[Closed] Cheap electronic shifting on the way?

I do not get the need for it (electronic shifting) at all why 'fix' summit that ain't broke.

I do not get the need for it (electronic shifting) at all why 'fix' summit that ain't broke.

Because it offers some advantages over a mechanical system.

Have you ever seen it Mark? It's bloody impressive. Set it up at first, and never have to adjust, No cable stretch etc, and also the front mech tracks across when the rear moves up and down the cassette, so no cage rub on the front if you are 2x.

I'd definitely have it if it was reasonably priced and as reliable as they say.

also the front mech tracks across when the rear moves up and down the cassette, so no cage rub on the front if you are 2x

I believe you can also have one up/down shifter control both mechs, selecting the next highest/lowest ratio automagically.

Only way Id be interested in electronic shifting is if it was wireless.
Loosing the cables is the biggy for me...and being able to control my gears form the living room while my bike is in the garage! Or swap shifters with a mate and control each others gears!! Or take control of the gears of your enemies!!!!

Have you ever seen it Mark? It's bloody impressive. Set it up at first, and never have to adjust, No cable stretch etc, and also the front mech tracks across when the rear moves up and down the cassette, so no cage rub on the front if you are 2x.

I'd definitely have it if it was reasonably priced and as reliable as they say.

^^This.
I'd have it in a heartbeat if I could justify the price tag.

A mate has Campag super record on his C59 and it's pretty damn nice to shift with - if i could ride a road bike i'd certainly have it fitted.

I followed someone with di2 on a mtb, it was impressive, my I'll be sticking with my original electric where I use my thumb to push electrons through the shifter and along the wire to the mech....
And when they go wireless give it a month before its hacked to send out random shift signals in a burst...

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
Have you ever seen it Mark? It's bloody impressive. Set it up at first, and never have to adjust, No cable stretch etc, and also the front mech tracks across when the rear moves up and down the cassette, so no cage rub on the front if you are 2x.

I'd definitely have it if it was reasonably priced and as reliable as they say.

Not sure the advantages are as great for 1x though - and I can't ever see myself having a front mech again (though do ask me again when I'm 60)

With 1x you already have sequential shifting, and I haven't adjusted mince since it went on the bike.

TBH I have never had much bother with gears going out of indexing. Possibly a smoother shift but the extra weight plus potential reliability issues ( never actually been a fan of Sram mechs). Then last but not least I am probably a bit of a luddite so I think I will be sticking to triggers and cables for the forseeable.

Having just hopped back on my xc bike back to triggers from grip shift my mashed up thumbs would probably like a couple of buttons to press....

Then last but not least I am probably a bit of a luddite so I think I will be sticking to triggers and cables for the forseeable.

Why not friction thumbies?

I'm sure there are benefits but one of the things I love about cycling is the mechanics are so simple/old tech that I can fix most things myself - whether at home or out riding, which is a great relief compared to the 100% dependency we have on so many other things these days - cars, computers, phones etc which kind of turns us all into dependent children...

It's noticeable how slow takeup of new tech is in road biking compared to MTB - it's a very different culture. Hardly anyone in my club has electric gears, carbon rims or discs. It's not an old or poor club either - largely 30 something males, with more than a smattering of Assos and Rapha and carbon frames! Just a general disinterest in new tech for the sake of it

It's noticeable how slow takeup of new tech is in road biking compared to MTB

I'm sure there are benefits but one of the things I love about cycling is the mechanics are so simple/old tech that I can fix most things myself - whether at home or out riding

You can fix a broken STI shifter?

I believe you can also have one up/down shifter control both mechs, selecting the next highest/lowest ratio automagically.

SRAM have it nailed, one trigger for up, the other for down, both for the front mech. No need for more than that.

It's not desirable to find the next sequential ratio, you'd end up taking longer to shift and have random sized gaps, and even an intelligence that prevents running the chain across the range (big/big small/small) isn't always best, roadies will knowingly go small-small on a climb so that they can up shift in one for a breakaway.

No one is forcing anyone to change, similar to suspension, disc brakes, blah blah blah.....

Lots of us like new kit and advancements in our chosen pastime, but it's generally the same old folks that moan about it.

can i have a blue peter badge for bothering to read the linked article?

looks like a prototype
is flatbar/mtb specific
could probably lose the battery bulk in some sort of trade off
has a 42 as standard

looks interesting if it gets finished - power on the left (electric)
gears on the right (electric)

No one is forcing anyone to change, similar to suspension, disc brakes, blah blah blah.....

What I don't understand is the complaints about complexity: an electronic shifter is a very simple device whereas an STI unit resembles a Swiss watch. I've never seen one repaired at the roadside, and a snapped cable would usually mean riding singlespeed...

Electronic shifting is, IMO, awesome. I was cynical, tried it on a mates bike, ordered it for my road bike very shortly after. It's not essential but it is a treat to use.

If it was cheaper I would have it on every bike I own, including my beaten up commuter, seriously, it's awesome.

More interestingly:

looks like a prototype
is flatbar/mtb specific
could probably lose the battery bulk in some sort of trade off
has a 42 as standard

Does this mean a mechanical microshift MTB groupset in the offing?

[edit] it exists and it's heavier than XT.

My main lack of interest in electronic shifting is a wishy-washy feeling that a bike is a human-powered vehicle, and so shouldn't need batteries to make it work.

I also don't have any issue with mechanical shifting: it very rarely needs adjusting, and even then it's usually just a minor tweak to the barrel adjuster that you can do whilst riding along. Most front shifters have trim positions, so cage rub can be avoided. I just don't see enough benefit to justify the faff of a battery, with the one exception of TT bikes where it enables you to shift from different positions.

Also, I find it disappointing that current electronic systems manage to make the front of a bike more messy, not less, with an extra junction box cluttering things up, the various satellite shifters being unnecessarily huge.

If it was cheaper I would have it on every bike I own, including my beaten up commuter, seriously, it's awesome.

and a snapped cable would usually mean riding singlespeed...

No I would still have either 2 or 3 gears at front or any combination of 7 to 10 on the back depending on which cable snapped.

At the moment, I believe the software only works on windows machines, I'll start taking notice when I can run it on my mac. I'm not buying a laptop just so I can work on my bike.

As with all these sort of threads: The number of people who seek to make judgements about stuff they have never actually used never ceases to amaze me.

I think the technology is brilliant but it's annoying enough forgetting to charge my garmin or getting to the bike to find you have a flat tyre. The thought of getting ready to go for a ride and finding that my gears are out of juice, would probably push me over the edge 😆

Why not dynamo powered? Then no need to worry about batteries.

I'm a convert on the road. It feels better. Only in the same way that Dura ace feels better than Tiagra. Both still work.

Find it better with cold, gloved hands. Off road it would be good to see the shift buttons positioned to make control even better on the bars (not using your thumb to shift).

I'd use it off road if it was cheaper. Things rarely break on the road bike but do off road. I wince when I see people doing CX on Di2. Mech breakages are so common in the claggy races that I keep a spare one in - when not if.

think its great to see smaller companies outflanking
the big boys

praxis and sunrace have made going 11 speed look pointless now

cheap chinese smartphones are as good as 6x the price iphones, afterall

As with all these sort of threads: The number of people who seek to make judgements about stuff they have never actually used never ceases to amaze me

No I would still have either 2 or 3 gears at front or any combination of 7 to 10 on the back depending on which cable snapped.

Depends if you have multiple chainrings, but yes, a broken rear cable would allow you a 2 speed on most road bikes. Not really an argument against electronic, is it?

Anyway, I'll leave you to your down tube friction shifters and clips and straps.

Depends on why you are spending the money too. People made comments about 29ers and discs in the same way.

Di2 (and Discs/29ers) are better in my opinion. Not massively so, in that I wouldn't go and sell my existing bike to change setup but if I was in the market for a new bike they would certainly factor heavily in the decision as they are better.

ransos - Member

What I don't understand is the complaints about complexity: an electronic shifter is a very simple device whereas an STI unit resembles a Swiss watch. I've never seen one repaired at the roadside, and a snapped cable would usually mean riding singlespeed...

That's a very good point ransos and not one I had considered before. STI indexing does wear over time requiring relatively expensive replacement of just the levers at least.

It's more to fail. Electronics that can break down with the abuse mountain bikes get. Batteries that need charging before you can ride. Batteries that get knackered over time and need replacing. If wired then a tree branch snagging exposed wire and stuffed, whereas you might be able to bodge a repair with a regular cable or may even be carrying a spare cable or you can fix it in the car park. Expensive mech to wreck when things break, mech bends or you crash.

I'd also be dubious about shifting responsiveness pressing buttons. Any lag?

If very lightweight (doubt it with those batteries) and you're doing xc races with little to no danger of snagging the mech or wires on rocks/branches/debris/etc, maybe. For me it's not solving anything and just holds gimmick factor.

So there is something wrong with me making a judgement on spending £600 or thereabouts to make something a little bit easier/nicer just because I haven't tried it. I don't think I need to try it to make up my mind about that it is hardly gonna help my riding in the way dropper posts, disc brakes and suspension can help all of which can be had a lot cheaper than 'nicer/easier shifting' shifting is not all that hard as it is.

It's not £600 though is it, read the article, it's $425, so about £300. Whether or not it's worth it as an upgrade, but as an outright purchase on a new bike that's potentially very good value. Depending on margins, distribution etc, it could be cheaper than a dropper post!

That's a very good point ransos and not one I had considered before. STI indexing does wear over time requiring relatively expensive replacement of just the levers at least.

It's more to fail. Electronics that can break down with the abuse mountain bikes get.

Batteries that need charging before you can ride. Batteries that get knackered over time and need replacing.

STI's also spontaneously break. It's hard to see how you could break 2 microswitches in the same way (as long as they're decent quality and waterproofed). Over the years I've ripped paddles off more shiftes than I remember in crashes, and had shifters just fall apart just with age and accumulated abuse. How is a littlebox of tiny springs and cogs more apropriate for [i]"the abuse mountain bikes get."[/i]?

I have disassembled and rebuilt a broken STI that decided to disintegrate at the roadside. And experience bad enough to make me want to go Di2 even in the summer.

And the batteries (2x AA in this case), last 1000km, that's a long month even if you commute and only ever ride 1 bike.

If wired then a tree branch snagging exposed wire and stuffed, whereas you might be able to bodge a repair with a regular cable or may even be carrying a spare cable or you can fix it in the car park.

Carry a spare cable in either case?

Expensive mech to wreck when things break, mech bends or you crash.

I'd also be dubious about shifting responsiveness pressing buttons. Any lag?

If very lightweight (doubt it with those batteries)

and you're doing xc races with little to no danger of snagging the mech or wires on rocks/branches/debris/etc, maybe. For me it's not solving anything and just holds gimmick factor.

For mountain biking most of us are 1x so the benefits from nice front shifting or complicated front/rear combos are much less.

I don't think I've adjusted my cable for more than a year.
When I did it was a twiddle of the barrel while riding.
I cant recall my (XT) shifters been clunky, slow or in need of improvement.
If for some rear reason I break a shifter or mech, mechanical ones will be much cheaper.
I've never worn out a shifter, but if I did a mechanical one would be cheaper.

I don't see them taking off for mountain biking. Sure, they will be fitted to top end bikes, but I cant see normal riders benefiting.

It's less to fail. Cables that can stick or corrode with the abuse mountain bikes get. Cable systems that need regular cleaning before you can ride. Springs and shifters that get knackered over time and need replacing. If cabled then a tree branch snagging exposed cable and stuffed. Expensive mech to wreck when things break, mech bends or you crash.

Cables are also much slower than electric shifting.

If very lightweight (doubt it with those massive shifters) and you're doing xc races with little to no danger of snagging the mech or cables on rocks/branches/debris/etc, maybe. For me keeping using cables is inconvenient and just holds luddite factor.

FTFY

If you don't want it don't get it, don't make up facts to justify it though. It's just an opinion.

No facts in that, just musing and yes opinion.

I still hold that having to make sure everything is charged before a ride would be buttload of hassle. Spur of the moment ride, damn, forgot to charge (and I am very likely to forget).

Also worth noting the E-derailure has a "crash" mode where the motor (and geartrain) are disconnected from the parallelogram in the event of a big impact. (not something the mechanical mechs have, hence the hanger tends to get bent instead........)

And whilst you still have to have a wire to link (and power) the derailure, that wire has a much larger freedom in terms of routing, because it doesn't care about tight bend radii or straight lines etc

I still hold that having to make sure everything is charged before a ride would be buttload of hassle. Spur of the moment ride, damn, forgot to charge (and I am very likely to forget).

Doesn't happen (to me anyway) The battery hardly ever needs charging. Once every copule of months at the very most. If you need to charge more than that, the amount of riding you must be doing means that a mechanical drive train would need a load of TLC= more faff than charging a battery

Speaking as somebody who loves riding my bike but hates maintaining it this seems right up my alley for the road bike. Like a lot of other things though I'll probably "save" it for much later on when it's cheaper and more prevalent. Charging stuff up doesn't bother me at all, I'd be happy to lose the chore of changing cables and indexing gears.

[quote=thisisnotaspoon]DI2 is lighter than mechanical in the road groupsets

Actually I don't think this is true though they are very close, see here: http://www.thebikelane.com.au/2015/06/2015-road-groupset-weights/

Got Di2 and discs on the road bike and love it. You get loads of warning if the batterys going flat. You press and hold the shift lever and the lights on the box tell you how much battery is left. Do that after a ride and you know if it needs a charge. If it does go, the front mech stops working first so you get warning and then the rear mech will only shift up so you can limp back. (this happened once when i first got it)
Current 29er is 1x10 which isnt ideal but if i had the money id have a 2x11 xtr Di2 set up to to shift sequentially on one shifter. Best of both worlds.