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Dispute is between me and a respected shop. Damage is to the fork stanchion caused by a rear wheel being placed over the stanchion inside the bike box, cassette facing onto the stanchion with NO protection in between whatsoever.
I bought a bike from somewhere opposite side of the country which seller listed as local pickup only.
I asked someone in that part of the country to pick the bike up pay for it and drop it off. The seller proclaimed the bike to be with unmarked undamaged stanchions on the 2016 Fox 34 Performance FIT4 fork, the person collecting the bike confirmed this and paid the seller and then dropped the bike off to a local bike shop I had pre-arranged with to box it up to be couriered.
I received the bike and saw immediately the stanchion has been scratched badly from where the cassette on the rear rear wheel had been rubbing om the fork stanchions, as the stanchion was uncovered in the box and the rear wheel with cassette uncovered placed side by side.
When I emailed the shop immediately within thirty minutes of receiving the package and noticing the damage. I supplied all the photos I had taken of packaging materials and relative positions and damage. I was eventually contacted by their staff and over the phone they apologised for their error and accepted blame and offered to find a solution to fix the problem.
The next day I call up to find out how we are proceeding and I receive an email form higher up in the company saying as Im half way around the country and bought the bike unseen I cant prove the scratches weren't there before, their staff aren't to blalme for packing it with exposed cassette on top of a stanchion. My tough luck goodbye!
HAVE THEY REALLY FORGOTTEN THAT I HAD SOMEONE PICK UP THE BIKE FROM THE SELLER AND CONFIRM THE SELLERS DESCRIPTION WAS ACCURATE AND THEN DROP IT OFF TO THEM. He isn't very bike savvy so all he knew to check for was no marks and scratches on stanchions and no cracks dents.
I have tried to be reasonable and explain how the packaging was wrong on so many levels with pictures and asked them to come to a reasonable arrangement. But the higher up manager is still refusing to enter into the conversation and admit liability ever since he did a swithcheroo from the staff called me originally, he tried to tell me that his staff did not accept liability and did not apologise for the damage and did not reassure me they would take care of this and get me riding again asap.
Am I really unable to expect redress from the shop? The real question should is, as I can actually provide a witness to the condition of the fork who physically handed it over to them in the undamaged state should I pursue the legal route and take this matter to the courts. I'm initiated discussion with legal professionals but it feels like this is taking the matter way too far over a fork!
How would be best/ethical way to move forward with this in your opinions guys?
Just for added colour how much did you pay them to wrap the bike up and hand over to the courier? i.e. not what you paid all up but what did you pay them in addition to the cost of the courier to them? It would have to be a lot to run the risk of finding yourself as the fall guy middlemen in the centre of something like this.
Op, I'm guessing you have created this account to keep your main one clear. So I'm guessing you know this thread will get messy unfortunately.
My advice? Life is too short, chalk it up to(expensive) experience and move on.
Spring is here. See if the forks hold air, remedy if not and enjoy riding the bike.
Good luck whatever decision you go with though.
Did your middleman take pics to prove the condition of the bike? Or is it just his say so?
Thos sounds like a mighty complex train of events to buy a bike, with too many potential blamees. Small claims would probably require photo evidence of undamaged condition before boxing to stand any chance of success.
Thanks all for taking the time to read that and give your opinions, all are welcome. I have open ears to all perspectives.
The collector (my agent) paid £15 to the shop to box it up.
The undamaged state is the collectors and sellers say so, the seller has his photos from the listing.
too right its complicated, it was a great deal and I knew I could secure a trustworthy agent in that part of the country and I believed in the hype of the shop who has a great reputation and had faith in them.
I accept everyone can make mistakes, which is what they actually told me yesterday, they were sorry and apologised and said they will make it right, it was a silly mistake. but then the higer ups got involved and they have completely backtracked and deny claiming liability as it was all over the phone with the shop manager and workshop manager so I have no proof now.
I actually made this account the other day cos I was looking for a new bike and I wanted to post a wanted ad, lol. so this is my only account I'm afraid on here.
Pictures for those who are intrigued
The damage to the stanchion:
https://ibb.co/nQkDsqW https://ibb.co/nQkDsqW https://ibb.co/nQkDsqW
This is how it came packed in the box with the rear wheel next to the bare stanchion with cassette resting against the stanchion
https://ibb.co/nkSmv2d
https://ibb.co/nkSmv2d https://ibb.co/nkSmv2d
This shows the indentation of the bare cassette on the foam of the down tube, and if we follow that imprinted curve of the cassette where do the rest of the teeth lie, that's right, on top of the exposed stanchion
https://ibb.co/1T7NpMc https://ibb.co/1T7NpMc https://ibb.co/1T7NpMc
For what it's worth op, you are probably totally correct in that the poor packaging caused the damage...
My reply about moving on is just addressing the reality that you are likely to lose a lot of time and incur a lot of stress and likely still be at square one with the issue.
I say this as it's a conclusion I've come to in life these days. Choose the fights you can win as it were.
I'd look at attempting to repair the forks (it likely can be done with some patience, googling and luck) and enjoy riding the bike. It'll be all the sweeter after the stress it's caused mate.
Just my holistic opinion as it were.lol
Thanks Poopscoops I get you man,
I cant waste a lot of time stressing about this, you are right. I just cant afford to waste money at the moment, It was a long and deliberate process selecting this bike.
What gets my goat and really riles me up so badly is just that the managers in the shop first were so caring considerate and helpful and wanted to fix what they admitted was their mistake, but the next day area manager/head office or whatever flipped that around on its head. Told me no one said that.
Yeah sure one of the best voted bike shops in the UK my a*rse.
Its the outright deception from someone that I thought could be trusted that stabs me deep bro, lol.
Days before I bought the bike I was in regular contact with multiple people in the shop in anticipation of my purchase and just making sure everything they needed me to do would be done to make it easy on their end.
I was so grateful to them at the time. I remember the workshop chap before I had even bought the bike once mentioning to me about artisanal coffee, so I found a coffee shop in their neighbourhood and have emailed it and was arranging to have some artisanal beans to be delivered to them as a thank you for their efforts.
Arent I a ****ing tw*t
^^No you aren't mate.
You've been unlucky though that's for sure.
Chances are that the guy/s that apologised have had a right royal chewing out from the guy you later spoke to. I bet they are almost as p****d off as you are.
Reality is, unless you can go over that guys head and perhaps find someone in the organisation that is willing to help out,out of good will more than anything.... I reckon you'll have an uphill fight unfortunately.
That said, in the morning you will likely get some other takes on the situation which might be totally different to mine and just as valid.👍
You sound like you have sound and wise advice in this matter, much appreciated. I am not here to sh*ft someone over or get more than what is my due. When they offered to replace the damaged fork I even suggested at the time they just pick up a pre-owned one from these forums, I wasn't fussy about the brand as long as it was equivalent performance and market position. I only asked for this as they brought up the offer of a replacement fork.
So what you said about finding someone higher up, is it malicious or unethical of me to mention who the shop is or who the individuals are that I am dealing with in the hope that someone can point me to someone who might be able to do something?
So far I am attempting to maintain their anonymity as I believe it is the correct thing to do but then I wonder why? I am not making spurious accusations, I am simply stating irrefutable facts and postulating the hypothetical consequences of those facts.
There are far wiser and more retailer savvy guys on here than me bud.lol
I wouldn't mention names for sure. I would also hold off mentioning the retailer too.... Though I'm willing to bet than some of the guys on here will be able to guess who they are anyway.
See what posts appear on here later. This is a very passionate and "lively" forum. You are sure to get a good cross section of views and potential advice that's for sure!
Just don't take any negative views personally. A lot of very knowledgeable guys and gals on here and some very strong personalities to match...😉
I sympathize - what a shitty situation.
Do you have any evidence of you paying the bike shop, or anything that describes what they were supposed to be doing? A receipt that says "packing of bike for transit"?
Without something like that, I would imagine that this is going to be a bit of a dead end, and so I would echo Poopscoop's advice above. If you DID have the above, I don't think it's inconceivable that you could enter a small claim - technically the goods/services they provided were not fit for purpose.
One could argue that you'd need evidence that the damage wasn't there previously, but equally you could argue that the bike shop should have flagged that the bike was damaged prior to them packing it.
I pity the guy responsible - he's likely had a massive bollocking off his boss. However, it's not an inconceivable situation that a mechanic accidentally damages a bike in the course of some low-value service. If he'd dinged the stanchion with a spanner or something whist fitting a new crank.... would the boss be adopting this same approach?
Either way - sounds like they've told you to jog-on already, I don't see a downside in naming and shaming.
I would just go ahead with a "letter before action" prior to making a fast track claim ( small claims) and see what their response is to that. Often people bluster until the prospect of court action becomes real. Letter before action costs you nothing, small claims very little. YOu have two people prepared to say they did the damage, it will cost them more to defend the claim than to off you something in recompense
There are good on line guides to making a claim and in edinburgh ( so I guess other places) a CAB unit dedicated to this sort of thing
If I were contracted to pack and ship a bike, I'd be going over it in the presence of the shipper (or his agent in this case) and noting any damage ( you know, like every single car hire place does, and like the garage where I take my car has started doing). That way if the receiver claims damage I have the shippers signature that it existed before I got it. Since they didn't do that, and they didn't pack it properly (please say you got pictures of the wheel before you took it out of the box!) I don't see how they can hope to get away with it. Get a note from the seller detailing any damage, one from the 'agent' and ask them to pony up any notes detailing the damage they have from before they packed it. When they can't produce it, tell them what you are willing to settle for.
Your leverage is a small claim, evidence of your helpers is admissible there, so you don't have no or poor evidence as some seem to imply.
It depends if you CBA going down that route. The shop manager is playing hardball (probably been there before, sounds like a shitshow).
He'll probably do **** all until claim papers arrive tho.
As mentioned it’s shitty but I’d let it roll chalk it up.
But slate the shop online at every given opportunity so folks know who they’re dealing with.
Dave at RSF can replace fork stantions if you are looking for a simpler solution...
Did you record the original conversation with the bike shop?
I have an app installed on my mobile that records calls after almost being ripped off by a internet company.
It records all calls and deletes them after after a set time. You can save important calls directly to Dropbox or other cloud based service.
As this post is only 8 hours old to date, I personally wouldn't go naming & shaming just yet; that's a card you can potentially play later down the line if you want/need to.
Options then are:
I would just go ahead with a “letter before action” prior to making a fast track claim ( small claims) and see what their response is to that
and/or
Dave at RSF can replace fork stantions if you are looking for a simpler solution…
Be polite, be reasonable, be assertive, don't be a dick, be relentless until it's clear whether or not you're getting anywhere. Then, if you've nothing to loose, name and shame is fair game.
I agree it’s shit. Whatever you do - DO NOT NAME AND SHAME! It could affect your case. Letter before action as stated already be prepared for the case and then move forward after the findings
So it looks like a well used bike from the photos and was collected by someone who isn’t bike savvy? What evidence (photographic) do you have that it wasn’t already damaged?
If I was the bike shop I would be telling you to do one, they can’t accept blame for the the condition of a used bike they didn’t supply. Much like they cannot accept blame based on yours and a mates say so! With that in mind I think you need to suck it up yourself. Personally I would always drive to collect a used bike myself. It’s never worth it nowadays in a world of cheap crap couriers, pinched kit etc. If it’s too far to drive there will always be another one in the future
Dave at RSF can replace fork stantions if you are looking for a simpler solution…
This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Think it's only £50-75 or so too.
£15 to get involved in that unholy mess of 5 parties (seller, your mate, them, courier, you) to transport a 2nd hand item that had been unseen by the final purchaser until it has passed through 3 different hands. What were they thinking? There is a reason people say pick up only on bikes - to avoid getting embroiled in this kind of thing. To put yourself in that position for the cost of a puncture repair was a very dubious decision. Especially if they are doing it for someone who live the other side of the country and it's not part of a continued relationship with a valued customer.
So it looks like a well used bike from the photos and was collected by someone who isn’t bike savvy? What evidence (photographic) do you have that it wasn’t already damaged?
If I was the bike shop I would be telling you to do one, they can’t accept blame for the the condition of a used bike they didn’t supply.
pretty much this. but if it had come through my shop I'd have pointed out all the damage prior to boxing.
From looking at the photo it's not very serious damage to the stanchion. I'd go as far as to say cosmetic only, although obviously I haven't seen it in the flesh/run a finger over it. It's also evident that it's quite a well used bike, so you shouldn't be worrying about cosmetic damage.
Yes, the shop screwed up by not packing it well enough. For £15 they evidently got someone not very experienced at boxing bikes up to do it. Would I expect them to give me a new pair of forks? No chance.
As others have said, it's just one of those things you have to suck up, try to forget about and move on.
There is a reason people say pick up only on bikes – to avoid getting embroiled in this kind of thing.
If I say pick up only I stick to that, regardless of how much a potential buyer begs and pleads. For a shop to pac the bike up for £15 !!! I bet they'll never do that again.
But personally I'd suck it up and get riding. If the forks hold air I wouldn't even bother with a fix. Ride them for a bit and see how they go 👍
Doesn't look too bad, tbh. I've sanded down worse than that and the forks have carried on happily for years.
Strange behavior by the manager though. Think I'd at least expect my £15 back. Name and shame, then move on I would say.
now i've looked at the photos of the damage, I'd not even be getting the stanchions replaced. I'd just get on with riding it and chalking it down to a poor decision to get a stranger to pack up a bike for £15.
If the forks hold air I wouldn’t even bother with a fix. Ride them for a bit and see how they go 👍
Errr, just to correct you (as I can't help it), it won't be air that they struggle to hold. Lower leg oil... may seep out and also the scratch may damage the dust seals + foam o-rings.
If any oil does seep out or you get some additional stiction, Could just get some very fine sandpaper, remove any edges and put some clear coat on the sanded bit, will last for years.
Proposal: fix/repair the stanchions as good as possible.
Important to get rid of sharp edges and stuff.
And then go on biking. Those damages hurt your sould right now. But the damage will be no problem for the fork.
One crash and the fork will have such damages. Don't see any reason why you can't use the fork for the years to come.
And yes - the whole story is sad.
But have fun und in a year you will laugh about the tiny damage.
OP. I pride myself on thinking up ridiculously complex, convoluted plans for getting stuff done.....
BUT this one you've got has SNAFU written all over it. I can't imagine why on earth the bike shop agreed to all that work and risk for 15 quid.
Yeah, seems like a lot of work & risk for £15. Probably getting on for 30 mins work by the time you've got a suitable box, disassembled the bike, stuck some (not enough) packaging around it & boxed it up.
And while it probably was the cassette that did the damage, without before pics I doubt there is much that can be done.
Personally, I'd chalk it up to experience & probably give the stanchion a very light sand to remove any burrs on the scratches before just getting on with riding it.
If there is obviously an issue with fork performance after a month or two of riding, then perhaps consider a stanchion replacement (as above).
Errr, just to correct you (as I can’t help it), it won’t be air that they struggle to hold.
Of course, back to school for me. 😳😳
Massive thank you and props to each and everyone of you who is contributing to this thread I am so grateful for all the input and advice. It is helping me come to terms with it, lol and become clearer in my head what is fair course of action and expectation.
Things have gotten a little out of hand already, my barrister has weighed in this morning and the shop are aware. Problem that is presented to the shop now is that if they claim no culpability then the liability falls on my agent who procured and delivered the bike to the shop, who of course will then proceed to seek damages from the shop for loss against him if I come after him now because he absolutely categorically maintains the fork was undamaged. phew.
I just believe people should take responsibility for their actions. its not about me getting anything, or cost to them.
In line with what some of you have said, just ride it and suck it up. I have been off the bike and not touched it at the advice of the shop manager who called up to originally apologise and accept their mistake and offer a solution, he said don't use it until we get this sorted. But now I have arranged a local bike shop to give the fork an inspection and tell me how little or how significantly this will affect the fork.
IF they say the saem just suck it up and use it man no issues there, then I uess ill just chalk it up to experience and join the camp on here that says, scratch? just suck it up and use it dude!
Thanks guys, will keep this post updated especially with the barrister and the agent now getting involved actively, keep your thoughts coming
my barrister
A barrister?
Well that escalated quickly.
I hope he/she is a QC for such a big case!
my barrister has weighed in
Things have gotten a little out of hand already
Haven't they just ... 🙄
FFS! A Barrister?? What's the bill for that going to be like ... how many brand new forks do you think you'd have been able to afford instead!
A barrister?
Well that escalated quickly.
How so? He probably needed a coffee to get through this ordeal.
Folks never ceasing to amaze, what a jolly world we live in.
I just cant afford to waste money at the moment
especially with the barrister and the agent now getting involved
Oh it might be on judge Judy 🙂 🙂
Is this a parody thread of some meme I've missed?
Apparently not, although it could produce a future meme.
Having seen the picture - I'd just be getting on with it. It's really not serious, and spending more time stressing and arguing about something so minor won't benefit you
Oh dear. Been there, done this. Considered going legal over someone selling me a broken part as a new old stock one. It cost twenty quid! It was the principal I told myself and anyone who would listen. Some serious mockery on another forum helped me to get some perspective.
Honestly those scratches look like they could possibly be polished out, or the stanchion replaced in the worst case.