Chain Waxers - Gather!

Putoline'd my commuter following it's annual clean at the weekend as a bit of an experiment.  Really interested to see how it goes.  Was very fed up of the horrible black gunk that accumulated on it using oil based lubes (Muc Off/Green Oil/Peatys) and hope that the waxy black gunk will be a bit more resilient and less messy.

I'm also trying the cold weather Squirt on the MTB for winter - it seems  a bit stickier than the normal stuff and has picked up a bit of crap but it's still pretty quiet. Not sure whether to switch to Putoline for the new chain/cassette I'll be putting on for summer, or stick with Squirt.  Decisions, decisions.

Was very fed up of the horrible black gunk that accumulated on it using oil based lubes

IME Putoline can do much the same but running chain through a rag that's been sprayed with GT85 after the initial waxing (and then every now & then) cleans off the thick of the cosmetic gunk on the chain plates without affecting longevity.  I do think Puto is likely ther best winter "wax"

That video got me thinking. What about adding something like Bilt Hamber Dynax-UC https://bilthamber.com/product/dynax-uc/   Which is a long term anti-corrosion wax ??

I use Bilt Hamber stuff for cleaning the car and all their stuff seems to work really well.

Hmm, interesting thought..

And what the trade off is.  I’m guessing there’s no such thing as a free (or £25!) lunch otherwise why not just make them part of the base wax?

I got the impression from their promo vid that you trade off some speed / friction loss by using the endurance chip and conversely lose some wax longevity by using the speed chip. I can't imagine the average STWer is going to bothered about losing a few watts for longer intervals between waxing.

Was very fed up of the horrible black gunk that accumulated on it using oil based lubes

IME Putoline can do much the same

Sort of but not quite, in my experience.  Running a commuter and re-oiling it regularly you get absolutely horrible black gunk everywhere, and it ends up on your rims and bike and front mech, everywhere, and is an absolute bastard to remove unless you've got a weekly maintenance routine - and who wants one of those?

With Putoline the excess gathers on the chain and a little on the cassette/chainrings, but it's quite hard and stays where it is.  It doesn't grow and it doesn't get everywhere.  And as said above you can remove it with a vigorous rub down with WD40 after it's cooled and before you fit it. If you do this, it remains clean and lubed for months.

Adding Synergetic to a hot wax is an interesting idea but expensive and irreversible!

Need to watch that video, wonder what proportions are recommended...

So, any further feedback on using the Silca Endurance Chip then? 

Posted by: BadlyWiredDog

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I can't imagine the average STWer is going to bothered about losing a few watts for longer intervals between waxing.

Losing a few what's?

I probably last rode waxed my bike in September 🙄 

Well, I've now bought one having shuddered at the price but hoping it really will do what it says.  

I'll let you know in a few months time 😉 

Edit: this will be for the next new chain as my old pot of glfwax has now got too old/contaminated to be of much use.  I didn't find that did at well in wet weather but was fine for the road bike and also great for when the sandy-ish trails here would otherwise create a grinding paste on a lubed chain in any weather.

Mine's had the Endurance Chip in from the start....I'd really hate to imagine what the endurance would be like without the chip.  

My feedback would be - I think it's great on the MTB and the Gravel bike, but it simply doesn't last on the commuter.  Even with the occasional topup using the drip wax, I get at most 400km (in decent weather) out of it and by that point, it feels/sounds bare. At this stage it also offers NO protection from the elements.  I routinely ride early morning and mid evening so it's usually colder and damp - even keeping the bike in the house and wiping the chain wen i get back, at the 350-400km point, it will be rusting by the morning.  In bad weather - max 300km and that's wiping the chain and drip wax after the wet ride(s) in the evening.

So, would I go back?  ...maybe on the commuter, but probably not on the others.  

Oh and for those starting out - I'd get the freshly waxed chain onto the bike whilst its still a little warm - it saves 5-10km of crappy shifting and occasional chain slips on the smaller cogs.  

Posted by: Daffy

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My feedback would be - I think it's great on the MTB and the Gravel bike, but it simply doesn't last on the commuter. 

Cheers for that. I'd sort of expected it to be the other way round. Are you just re-waxing more frequently on mtb/gravel or is it more that you're doing more dry miles on those compared to the commuter? 

I don't mean to be negative about chain waxing, I'll keep doing it on my summer road bike, but Silca Synergetic definitely has me convinced for everything else. I thought I might finish off my bottle of Fenwick's Professional before changing lube on my summer gravel bike but after topping up a previous application then doing 140km of 'dry above/wet below' gravel, it had worn off long before the end. Synergetic has lasted me 100km of sopping wet muddy riding easily this winter, and it runs cleaner than anything but the driest wax (waaaaaay cleaner than Putoline and probably also cleaner than Squirt or Smoove, in my experience anyway), also very smooth and very quiet.

I'm guessing the more solid the lubricant, the more prone it is to physically being chipped or flaked off by solid contaminants? Seems to explain why I get much worse results off-road than on-road anyway...

Cheers for that. I'd sort of expected it to be the other way round. Are you just re-waxing more frequently on mtb/gravel or is it more that you're doing more dry miles on those compared to the commuter? 

I thinks it’s just that normally, on the MTB or Gravel bike at this time of year, I’d use a wet lube and one muddy ride later and it would be   Filthy.  Now, with the wax, I just run the hose over it, it all drops off and the chain is wiped dry and allowed to dry indoors. 

The commuter has to commute in to work in the rain/salt/crap for over an hour and then sit there, damp for 10h and then do it again.  It just doesn’t seem to work well, duration wise.

My Yeti has now done ~150km on the first wax and it still looks and feels great, this despite being absolutely covered in mud and muck each and every time it’s been out for a 35km ride.  I’ve not yet had to top this wax up with the drip.  

I’m finding the Silca with an Endurance chip is waaay more durable than MSW and GLF waxes. It  does take 20-30 mins to break in even if the chain has been dragged over a broom handle to “break” the links but shifting is smooth and quiet after that. I’m tempted to add a Speed Chip in as well to see if I get the best of both worlds - Simon Cowell Josh says you can do that so…

I’m wax curious but threads like this scare the bejesus out of me. I find it a struggle some weeks to fit in a ride let alone become a wax wizard!

This is the commuter chain after maybe 250km of mostly dry, but cold and damp miles.  It did lightly rain on one 60km commute.

Posted by: letmetalktomark

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I’m wax curious but threads like this scare the bejesus out of me. I find it a struggle some weeks to fit in a ride let alone become a wax wizard!

To be honest, the reality is mostly straightforward. The most irksome bit is properly degreasing a new chain, but the Ceramic Speed Stuff does it really quickly and easily. Then you heat some wax in a slow cooker, immerse the chain in it using an old bent coathanger or similar, leave it in there for a bit to heat up, swish about in the molten wax, then take it out, hang it up to dry and put it back on the bike. 

You can make it more complicated than that, but it doesn't really seem to offer much additional benefit tbh. It's a bit like making coffee. With decent beans and some sort of half-decent machine you can make good coffee. Or you can go down a wormhole of endless weighing shots, doing weird stuff with pre-calibrated tampers, using special water etc, in which case you may get slightly better coffee. Some people like all the messing about for its own sake, I think. 

Yeah I've been using MSW (not topping it up with any drip wax either) for almost 2 years now and it's great. I checked my chain wear after a year (this is MTB btw) and it still hadn't got to the point where it needed replacing. I was amazed.

It's also so unbelievably satisfying to never have to clean all the gunk off a drivetrain ever again. I have saved so much time not having to do that, compared to popping the chain off and rewaxing it every now and then.

I'm going to try a drip wax on my xc bike this year. It's got a nearly new (100km) xtr chain on it that needs a deep clean. In the spirit of trying things before spending loads I want to avoid having to buy more products. What I do have is some bilt hamber surfex hd degreaser. It'll shift manky engine oil so think it'll be ideal for removing what's left of the factory grease. Has anyone tried it and what sort of concentration did you use. I have a small unheated ultrasonic cleaner to use as well.

Posted by: tetrode

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Yeah I've been using MSW (not topping it up with any drip wax either) for almost 2 years now and it's great

Am I misreading? - you've not rewaxed AT ALL for 2 years?

How do you find the MSW in the wet? I got fed up with reapplying it after every wet ride - that said topping up with Silca Super Secret made a big difference but then I decided to try the Silca full wax treatment with an Endurance chip in and so far it outperforms the MSW (in terms of longevity) many times over in dry conditions - not done much wet riding with it yet but initial impressions are positive… according to Strava I’ve done 11000 km across two chains on rotation and neither are showing any signs of wear whatsoever. 

After going down a zfc rabbit hole I think I'm actually going to try MSW. I assume the most basic of basic slow cooker will be fine? 

Still interested to know if surfex hd is any good here.

Cheapo £15 small 1l job will do. It will take 30-45 mins to heat up but I just put the chain on a bit of coat hanger and sit it on top of the wax and then come back and swish it about after 45 mins or so then turn the cooker off and leave the chain in for 15 mins while it cools a bit then hang up above the pot to fully cool. 

I've been massively underwhelmed with the Silca Super Secret, it seems to almost have a polarised reaction to the chain and sort of just drips through and on to the floor, like very expensive water off a duck's back! 🤣 

Interesting to hear Silca outlasts MSW, I was initially impressed with MSW but after a couple of rides limping home with no wax left on the chain I gave up on it.

There shouldn't be enough on SSS to drip onto the floor.  You need only a tiny (like a 1/4pea) sized blob on each roller and then gently roll the chain.  I get...maybe 2 little drips across a 116l chain.  

Posted by: nixie

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After going down a zfc rabbit hole I think I'm actually going to try MSW. I assume the most basic of basic slow cooker will be fine? 

Yes, that's what I have, 15 quid or so. It's also handy to have some sort of thermometer so you know roughly what temperature the wax is at. We had one of those forehead ones sat around post-pandemic, so it's been repurposed for chain-waxing. I do the Silca thing of heating to around 95˚C swishing the chain around for a bit, switching off, letting the temperature drop to 75˚-ish, then removing the chain. 

The MSW chain swisher is a bit of an extravagance - a bent wired coat hanger does basically the same thing - but it's a nice thing to use.

I guess the mad expensive Silca wax heater would be nice, but also mad expensive.

I've been using MSW for a couple of years now and it's great in the dry, but as above, less durable in wetter conditions ime. I've just taken the plunge with Silca wax and the Endurance Chip, too early to say as I've only done one chain, but promising so far. But as with all things Silca, not cheap. 

My other tip is to avoid hollow-pin chains. I have just one of the things and the wax basically fills the pins, solidifies then comes out as you're riding wasting a surprising amount of wax. I now just poke it out with a small size allen key and stick it back in the wax pot before re-fitting the chain to the bike, but it's a pain in the butt 🙁 

Posted by: Daffy

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There shouldn't be enough on SSS to drip onto the floor.  You need only a tiny (like a 1/4pea) sized blob on each roller and then gently roll the chain.  I get...maybe 2 little drips across a 116l chain.  

Yeah, I'm applying as small a drop as the bottle allows, but haven't tried rolling the chain, will give it a go 👍 

Posted by: scaredypants

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Posted by: tetrode

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Yeah I've been using MSW (not topping it up with any drip wax either) for almost 2 years now and it's great

Am I misreading? - you've not rewaxed AT ALL for 2 years?

Yes you're misreading. I don't use any drip wax to top it up. I take my chain off and reapply wax in my slow cooker as and when it needs it. More often in winter/wet conditions but it's still significantly faster than trying to keep a muddy wet lubed drivetrain clean.

Posted by: BadlyWiredDog

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It's also handy to have some sort of thermometer so you know roughly what temperature the wax is at.

Got a non-contact one I had for an older pizza oven. Think that should do the job there.

Posted by: BadlyWiredDog

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My other tip is to avoid hollow-pin chains. I have just one of the things and the wax basically fills the pins

The two chains I want to use it on most are hollow pin. Thanks for the heads up on this, I'll remember to do the poking out thing.

Posted by: BadlyWiredDog

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less durable in wetter conditions ime

Be interesting to see how it gets on with CX! I think I'd take rewaxing after every race if it lasted the duration.

10:1 Surfex HD, that went much dark much quicker than I expected and a lot darker than I expected given the chain looked quite clean from the outside!

Is the Silca "strip chip" suitable for preparing a used chain for waxing? Or is it just for factory grease removal?

3 runs of surfex hd cleaned the chain (+1 for luck and 2 IPA rinses). Reused the fluid on the oily car engine 😜. Chain now nicely waxed.

They say the strip chip is only for new chains because they've tested it with the grease that major chain manufacturers use.

Having said that, they also say you can put the Silca oil lube in the wax for winter, then return it to normal with a strip chip so clearly it works with some oils.

Zero Friction Cycling is taking votes on their 3 minute YouTube video about what lube to check next.

Putoline is on his list so with enough votes STW could maybe get that to the top of the list.

I emailed Adam about Putoline last month and he said it wasn’t on their radar down under but he would add it to the list, which he mentioned was rather long.  So it’s great to see we have some sort of chance to influence it. 

So thanks for that Onzadog.

Posted by: molgrips

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If you do this, it remains clean and lubed for months.

Have to say I never managed to get the results with putoline that others talked about. I did use a mini deep fat fryer, and I subsequently read that apparently you can over-cook putoline if it gets too hot, so I wonder if that's what I did. I've been trying Squirt, and it's good, clean, but doesn't last long faced with North Tyneside's finest filth - gritty, wet, sloppy muddy stuff et al. 

Did a wet ride with the Silca +1 Endurance chip blend and not a hint of any noise or indeed rust so looks promising…

Yeah, I think I might have over cooked my Putoline. There's not much in the way of instruction for it.

If Adam does test it, it will be really interesting to see how it compares to the best of the rest.

Did a wet ride with the Silca +1 Endurance chip blend and not a hint of any noise or indeed rust so looks promising…

I get around 150-180km of wet riding before it starts to sound like its going to need redone.  If i SSCL the chain at around 110km, it's good to about 200-250km and then again, needs redone with SSCL.  In these conditions, it will need completely redone at 300km.  These are cold (0 deg and below) temps on main a/b commuter roads and unnamed country lanes, so will have been gritted and/or are filthy.  

200km on the brand new 12sp chain on the Yeti and still not needed a thing despite all of those 5-6 rides being a mudfest.  All these rides were 6-7degrees+ and sunny.