matter. A local by-law or Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) covering a particular footpath, however, can make it an offence.

what if you arnt aware of any local bylaw?

My worst one was on a tour of Ben Lomond many years ago. We did the bridleway over the shoulder from Rowardennan and then dropped down to glen dubh past comer farm. There was a sign on the fence saying no cyclists but the altwrnative route was bloody miles round loch Ard and Inversnaid so we decided to continue.

I've ridden that way a few years ago. I'd heard stories about nutter at Comer farm who didn't like cyclists. Thankfully it's no longer an issue. I'd be amazed if they actually had the right to block your path like that though, although as you say its no really worth fighting over

And they go on to say:

Cycling UK believes that it is acceptable for cyclists to use footpaths, provided they do so in a manner which respects the safety of other path users and their peaceful enjoyment of the outdoors, and with regard for the environment and its ecology.

i think the best thing we (as in bikers) can do is take that statement and use it.

As an inexperienced mountain biker I used to go out with a crowd from Bury who were quite well organised, they had a jersey/shorts combo printed up by Riggi Cycles in Bury and called themselves Bury Mountaindales. This was in the days before baggy became fashionable, the entire group used to ride around dressed like roadies in flouro lycra. The stuff was good quality too; I've still got the jersey and it's a good one.

We all went out for a ride from Helmshore, planning to go up the hill south of Haslingden Grane, I think it's called Musbury Heights, to explore the old Lancashire stone quarry works. Anyway as we plodded up the hill a farmer appeared in a 109" Series 111 and proceeded to chase us up the hill, the poor old Landy bouncing across the hill like a mad thing. Eventually he cornered us and got out to berate us, absolutely foaming at the mouth with indignation. Some of the younger lads crowded around and began to give him some lip, which I could see wasn't helping so I strolled over and tried to calm him down. He even pointed to the tie rod on the front suspension, which had been bent back by hitting a rock and shouted: "See that? That was the last effin' mountain biker I caught up here; I ran him over". Yeah, well...

Anyway by talking calmly and being reasonable I got him to calm down and agree for us to walk off his land onto a track. I've since heard other stories about the farmer up there so Musbury Heights remains an interesting area that I only ever got to explore on foot.