[Closed] Can you guess this **** trail centre

No hora I was in deepest wales running around mountains...with a strange beard!!

Surely you go out riding and go different places for a variety of terrains and obstacles. Pebbles are Cannock, wyre forest mud, kinver is sandy, Hopton castle is full of roots but it's not something to moan about is it you ride the terrain an push yourself on that terrain. You don't go somewhere different expecting the same thing. Otherwise why bother. If you can't ride pebbles fast keep going an practice on them. But MTB as there called are made for all terrains so get on an ride them all. Just my opinion

You don't go somewhere different expecting the same thing. Otherwise why bother.

Well put

Im afraid I have to agree with Hora here, been over a fair few times and always come away rather disappointed and I hate those blessed pebbles. I generally always chose to ride either local mud fest of wyre forest or if I have the time I ride elsewhere further affield. I've also been shown bits and bobs by local people off piste too and always came away rather disappointed but thats because I prefer other types of trails where its my skill that limits me and not the surfacing. If we all liked the same sorta trails it'd be a rather dull place tho!

I prefer other types of trails where its my skill that limits me and not the surfacing

'Eh,surely that amounts to the same thing.......

I ride on the Chase most days and love it. No two days ever feel the same. Chase Trails have done a fantastic job with the materials available, it does however takes years of experience to ride the pebbles properly though having a 29er helps!

it does however takes years of experience to ride the pebbles properly

Really?

This thread continues to baffle me. I imagine that next time I ride at Cannock I will be thinking about this thread and will crash constantly rather than riding it without noticing it was particularly pebbly/slippery. I'll be like a drunk trying too hard to walk in a straight line 😆

I'm guessing not really,really..........err really.......... 😯

Golf chick it is your skill that limits you at Cannock. You lack the skill of being able to ride pebbles fast. That's not a dig at you. I lack the skill to jump massive doubles but I'm not going to moan that they are there I'm just going to keep at it and eventually either land them or give up. But what I
Trying to say is it's never terrain limiting you but your lack of skill at riding that terrain

Awesome you need skill to ride Cannock 😆

Some trails you need skill to ride. Some trails are easy to ride but hard to ride really fast. Some people never go fast so they never realise this 🙂

Of course you do in a sense if you lack the skill to ride a bike then you would struggle

Skill is probably the wrong word ability is suited better I think

Cannock when it's damp is certainly a slippery beast…….

That five-ways fire road is easily avoided with some local help…..handbags is what my mate call it 😉

Don't recall those cobbles on the upper or lower cliff though…..

MTFU etc

I had a lovely crash on the pebbles on 'Let Loose' yesterday. I haven't crashed for ages so it was nice to get back into it.

Molgrips summarised it nicely up there ^

I've neither Nick Craig's fitness, nor Chris Akrigg's skill, but on every visit I've had to Cannock I've caught and overtook nearly every rider I've seen. There are tight lines, awkward berms, sections that reward smooth riding and momentum and of course these mythical pebbles. Do you need skill to ride Cannock? Of course you do. You can roll most of it with relatively basic skills, but you'll have more fun riding it faster and harder. I do, and I've still got a lot to learn....that's what keeps me going back.

And that's one of the points I've always believed in since FtD was completed as a full loop. You can ride the whole trail at whatever pace you fancy. Some ride it steadily and claim that it's too easy etc but if you try to go as fast as you can it takes on a different persona.

You could claim that it's the pebbles, perhaps in part it is. I reckon it's also a lot to do with the nature if the trail being tight through the trees and is like comparing such riding with let's say wide, open and fast trails as you find in the Peaks.

I took up riding as a kid on the Chase and as a result have a preference to forest singletrack over wide and rugged National Park type trails (although I'm looking forward to 3 days in the Lakes next week)

It's about variety and each to their own although the tendency to criticise trails because they don't suit a particular rider's is frankly disrespectful.

Completely agree ST each to their own and not every one likes the same thing. I don't go to Cannock very often as I prefer more natural trails. But you criticise places for having different obstacles to overcome. The only thing to criticise is yourself for not riding a trail as you find it.

On your last paragraph thats a ridiculous statement. I like the Peaks but I miss the Surrey Hills/N.Downs (almost 100% woodland riding).

From some of the early comments the surfacing at Cannock is a compromise.

This compromise is compounded further in that if pebbles are an ideal riding surface and its in such abundance, why is it not exported to other man made trails?

Its making the best cost effectively with whats already in the area. Thats fine but to take humbridge with those that critise it for being difficult to ride on?

Come on.

If I lived within 30mins of Cannock I'd ride there frequently but if the Peaks (or anywhere else) was only 30mins extra away I'd hardly visit Cannock. I think that says it all for me.

st - Member

Personally I don't really like Llandegla for example.

I was there the day he didn't really like Llandegla.

He really really didn't like it 🙂

Yep it does say it all for you hora. However, I live 30 mins from Cannock and an hour from the Peaks. I prefer to ride at Cannock, be it on the Monkey or off piste.

I have never really found the surface that difficult. ..had plenty of crashes but then I'm crap. It's a fantastic facility that probably sees the highest volume of traffic of any trail in the country. It makes the most of very little elevation and seen as we didn't pay to build it or have to pay to ride it then there's little room for complaint imo.

Perhaps you'd be better sticking to not turning up on Peaks rides and blaming your bike for not being able to ride stuff 🙂

Hora my dear, no-one thinks pebbles is ideal but its what the whole forest is sat on. The new stuff is getting crushed rocks mixed in with it at great financial cost so should hopefully last longer and maybe help you ride a bit better, like your new headangle of the week. Or new forks.

So was the bit you clipped your bars on on the fearsome Werewolf Drop? Oh great fireballs in the sky, you need a skills course.

Oh, an 3 pages gets a 9/10.

Its making the best cost effectively with whats already in the area. Thats fine but to take humbridge with those that critise it for being difficult to ride on?

So your saying now that you arn't good enough to ride on the surface quickly? Thats your problem not the chases. There are plenty that can ride quickly at the chase. What was your lap time by the way?

Oh and fwiw neither of my bikes are LaPierre's or 29ers.

Hora, I think you need to stop looking for this holy grail of mountain biking, both in terms of trail and bike. You're never going to find perfection because you want the bike and the trail to completely compensate for your (low?) skill level.

Sorry? Confused. Wheres that come from? I dont like pebbles so that makes me a listless, confused rider?

Went a couple of times this year and enjoyed it, yeah it's pebbley but the peaks are rocky and dahn sarf is muddy and Wales is pebbley,rocky, muddy and full of woolybacks,
It's all good 😀 it'd be boring if everywhere was the same

It seems that the ideal surface is needed at Cannock now then "Tarmac". Why are you looking for ideal surface that the whole point you go off road on a so called MTB so as to not be riding on perfection surely. I also think now over eyre forest they should start getting rid of all the mud an putting gravel down so it's easier for us to go fast. That's really what your saying. And Fwiw I ride a lapierre what a muppet I must be

Surely mountain biking is about riding your bike over different terrains and obstacles? I would have thought pebbles would come under this? Riding on surfaces with varying levels of grip is part of the fun; you have to judge the level of grip and adapt your speed and weight distribution to make the most of it. If the pebbles weren't there, part of the challenge would be lost, and Cannock wouldn't be as good (in my opinion). Riding on a surface that is smooth enough for a road bike would be pretty dull.

I love rocky AND muddy 😀

The Lapierre comment was observational. There seemed to be a fair few there on Sunday.

Who wants uniform smooth hardcore? Too many trail centres have this as a default. What I like is more slabs, rocky, loose earth, berms etc.

Cannock has potential- those pebbles dont add any attraction or charm. The upgrade to the surface? I'll go back and try again. For me I love flow in a trail centre. Its hard to flow through the trees on pebbles.

But your crap on wet pebbles

My riding is shit

On Llandegla I really like the Cafe and the staff

The trails are 100% shiny fixed pebbles

I notice the pebbles were concentrated on what I presume is the high wear areas- over humps/into corners

I dont like pebbles

For me, in general the best 'trails' are ones that flatter the rider. Say the hard/technical ones- just hard enough that you know it's bloody hard but also reward you soo much

Awesome you need skill to ride Cannock

Its hard to flow through the trees on pebbles.

So to sum things up you don't like pebbles and that means the trail center is crap because you don't have the skill to flow through trees and pebbles. Plenty of others manage to flow through the trees and pebbles year round without a problem. Maybe you should have spent more time at the cafe?

I wouldn't class myself as a great rider but I can hold my own on tech sections and have never had a problem with the pebbles at cannock. The only times I have had a fall at cannock are when I have had a lapse in concentration or have overdone it on a particularly difficult section, it has [b]never[/b] been the fault of the trail.

I don't mind the pebbles at Cannock. With the right tyres / pressure grip is not a problem. What I do miss though is flow. The braking ruts are now so deep in many places that they break the flow, and that's annoying. There are also no drops of reasonable height (say a foot or slightly more) that you can take at speed (so they're safe), or a rock garden that you can approach fast and just skim over. The black bits are really difficult, the red bits are really easy - something in between would be terrific. But what a great initiative the whole thing is - it gets thousands of people out in the open doing fun things, so it contributes more to national happiness than, say, the NHS... 😆

I Ache. Summed that up great ha ha

I really like cannock, can't say I've ever had an issue with the pebbles. But then, at my modest pace, I'm unlikely to. 🙂

Hora, did you GPS the ride? Jus' wunderin', like...

Limburger, completely agree. I find the bits like upper cliff, the one before it and the final bit just before the rollers flow nicely (with the little stump drops) but last time I was there I found most of the rest a bit "stop-start" but maybe thats just me. Was also a shame to see the rollers covered in stones to slow you down - can see why they've done it but they were really fun before.

Was also a shame to see the rollers covered in stones to slow you down - can see why they've done it but they were really fun before.

limburger, with the programme of works now underway you may see a bit more of the intermediate stuff to which I think you refer but it will take time.

_tom_, the regular presence of ambulances for the unfortunate riders who used to try to (literally) fly through the rollers and the suceptibility of the trail surface in semi-frozen conditions led to the rock armouring of the rollers.

This also touches on limbruger's point. The sheer acessibility of Cannock Chase means that a mid-level trail supplemented by more technical options was the best solution.

I don't get this issue of the trail lacking "flow", sure they aren't berm after berm of rider flattering lines but as long as you think about the trail and what's coming up next it should never really be an issue. The braking bumps and other issues arising from erosion are far from ideal but only part of this is down the the micro trail design, the wide range of rider abilities coupled with the material have far more to do with the current state of the trail*

*which is progressively being addressed by Chase Trails.

I don't get this issue of the trail lacking "flow"

Now please don't imagine for one second I prefer a 3m wide straight line kitty litter surface through the trees but everytime I ride off-piste it strikes me how much 'flow' is possible on the Chase. Corners that flow naturally from one to the next and if there's need for a tight turn, it doesn't come at the end of a screaming descent there's a flick or two on the approach just to calm things down. Little jumps have landings and there seems to be no need for big banked up berms when the terrain is used appropriately.

Of course off-piste gets churned up but imho it's nothing compared to the braking bumps and damage on the official trails which I think is proof that people are having to brake hard or take evasive action because the trail takes an unexpected turn and in this respect doesn't 'flow'

I realise you have to accommodate riders of all levels and I'm no ace but I often wonder how many of these 'calming' features on the official trails are H&S/FC inspired

I will have to see these pebbles for myself when I'm back at Christmas. Rode Cannock a lot when I lived nearby, can't remember any pebbles, are they a new edition?

I thnk the pebbles have emerged over time through the soil in between them being washed away by heavy rains and high volume of traffic. They don't look like they've been added. The only area I find that they're particularly tricky is the first part of the dog before you split off for the Monkey trail where they pebbles are fixed into the ground and the trail weaves its way through the forest. The rest of the trial you can navigate the slippery parts and you do get some bite if you commit a bit of body weight. Its like anything - it takes a bit of time to get used to and improve your skills. And to say Cannock isn't flowy, again say's more about the person writing that than the trail. Like everything in life, practice makes perfect. I can pick holes in all the trail centres i've ridden so far, but I tend to think that any issues I have with a particualr trail is down to me and not the trail.

rocketman, I think I know what you're getting at and to some extent agree as there are a number of contractor introduced features on the trail which may apear randomly placed when you're actually riding the trail.

In some cases these are valid trail anchors whils tin other cases they are curious, there are also a number of features which could given the benefit of hindsight be altered or have been better located elsewhere but. Now this may only become evident once the trail is ridden as the commnoly used line may ultimately differ form that designed and built.

A good trail designer working with the contractor will pick some of this up but there remains some which will only become evident when the trail is established.

This isn;t to say that the trail is badly designed but there are things that could be done better. The situation may be further highlighted due to the way in which there is a mix on contractor / machine built sections and volunteer / hand built sections.

The nature of the maintenance on the trail is such that it may not always be possible to make the changes we would like to for reasons of time, resource or sign-off by the FC safety / engineering team. Put simply we may need to accept a compromised feature as it is officially approved and in the grans scheme of it it is better to accept the compromise.

This comment doesn't immediately suppor the negative comments made elsewhere as it doesn't cover every scenario.

wobbliscott has it regarding the pebbles.

Locally sourced mixed sand and gravel is used to surface the trails. It is sourced either from borrow pits close to the trail sections or from the local quarry who have been first clas in suppoting the developmen of the trails.

As is the way of it the finer sand gets separated and carried away on tyres, wahsed away in the wet or kicked up as dust. This leaves exposed gravel and over time more sand is separated and the stones then break loose leaving a combination of fixed but exposed stones and loose gravel.

The sand content makes the trail succeptible to expansion during freezing conditions which exacerbates the cycle.

It is hoped that by mixed non-local gritstone with it's more angular aggregate and coarseer sand content that this vicious circle will be dealt with at least in part.

OK thanks for the explanation st. The lack of flow is not intended as a criticism of the official trails it's just that there is a marked difference between what has been done and what can be done. Not so much in terms of resources or maintenance but more in terms of what you describe as 'trail anchors' 🙂

Cannock is my local trail centre and I don't do too bad, if strava is anything to go by( I know, I know!) I reckon I'm in the top 35% ish!

Anyhow, the only time I've really crashed was coming down upper cliff ( the last decent on the monkey)
And this was due to the trail being really dry and dusty and I washed out on a corner.
I don't think I've ever crashed on the pebbles, IMO the trick with those is to run your pressures a lot lower than you normally would elsewhere, fwiw I run mine around 23 psi but then again I'm only 10 st.

I personally like the tight lines through the trees makes things a bit more interesting, I'm sure I've still got some bark wedged behind my brake levers from one close encounter! 😆

I also like the addition of sharp, steep, technical or tight section after "flowy" bits! Yes, it's good to have a section of berms and flow, but then sticking in a change of pace means you have to think about your riding a lot more. It makes it feel more natural to me.

I've never really had much of an issue with "braking bumps" either. I'm riding a mountain bike, therefore i should be able to cope with a few small bumps here and there......... 😉

How much trail building do you do Hora?

Morning Will. 😀

Good morning Scruff!

What I wouldn´t give for a few days of groomed trails and pebbles.
This is what we have to put up with round here.

[img] [/img]

@walleater I paid parking and at the cafe. You dont need to trailbuild in the Peaks and its frowned on upon in other areas. So its not really a valid question as I visit trail centres <once a year.

@sunrider, where's that? Looks great.

@walleater I paid parking and at the cafe.

hora - Member
I paid parking and at the cafe.

I visit trail centres <once a year.

[i][b]Did you GPS the ride?[/b][/i]

We'll said rusty

Sun rider, that looks great to me too. No need for trail centres if that's on your doorstep!

Personally, braking bumps, pebbles, roots, small / no berms, 'horrible' entry to black sections are what makes mountainbiking worthwhile...

If you want to ride 'places that flatter you' invent mtb tobogganing as that is what it sounds like!

Long live mountainbiking and not hardcore pruned berms and rollers!

Its not dis-repair, its a bloody trail and we ride bikes with grippy tyres..

I'm slightly glad it doesn't seem to be only me that likes to go out an find the hardest a roughest things to ride. An then get to the end smiling thinking "Jesus that was hard work"

Sunnrider, I have trail envy. Somewhere in Spain?

mtb tobogganing

Now that sounds like great fun. The speeds would be truely terrifying!

If you want to ride 'places that flatter you' invent mtb tobogganing as that is what it sounds like!

And that's what makes it so fun. I don't mind techy rocky stuff every now and then but tracks that are fast, bermy and full of jumps (proper ones, not like at Llandegla) are the best.

Each to their own, prefer natural trails myself but in some areas of the country there aren't any big rocks to fill trails up with and the ground is solid rock. Are trail-builders supposed to transport rocks from the north to the midlands?

Doesn't mean anyone needs a 140mm bike to ride them mind.

Rode there mid October and had a good time - didn't notice any real issue with the pebbles, but then I run a big grippy front tyre and am happy with the rear being quite drifty. As for the narrow gaps through trees etc, that's what it's all about - I love that "on edge" feeling when you are gunning through stuff like that. It's how you become a faster rider. Much prefer that than an excessively groomed trail with berms everywhere and "nu skool flow" (read "wheelchair trails with a bit of elevation and a couple of rollers) as it seems to be called all of a sudden!

Well a 29er would be the best type of bike to tackle the Cannock marked trails with, them being XC and all. They are not exactly rad narr, so what's the problem with 29ers being prevalent there?

andyrm, I'm right there with you. One of the best off piste trails I ride on the Chase has a particular pinchpoint that requires a wiggle to get any width of bars through, narrower than the narrow bits on the Monkey but ace fun. I've never properly washed out on the trails and I'd like to think I don't hang about. The smooth pumpy trails with their easy jumps and progressive berms have their place but only a place.

@wobbliscott @winch

That pic was taken on the descent of Mt Larrun. Last of the Pyrenees, it starts off rocky as hell and later gives way to twisty mountain sheep singletrack.
It really is a full on descent, I was thinking a few easy berms and some pebbles would be a sweet change of pace.

Did any of you lads or lasses leave an EA90 Front wheel next to a silver merc estate a couple of weeks ago at Cannock chase???

Thanks Sunrider. Just added to my MTB bucket list which I need a whole other lifetime to fulfil!

@walleater I paid parking and at the cafe. You dont need to trailbuild in the Peaks and its frowned on upon in other areas. So its not really a valid question as I visit trail centres <once a year.

So you provide nothing to the community and yet bitch and moan about the people who do? Unless anything has changed since I did any trail building at Cannock, Chase Trails don't see any of the revenue from parking or the cafe.

Re. the Peak District.... I'm sure you'd be welcome to take a fold-up spade / trail tool in your pack and sort out some of the God awful drainage on some of the trails.

I provide nothing to the community? I don't understand I paid parking. From a few people I talked to there they said 'no need to pay, theres a free carpark just before the last section of Cup of tea?). I paid parking (and always will at a trail centre, put money into the cafe etc). Its FC land isn't it? They need to see a benefit to them and I'm sure they provide some materials OR funding at some level to the trails. So I'm not a local letch who has local knowledge and gets a free ride.

Maybe if you think I'm a freeloader you should charge me to ride the trail?

Now the title of the thread, I admit makes me look like a bit of a cock but on Sunday afternoon I was abit pissed off, passionate I'd say as the cliff has great potential as does Deer Skull etc. I didn't like the pebbles one bit. I found them sketchy. Now I understand about the politics/topography etc but crushed stone is now being brought in for an alternative surface.

I doff my cap to the volunteer work and the next time I'm in Brum I WILL co-ordinate and help you guys too/put some work in.

😕

Holy moly - the chap doesn't like a few pebbles on the surface of a man made trail but prefers natural trails ?

Eh ?

What's he going to do when faced with, mud, leaves, snow, ice, moss, random rocks and so on ?

Probably ride them just as badly and blame the trail conditions for not pinning it.

What's he going to do when faced with, mud, leaves, snow, ice, moss, random rocks and so on ?

Yesterday I had to climb/make my way over felled trees/branches for 300m's. Can't het more natural obstacles than that.

..but you missed the point of my first post completely.

This topic/thread has become cyclic/boring.

Yesterday I had to climb/make my way over felled trees/branches for 300m's

Need a 29er/fatty for that

I'd love that 29'er Chromag that I mentioned earlier. Noice.