I was probably actually more disappointed when looking in to CX bikes, hoping they would offer something for some faster road riding and still be fast off road. By and large the trend looks the same as gravel bikes where the geometry is only fractionally different from the race bikes and in many cases the frames are exactly the same as the road bikes and only the build changes the genre/ definition/ use/ whatever.
This isn't correct.
I've spent decades riding and racing CX bikes, and can guarantee that CX bikes aren't identical to road bikes. At the most basic level, CX bikes must have more clearance and a longer back end than a road racing bike - that's always been the same. I'm currently comparing the geo charts for a Cannondale SuperSix EVO CX to a Supersix EVO road and almost every single measurement is different. At the other end of the market, even the Forme CX geometry doesn't compare with the Forme road bikes.
There aren't actually many dedicated CX bikes being made these days, because of the gravel boom. I wonder what you're looking at?
have dug out the gravel bike again. It’s great if your looking for a non technical route mixing road, dirt and gravel fire roads. Mines feels faster than the 29er on dirt roads I can get into the drops on long flat stretches and push on. It’s also fun a nice challenge on little bits of single track.
Which is EXACTLY what a gravel bike is for and exactly the sort of riding I do 4 times a week. People who don't like them or don't feel they have any benefits are simply not using them for the purpose they are designed for.
People who don’t like them or don’t feel they have any benefits are simply not using them for the purpose they are designed for.
Or are jumping on them and expecting everything to be easy. It takes time to learn how to ride the things quickly, even on relatively tame terrain. This is also the same for road bikes - not many MTBers jump on a proper road bike and are able to use it properly immediately. (Or vice versa.) I'd suggest that it's like an experienced guitarist picking up a ukelele - they'll be able to get a tune from it within minutes but will take a lot longer than a weekend to sound like an expert.
And it's also what non-cyclists think about bikes isn't it? It's only a bike, anyone can ride it, so if he can ride down that track then so can I! 😀
By and large the trend looks the same as gravel bikes where the geometry is only fractionally different from the race bikes and in many cases the frames are exactly the same as the road bikes and only the build changes the genre/ definition/ use/ whatever.
TBH, i would guess that many don't appreciate how much difference a degree here and a degree there make on a road bike. Especially when MTBs have changed so much, think my first mtb was based round a 72 parallel frame with a 120mm stem.
Latest XC race bikes are wildly different.
Road bike geometry has barely changed in the last 30 years.
I'd like to see what brands are using the same frame for a road bike and a CX/gravel bike TBH. Just so i can avoid them. 😉
Road bike geometry has barely changed in the last 30 years.
There was a fair bit of change in the previous 100 years though.
I wonder if MTB geometry in 100 years will be pretty much the same as now, but bikes will just have more storage compartments?
I think there will be more bifurcation of genes and non optional "upgrades" I e. Note and more bike will come with electronic X,y,z with a change to mechanical costing money so people will not but live with the planned obsolescence. We are already at the point where bikes are bought as cars are i.e. in a disposable manor with a no point upgrading the bike due to standards changes. I don't think the geo will change much but more standards and more proprietary parts will mean more obsolescence.
aberdeenlune
It’s great if your looking for a non technical route mixing road, dirt and gravel fire roads. Mines feels faster than the 29er on dirt roads I can get into the drops on long flat stretches and push on. It’s also fun a nice challenge on little bits of single track.
This. They're not better on singletrack or any kind of proper trail than a mountain bike (unless you have drops that are jacked up in the air and flared to the point that the no longer serve any aero purpose as drops), but they can cope with it if you need to. For me, they're a different thing to mountain biking.
I’ve had a FreeRanger since April & have done about 1200 miles of varying terrain on it.
It’s fast, but not on ‘proper’ off-road. It’s not even comfortable, after 20 miles my arms are aching whereas this has never occurred in 32 years of riding MTB’s.
Stick a RedShift stem on it - makes a huge difference, can ride all day off road and arms are fine.
Or are jumping on them and expecting everything to be easy.
They also probably don't ride much on road, so not used to riding on the hoods etc. Unless it gets very rocky I don't find my FreeRanger any slower than a HT MTB and can easily stick to the wheel of friends HT's like glue. NB I'm not a riding God, I'm just very comfortable on dropped bar bikes. Eg there is a comment above about toe overlap, which my FreeRanger has, but never noticed it as you just position the pedals to avoid it without ever thinking about it.
I asked a similar question on here a few years back - do I have a need for a gravel bike - I got a real mix of answers.
I bought a Mason Bokeh and really like it, BUT it’s not a replacement for my mountain bike (Spark 900rc) or my summer road bike (Enigma Echelon).
The Bokeh is a great ‘gravel bike’ that’s fit for purpose where I take it - mixed between roads, paths, fire roads etc.
I recently did the Ridgeway 100 that was billed as a gravel ride - I took my mtb as I wanted more comfort and have ridden parts of the Ridgeway before - there were people on gravel bikes doing it, some with 650b wheels and fatter tyres, but I wanted the comfort (and stability) of my Spark.
I also recently did a 65 mile route of the New Forest and the Bokeh was the perfect tool for that ride.
In the winter I put road wheels on it and 28 tyres and use it as a road bike and then just swap wheels over if I want to use it for ‘gravel’.
A gravel bike is like any other bike really, eg I’d use a Brompton in London but not want to take it to the Pyrenees.
I've got a Kona Sutra Ltd that will take 29x2.1 tyres. It's a very comfortable bike and I've got really wide drop handlebars on it. It's great for going out the front door, along the road then onto fire tracks, canals and not-very-rocky trails. In other words, what we used to do as mountain biking in the 90s. I happily ride The Gap on it for instance (though the rocky bit on the Brecon side of the pass needs to be walked). It feels much more efficient than my MTBs, but as soon as the amount of lumpy trail exceeds the road and track to get there, I'd rather be on my MTB (which is also rigid, now my full suspension bike is dead). In the summer I put narrower, slicker tyres on it and becomes a pseudo road bike for zipping about. I find it pretty useful, though if could only have one bike it would be the rigid MTB.
Maybe we need to ask a roadie who has transitioned to gravel riding to define what gravel riding is?
As we already ride gravel paths, it's just a part of normal riding to us so we can't really see what all the fuss is about.
I still chuckle when I think back to my neighbour waxing lyrical about how she only rides gravel now (instead of mountain biking, which she was equally as enthusiastic about only months before) and how I was missing out by mountain biking.
I was intrigued to what fantastic gravel trails I'd been missing all the years I'd been living here.
She then goes on to describe the a route that I instantly recognise as a NCN cycle path.
😂
As for woodsy, undulating, singletrack trails. Whoever thinks that a mountain bike would be quicker than a cross bike must never have ridden one. IMO, probably the most pure fun you can have on two wheels. Even more so if you add some mud, off camber roots..... 🤤
There aren’t actually many dedicated CX bikes being made these days, because of the gravel boom
Which is very annoying, even though I don't actually want a new cx bike at the moment. My more modern, but properly cx, cx bike, is definitely slower round corners than my cheap old ridley with trad cx geo, so I really wouldn't fancy a gravel/cx bike as a race bike
My more modern, but properly cx, cx bike, is definitely slower round corners than my cheap old ridley with trad cx geo, so I really wouldn’t fancy a gravel/cx bike as a race bike
The only problem I spotted with my Marin gravel bike at Risca was that I had a few pedal strikes on off camber bits. The BB is slightly lower on the Marin than on a trad CX, so that might explain it, or it might just have been one of those courses! The Marin is quite close to CX geometry while looking very slopey. If you're at Pembrey on Sunday, see you there!
@didnthurt - I have trails like that behind my house and around town and it's great fun riding them on my Genesis Fugio. There's also a bunch of hills nearby which are littered with gravel roads so I can head out for much longer gravel rides if I wish, which is great for my fitness and state of mind. The same hills are also covered in some fantastic MTB trails which is why I also have a Bigwig and AM9. The AM9 is my favourite bike but I love riding them all.
Maybe we need to ask a roadie who has transitioned to gravel riding to define what gravel riding is?
As we already ride gravel paths, it’s just a part of normal riding to us so we can’t really see what all the fuss is about.
I think there's more fuss about what the 'fuss' actually is. It's just a mid way house between a road bike and a HT MTB, faster on road than an MTB, better off road than a road bike. Just a more burly tourer if you want the closest existing genre. They're great if you like that kind of thing and not if you don't.
You could ride the same stuff on other bikes if you wanted to and no one would die. The roadbike might get a few dings in the rims though...
Fuss about gravel bikes? Are we still on that in 2022?
As with all these things, the bike you enjoy riding the most at the time depends on where you are riding it.
My "go to" is my gravel bike because I can ride from my door on country lanes, into the local forest trails and then add a bit of single track, back onto the lanes, follow the canal and then into the woods again blah blah. I get the miles in, pretty much traffic free in a way that would be garbage on either my hardtail (slower), full suss (even slower) or road bike (crap off road).
But if i was loading up the car and heading into the peak for some fun would i take the gravel bike? Would i hell.
went out on gravel bike earlier.
pretty rough terrain to the watering hole.
need big tyres.
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I’d observe that for most folks having a more capable bike is “more useful” than having one that is not.
Of course, but a heavier, draggy, less aerodynamic bike is less useful unless the trail demands it. Which for a lot of people, a lot of the time, it doesn't.
went out on gravel bike earlier.
You sold that hybrid and replaced it pretty quickly 😉
My winter road bike covers gravel stuff easily !! Bike companies are having your pants down again 🤷♂️
Stick a RedShift stem on it – makes a huge difference, can ride all day off road and arms are fine.
I did, a week after I got it. The 100mm pole it came with was awful.
Gravel bikes are not MTB’s, and, imo, should not be used for mtbing. Gravel bikes are for, well, gravel roads, or as there are a lot of them in the UK, normal no techy bridleways, canal tow paths and other light off road routes where larger tyres make it more comfortable and racier geo, make it faster.
^^this basically^^
If you want to feel comfortably in control on the gnar, use an MTB.
If you're last experience of an "off-road bicycle" was cyclocross or XC circa 1990ish then gravel bikes will seem just Dandy.
If you've only ever ridden 21st century MTBs and struggle without suspension, wide bars and a dropper, I can't imagine why you'd think a shorter, steeper, narrower bike wouldn't feel unnerving
My winter road bike covers gravel stuff easily !! Bike companies are having your pants down again 🤷♂️
I’m lost. Why would I buy a winter road bike over a gravel bike? Is there actually anything the road bike does better?
My Arkose cost exactly the same as the road bike equivalent. But with more space for tyres and mud guards
Putting the marketing to one side for a mo,if over many years you have riden a lot of different bikes ,on lots of different (and sometimes unsuitable) terrain,it's easier to decide what is going to work for your needs. Most of the key features of a good 'gravel'frame are exactly what I have searching for,for a long,long time.
Yeah but…For me at least the attraction of MTB back in the 1990’s was that I could now buy a bike that was decidedly, unapologetically “better for” off road. That’s why we all bought them…It wasn’t a road bike, It wasn’t your dad’s overweight tourer. The whole ethos of this new sort of bike was that they could go off road…We’ve now seemingly got to the point where “marketing” is trying hard to convince us that what we’ve all been striving to achieve – a better mountain bike for any and all terrain has all gone a bit too far, and what we really want is a slightly more capable road bike, or in fact, a slightly less capable MTB.
My 1990s mtb really did it all. Single track, commuting, long tours, time trials, road rides
My full suspension mountain bike is better at one of those things and worse at the rest
My gravel bike is worse than my MTB on proper MTB terrain. But better at everything else
I don’t really care what others are riding. But I do find it odd that people are so sure that the gravel bike was invented by marketing folks. Before you could buy a gravel bike people were using old road bikes, rigid mtbs and cx bikes as gravel bikes. Now you can buy a gravel bike that’s designed for what people were already doing. Just as good you can buy a road bike and put 35mm gravel tyres on it and use it as a gravel bike. There was a time when a road bike had 23mm tyres with no space round them for anything much bigger
For me I think of my gravel bike as a road bike for a MTBer. I have been MTBing since the early 90's, and my old Orange C16R became my winter "road" bike. Unfortunately it's getting a pain to keep it running - 26" wheels, rim brakes 1" steerer. I brought a road bike about 7 years ago, to explore the countryside over a larger range but frankly it's bone jarring over most of our local roads, suffers toe overlap and is useless on anything off road. So I have brought myself a gravel bike. It's almost as quick on the road, much more comfortable over the pot holes, no hint of toe overlap, and fun on the local bridleways and byways. Does it replace my MTB? Off course not, but it's probably going to make the road bike redundant. As far as I'm concerned more choice can only be better. If a gravel bike works for you then great, if you'd rather use a hardtail then that's fine too - more bikes can only be a good thing 😀.
I’m lost. Why would I buy a winter road bike over a gravel bike? Is there actually anything the road bike does better?
My winter road bike is a gravel bike (Spesh Diverge) with mudguards and 30mm GP5000s on it. I also also have a FreeRanger without mudguards, with RedShift Stem and 50mm gravel tyres on it. I ride both offroad, but the 30mm GP5000s put quite a restriction on where it can go. The FreeRanger can pretty much go anywhere.
I’m lost. Why would I buy a winter road bike over a gravel bike? Is there actually anything the road bike does better?
Winter road bike is lighter/cheaper(no gravel tax) and can take guards etc. now I’m confused 😐
. If you’re at Pembrey on Sunday, see you there!
It’s next Sunday not this Sunday! But yes I will be there, I still haven’t cleaned my cx bike since the Welsh champs at Pembrey last year 😂
I think there’s more fuss about what the ‘fuss’ actually is.
Yup, and of course those of us already gulping down the coolaid will always jump to defend gravel bikes, but I don't think we really need to.
It's a case of you either 'get it' or you don't. And if you don't there's really nothing to worry about, curb your FOMO if you're happier with an MTB, just crack on...
^^+1000's
I have been MTBing since the early 90’s, and my old Orange C16R became my winter “road” bike. Unfortunately it’s getting a pain to keep it running – 26″ wheels, rim brakes 1″ steerer.
Same here although mine's is a P7.
tbh, I'm finding no trouble keeping it going. There is never going to be a shortage of pads for rim brakes and 26" rims and tyres aren't going to be disappearing any time soon.
Admittedly, a 1" steerer makes things a bit more interesting but since I found a 1/8" shim it's been no problem to run oversize bars (although having a bike with handlebars thicker than the downtube does look a it weird).
Plus the fact that the F7 is just about my favourite rigid fork ever.
I really don't see any issues with easily running this bike very cheaply for many years to come.
