I’ll try and keep this short - promise!
My primary bike is a self-built Privateer 141 29er which I’ve had for just over 2 years and love - to the point where I keep it for ‘summer’ use only and away trips. I also have a 2017 Whyte T130rs which I’ve had since new. This has by default become my winter workhorse - I need to keep it running well but I’m far less precious about this one. It’s had multiple frame bearing changes through its life but it’s got to the point where there’s almost always constant play somewhere…I think that through not changing bearings at some point there’s been that much movement that I’ve ovalised the frame where a bearing sits - not the best description admittedly.
I’m wondering if I’m better swapping the frame out for something else where I can move all my existing parts over easily - Pikes 1 1/8th steerer, OneUp dropper, Hope V4s and Shim drivetrain. Still needs to be 27.5 as I’m not changing the wheels and fork to go 29er for a winter hack. Oranges have few bearings to have to maintain, and whereas I love the idea of a hardtail, I couldn’t ride one these days.
Thoughts, tips and pointers welcome!
It's eminently do able but you need to be very careful that the frame you're moving to will fit all the old parts...or it might get unexpectedly expensive - as you say for a 'winter hack' build
Are you sure your Whyte has ovalised bearing mounts though and this isn't just an excuse for a new frame? (Fine if it is!)
Reason why I ask is that I assume if you're staying 27.5 on old parts you want to save money and would be going second hand on the frame. If so, then there's an element of risk in that as unless you're careful. E.g. You buy the frame and build it up only to discover it also needs bearings, or a shock service or whatever. Again this could easily result in unexpected expense that could have been either as aved by sticking on the Whyte, or put towards a much better bike.
Personally, I'd probably use this as an excuse to upgrade to a bike I actually wanted rather than scrimping, taking risks, possibly spending more than I thought to do a 'sort of' upgrade for something which (by what you've said) won't really be your ideal bike anyway.
Edit: Ps have you looked at how a new bike on c2w would stack up cost wise, while you've still got the chance to take advantage of it? Obviously I assume you'd be commuting on it every day lol
@el_b - yes, it’s def a change on a tightarse budget sticking with old 27.5 parts. I know it won’t be ideal, but this bike doesn’t feel like my 141 anyway. Was thinking Orange as there’s only one set of bearings. It’ll be mostly local riding in less than ideal conditions - when we have the occasional nice day or trip away the 141 will make an appearance. Where’s the best place to pick up a decent frame anyway?
I love an Orange and you should be able to pick up a 27.5 4, 5 or Alpine (depending on travel) for not silly money. Find one with a decent shock and they don't give up much against multi pivot bikes (I have both). They often come up on the Orange website heavily discounted too. Could be worth giving them a ring to see what's kicking around the factory?
Thanks StuE
That sort of thing but a bit more travel and as I’m 6’ that would prob be too small
What about the orange switch 6 frames they have for sale?
Keep it original fork and wheel and gain. A slightly lower bb, steeper head angle for single track whizzing or bump your fork travel+ new cheap front 29"?
https://orangebikes.com/collections/factory-bikes
https://orangebikes.com/products/mk1-switch-6-frame-with-fox-performance-shock-and-hope-headset
OP here.
I’ve found a 2022 Orange 5 Evo frame for a good price - everything should move over from the Whyte just fine - in theory! No cracks on frame - just thinking of reasons not to do this frame swap. Any issues with this frame or the Fox DPX2 worth knowing at this stage? Cheers
Why not just ride the bike you like all year round and accept a bit more maintenance?
@joshvegas - I have issues with play almost constantly. Even when the bearings are replaced the play returns quickly
Surely the default winter hack bike to be used in all weather & neglected is a hardtail, preferably a steel one.
@ceept - you’re right, but I don’t think after 25 years of riding a FS my body will hold up to one after multiple injuries
@ceept - you’re right, but I don’t think after 25 years of riding a FS my body will hold up to one after multiple injuries
For the price of a used frame, try it. You might love it. It also makes boring trails interesting again.
Our weekly ride/meetup generally consists of a bunch of parents escaping school duty & is often almost all steel hardtails (mainly genesis). The nice bikes get left at home as it is the cost effective way to ride all year round.
ive got the vast majority of an Orange five 29 i need to bring up the courage to sell.
XL Frame, Non boost 150mm Pikes, 29er hope wheelset. Ive broken it down to sell as bits, and in the process found that the rear mech is on its last legs. The shock needs replacing, its had 3 or 4 services in its life and it doesnt hold air for a full ride, currently. I suspect a new shock might be cheaper than a service to replace air sealing surfaces again
one of these: https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspension-bikes/orange-five-29-in-the-studio
in Apple green
The shock needs replacing, its had 3 or 4 services in its life and it doesnt hold air for a full ride, currently. I suspect a new shock might be cheaper than a service to replace air sealing surfaces again
Sell the frame without shock, it'll probably be a pre-metric size so the buyer can pick a used one up cheap.
I've ridden exclusively Orange full suspension bikes for the last 16 years as my main bike. They get used, they don't get an awful lot of love but I've never replaced a single suspension component/bearing on the frames despite using them year round. Its why I've just bought another...
You know what requires an absolute minimum of Pivot Bearings and Shock servicing during winter Right?
Is a HT absolutely out of the question?
You can currently pick up a Sonder Transmitter Frame for about the same price as a posh Bearing kit and a shock service...
Forgive me if I missed the bit where you said it has to be a bouncy bike...
OP here.
I’ve found a 2022 Orange 5 Evo frame for a good price - everything should move over from the Whyte just fine - in theory! No cracks on frame - just thinking of reasons not to do this frame swap. Any issues with this frame or the Fox DPX2 worth knowing at this stage? Cheers
Should be spot on should that. Late enough to be past the cracking drop out issue and not a base shock so all good.
I’ve found a 2022 Orange 5 Evo frame for a good price - everything should move over from the Whyte just fine - in theory! No cracks on frame - just thinking of reasons not to do this frame swap. Any issues with this frame or the Fox DPX2 worth knowing at this stage? Cheers
There's a specific era where basically every Orange with the newer forged dropouts had a potential cracking issue at the dropout join, some more some less, but I'm <reasonably> sure this is after it? Probably like 2018-2021?
My 2020 was in the bad phase but apparently they had a revised swingarm out for it later so I don't think it was a model year thing. (sorry I'm "apparently"ing there because I could never figure out what actually changed, the revised arms looked identical from the outside for whatever's that worth. I don't think it was a model year thing, which suggests a small part revision or even just a process fix.)
Worth having a dig and see if you can find out though, I personally wouldn't buy a bike from that actual period, I had major regrets for obvious reasons, but first I'd need to find out what period it was for sure. My 2020 was in it.
The cracking issues were mainly 2016-19 with no doubt a bit either side so 2022 should be fine. My old 2020 Stage 5 is still going strong with it's current owner.
I’ve seen a vid and pics of the frame - all looks ok but there’s part of me that feels like I should inspect it before buying. Problem is that it’s a 7 hr round trip! Go and see or get it sent?
Y'see this is the thing. How much is your time worth?
Personally I'm not sure I could stomach a 7hr round trip for a £300 frame. How much fuel cost would it be, even?
If set on second hand then I'd take the risk on a £300 frame...but it's always going to be a risk...
Get it sent. You can always send it back if there's a problem, which there most likely won't be.
+1 for a winter HT
You won't be hitting anything as hard in the slop, you'll learn new line choices and there's something fulfilling about taking the HT out.
AND a modern HT might surprise you as to how much better they are than back in the day.
That's coming from a 54yr old ebike rider (have never not had a HT of some description though)
@TheArtist - I love the idea of a HT - since I had one I’ve broken 2 collarbones (one very badly in June this year - plated and screwed and not yet filled healed) and ruptured an Achilles - pretty sure my body will prefer a FS 🤭
Just ride your 141 and get the pivots done in spring
I’m a FS or rigid guy now. So I’m with the OP. For me it’s a touch of knee cartilage damage. It doesn’t like impacts
If I were you, the statement would go:
”My primary bike is a self-built Privateer 141 29er which I’ve had for just over 2 years and love - to the point…”
…that I ride it all the time!
It’s a tough alloy frame made for UK conditions (I know loads of people with them, they’re a local brand).
I’m surprised your Whyte has gone through so many bearings. Do you wash it a lot? (Or even jet wash it?!) I’ve hardly had any bearings changed in my full-sus which I’ve had since 2018 and I use it in all weathers - but the only time I wash it is when it has to go to the bike shop, possibly less than once a year.
CGG…primary bike = fave bike I want to keep nice as long as possible. The Whyte had prob had a few too many Worx washes TBF - a used frame is relatively inexpensive - moving all the kit I have anyway from one frame to another is way extending the life of one bike (with more updated frame) and keeping the other ‘primary’ bike better for longer. Loads of my riding buddies run 2 bikes.
I get running two bikes, I do that. But I don’t have a nice bike and a less nice bike because it would annoy me to be on the latter! (Used to have full-sus and hardtail, now have e-FS and singlespeed hardtail).
But I don’t think about keeping bikes “nice”. They’re working well or need servicing (or dead).
Cotic BeFe.
Big tires 😉
I get running two bikes, I do that. But I don’t have a nice bike and a less nice bike because it would annoy me to be on the latter! (Used to have full-sus and hardtail, now have e-FS and singlespeed hardtail).
But I don’t think about keeping bikes “nice”. They’re working well or need servicing (or dead).
I've got a load of bikes and have never previously not used one in winter. Until now - my Stanton FS Ti won't be getting used in the slop, that'll be the duty of the Ragley HT. I do know other people that have winter HT's too
Personally, I have bikes i ride more in summer and less in winter, and vice versa.
This isn't particularly to ' keep them nice' though (which as above is a bit of a waste of a good bike and possibly a bit pointless)
Rather, it's because the type of riding I like to do in the winter changes.
Summer is about doing as much enduro shredding and long trail rides as possible. That gets less fun in the winter so I go towards gravel, singlespeed and may e a bit of road
“Personally, I have bikes i ride more in summer and less in winter, and vice versa.”
A friend of mine just put his 141 away (for our local rides) and got out his rigid titanium singlespeed for the winter, because in the winter there’s more XC, less jumping and the speeds are lower in the wet and mud. But they’re two different things that suit the seasonal riding changes, not both mid travel geared full-sus bikes.
I don't get this winter bringing about a change in riding stuff. I ride all the same stuff I do the rest of the year unless its really, really sloppy in which case I'll use the gravel bike or something and leave the proper trails to have a rest but thats pretty rare. For off-road though, still the same trails with the same cafe/breakfast stops.
"I don't get this winter bringing about a change in riding stuff. I ride all the same stuff I do the rest of the year unless its really, really sloppy"
I think it depends a lot on both mindset and the dirt/weather where you live. I often take a perverse delight in stupidly muddy rides where a trail that is usually pretty easy becomes hard to ride, let alone generate any degree of flow. It's not so bad when it's really really sloppy here, the hardest conditions are when its raining on fairly dry trails (so many greasy diagonal roots plus so many trees to hit), or when it's muddy but not wet enough and the clay becomes like peanut butter, clogging everything up and/or giving zero grip so you can't even pedal up the hills or make any turns downhill.
I don't get this winter bringing about a change in riding stuff. I ride all the same stuff I do the rest of the year unless its really, really sloppy
I guess it depends on your local trails ...
For me, the immediate local trails (pockets of woodland in and around NW Leeds) are just techy/woodsy/XC - nothing steep/enduro. They hold up reasonably well through the year. Generally, they get ridden through the year on a HT (for me), as no real need for a 'big bike'.
A bit further afield, there's a couple of moorsy or woodsy steep hillsides with some unofficial enduro-y lines, which don't handle the rain all that well so become muddy rutty messes. Aside from being less enjoyable to ride, they are also slightly sensitive/controversial in terms of attitudes of other people using the outdoors, so from that POV, plus the trail erosion POV, it's a bit of a dick-move to 'ride as normal' during the wetter months.
So, for me, I do tend to adjust what and where I ride during the winter (more HT, SS, Gravel) according to the conditions.
The OP sounds like a classic 'HT for winter' kind of case, but given health conditions, a 'winter FS' is his bike of choice, and it does make sense to me to upgrade the frame relatively inexpensively.