Are Avid BB7s still the ones to go for? I am looking for a set for my GFs bike to replace the awful ones on it.
Any suggestions? Its been a long while since I have had anything to do with them!
Juin Tech are very good, we have had them on a couple of bikes for years now and they have been reliable, relatively maintenance free and provide good stopping power.
In fact it seems we’ve had them for a decade or so;
The norco cx bike i fitted them to is my go to bike now, with the same brakes on them - I don’t think i’ve even bled them in the intervening decade.
I'm running bb7s on 2 bikes. Done lots of loaded touring and utility riding as well as just normal gravel. It seems a lot of people don't get on with them, but for me they are excellent, requiring very little adjustment. I think the top tip is really good quality brake cable outer, jagwire's expensive or equivalent.
Beware of eBay, I bought some that turned out to be obvious knock offs that where truly terrible/dangerous. Got refunded by eBay, though.
I have BB7s on a few bikes, gravel and MTB. I rate them. Had Spyres and Spykes also then went back to BB7s on all in preference. Less adjustment needed than Spyres and better overall modulation imo. With good cables and the right levers and rotors I've got cable brakes that work as well as hydros for road, gravel and XC use. They don't feel quite as friction-free as hydros but they're damn close, suprisingly so for a few people who've tried them.
Top tip is to use a compressionless outer on the rear with standard outer the front, that gives the same lever feel front and rear, and use SP41 grease lightly on the inners to remove drag and stiction. Round / less wavy rotors run better in them also.
Thanks for the input! Just realized I am not sure what mounts the bike has so it may well complicate things a bit!
What's the bike?
If it's a MTB or anything with flat bars then Shimano's entry level hydros are cheap as chips and much better than mechanical if you add a good set of pads.
If it's drop bars then BB7 or Spyre C. The compressionless cables suggestion is a good shout too. I have Jagwires on my gravel bike and they do make a bit of difference.
I've been using BB7s for 19 years and agree with the above. Significantly better than the Spyres I tried for a couple of years (2020-22) then gave up on. My current monstercross has a road BB7 caliper on the front, mounted on an old MTN IS adapter so I can use it with a 183mm rotor, coupled with a Microshift lever; the back has a 19 year old MTN BB7 coupled with a V-pull lever. Very easy to set up if you RTFM.
They come with IS adapters designed for a specific diameter of rotor. I'm unclear whether, with those adapters removed, the caliper will bolt straight onto a frame/fork post-mount without needing spacers. Has anybody done this? Do the tri-align conical washers make a difference to caliper and rotor matching up correctly in this case? I've been meaning to tinker around to find out.
ITs a Specialized Diverge with flat mounts so looks like BB7s wont work for me.
I like the Spyres when set up properly with compressionless cables. Actuated from both sides, so IMHO need less adjustment than single sided ones.
You could go with TRP Hy\Rd. Just over £100 for a pair.
Honestly you could probably sell the cable shifters you have and buy a full hydro set and it work out the same as just buying some cable callipers. Over the years we upgraded to full hydro (kids + wifes etc) and they have been faultless and the most powerful. They often come up at a bargain price.
If you stick to cable Avids are ok, BB5/7 reliable but not too powerful. Juins + Acor barnded version slightly more powerful but destroyed a couple of sets (mostly corrosion / water ingress) replaced under warranty but sold them off, I was an early adopter though maybe they improved. TRP Hy\Rd best of bunch IMHO had no problems running these but they are chunky.
My preference would be to get a pair of used dual actuation calipers off ebay or whatever. If the bike was used more there may be a case for new groupset, but its not. I used it to commute to work this morning and realised how awful the brakes were, hence all this going on now!
I've had a pair of the Zoom Xtech HB100 things on my road bike for years now and they have never needed touching. I think they were originally fitted to those xiaomi scooters. They are about £10 per caliper but nor sure if they are flat mount compatible...
I'd look at ZTTO on Aliexpress they will for sure have something for flat mount by now.
I've used cable actuated brakes for years.
My tuppence worth is that I prefer the consistency of feel and the adjustment of TRP brakes over Avid. I am currently using both Spyres and Spykes and wouldn't go back to BB7s.
I do have some TRP Hy/Rd that are very nice to use to (and powerful) but they are so monumentally fugly 😆 and are a pain to bleed.
A flat mount Spyre caliper and pads is ~£40 with the fancier and ever so slightly lighter carbon armed version coming in about £10 dearer. The is where I would spend my money vs. an Aliexpress pair.
As I say ... just my tuppence worth though.
Honestly you could probably sell the cable shifters you have and buy a full hydro set and it work out the same as just buying some cable callipers.
Not on a drop bar bike like the Diverge - hydraulic brifters cost a bloody fortune!
I'm unclear whether, with those adapters removed, the caliper will bolt straight onto a frame/fork post-mount without needing spacers. Has anybody done this? Do the tri-align conical washers make a difference to caliper and rotor matching up correctly in this case? I've been meaning to tinker around to find out.
I haven't tried BB7 to PM direct w/o washers but an IS to PM adapter for Shimano/Sram hydros is different shape to an IS to PM for BB7s. The difference isn't that much, less than I would think the tri-aligns make (could be wrong). Tri-align is one of the best bits of a BB7 though.
I like the Spyres when set up properly with compressionless cables. Actuated from both sides, so IMHO need less adjustment than single sided ones.
Fair to say the adjustment of each side of a BB7 isn't quite as simple but once you know the method it is just as easy and it's tool-free. TRP made it more obvious and easy to see how to do it and that was smart. I expect there's more of them running well because of that, set up is more than half the battle.
One reason I stopped using Spyres and went back to BB7s was how often I needed to adjust the Spyres, the rate of change/increase of lever pull was faster than the BB7. On a bikepacking trip in the Alps on Spyres I needed to adjust after a major descent. That could have been pad compound but I tried a few and tried the same compound in each brake eg Aztec pads, I consistently got more braking or time from a BB7 before they needed adjustment for lever pull. I think it's to do with the cable pull to piston movement ratios. I'm not sure if that's related to having 2 moving pistons in the Spyres, perhaps not as the forces are opposed equally, I've not had them both apart to look in detail. And it matters less for day to day UK riding. I was also biased by getting a BB7 to feel better overall on my MTB but that was a real fine-tune project to get the best cable disc performance I could, inc Paul levers and some careful cable prep. I think the BB7s have a bit less friction and I'd say they helped get a set up with better modulation overall.
Anyway, not really arguing for one over the other - I was happy using both. As letmetalktomark says, for a flat mount road frameset the FM Spyres would be good. They look neater, work well, take a common and cheap pad type and are easy to live with for general road riding.
Honestly you could probably sell the cable shifters you have and buy a full hydro set and it work out the same as just buying some cable callipers.
Not on a drop bar bike like the Diverge - hydraulic brifters cost a bloody fortune!
They don't have to. Mechanical hydro Shimano brifters are available for about £200 a pair on aliexpress. They're OEM stock but I'm using them on both my gravel and road bikes without any issues.
They don't have to. Mechanical hydro Shimano brifters are available for about £200 a pair on aliexpress.
That's not a full hydro set that fooman suggested though is it?
spyres on both our tourer/commuters. excellent brakes.
prefer them to avids cause both sides actuate,so they dont rub or twist the rotor.
prettier too
Nobody suggesting Paul's Klampers yet 😆
I do have some, and they're bloody lovely - good stoppers and a lovely but if machining.
However, they'd probably be over budget! BB7s are good too, when well set up. I agree with the compressionless outer comments, it makes a big difference.
Just incase.....
I have a Giant Conduct SL (Cable to hydro converter) stem mounted master cyclinder that I'm not using. I know some people don't like the way they look but it worked perfectly at stopping my 105kg lardy arse on my PX London Road and Cotic Cascade before I turned it into a hardtail MTB. I also thought the brakes felt nicer than the cable discs I'd previously used. I used it with some Shimano hydro calipers and liked it because you have a fully sealed brake line from the bars down.
I've had shimano cable brakes that were really good, and also some Hayes CX calipers that were better and nicer in every way than the Shimanos. Also had some flat mount calipers, TRP I think, that were used on my sons road bike for a short while and seemed ok.
If anyone fancies a go with the Giant Conduct I'll let it go for £30. Also have 3 different length stems to go with it, as Giant uses a different bolt distance so it needs a giant stem.....
Are you sure the brakes are genuinely awful? I've got no-name single-sided-pull cable brakes on my heavy electric cargo bike which work fine. Bike has lived outside in the rain for the two years I've had it. In the winter I need to wind the stationary pad in every few weeks - and they go from working to nothing in a couple of days riding in the wet if I don't wind them in.
Also you can get flat mount to post mount adaptors. https://www.merlincycles.com/trp-flat-mount-to-post-disc-brake-adaptor-89957.html
I've used TRP hy/rd and Juin Tech R1s and prefer the latter. The TRPs were marginally more powerful when perfectly set up, but they can be a real pain to get spot on - I had to bleed them with the pistons already partly actuated to get them to be powerful at one end and just to stop the lever going to the bars on the other - TRP call it overcharging, basically like there isn't enough mineral oil in them from new, there are several threads about it elsewhere on the net. I owned them for about 5 years and then they gave up on me when I was out on a gravel ride about 50km from home which was nice.
Replaced them with Juin techs and they were good straight out of the box. They actuate from both sides and you adjust the pad distance with a little thumb screw so I adjust every 4-6 weeks of commuting which only takes a minute.
I also swapped the stock rubbish brakes for Juin Tech. The only annoyance is that the pad adjustment screw on the rear brake loosens itself as I ride, so I have to keep adjusting it closer. Hopefully some loctite has sorted that though!
Not on a drop bar bike like the Diverge - hydraulic brifters cost a bloody fortune!
Amen to this, I waited and watched on eBay and eventually managed to nab 2 separate sets of Tiagra 4720 levers, so I'm happily running 2x10 on two curly barred bikes. I would buy some GRX levers but you can't score them for sensible prices, where as every bugger with Tiagra feels the need to offload them and get something fancier...
The BB5s I removed form one of those bikes are now serving (adequately) on my bargain bin CX race bike (that I've not raced for over a year) paired to an old Tiagra 9speed lever.
I also used some Hylex for a bit (with a Gevenalle thumbie adaptation) I loved the idea, but honestly the shape just is not as good as a basic shimano lever IMO, YMMV of course.
The only other thing I've got in the spares bin but need to assemble (probably onto the CX bike at some point) is a Giant "Conduct" system which uses two cable actuated master cylinders built into a bulky stem faceplate and mineral oil to push conventional hydraulic callipers. Hope V-Twin exists also of course and is essentially the same thing.
If you can't tell I like playing with "old" technical dead-ends on my bikes, I only gave up on Rapid rise last year....
Juin tech for me, had then on my gravel/do it all/winter road/commute bike for about 7 or 8 years..just work ..apart from when the cable freezes solid....
Juin tech for me, had then on my gravel/do it all/winter road/commute bike for about 7 or 8 years..just work ..apart from when the cable freezes solid....
This was why I liked the Giant Conduct system. When the caliper mounts to the chain stay you can sometimes get a low point where water can gather and then freeze. I had this a few times using cable brakes on my old London Road. Giant Conduct avoids this as its hydro from the bars down.
Spyres here. I like them but when I first fitted them I genuinely wondered if I’d be able to stop at the bottom if the hill. Stuck with them and after the longest bedding in period I’ve had with any brake they are stopping absolutely fine.
i haven’t experienced much need to adjust them as someone mentioned above so I’m wondering if that is somehow linked to my extended bedding in period.
They don't have to. Mechanical hydro Shimano brifters are available for about £200 a pair on aliexpress.
That's not a full hydro set that fooman suggested though is it?
Yeah. 105 or Grx 12 speed including hydro callipers. 11 speed 105 is a similar price or 10 speed grx is about £160.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005010444109607.html
Iiipro make a system similar to the Giant or Hope hydro system for about £50. There's no reports yet on long term reliability and it's ugly.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008324673203.html
I have always had hydros on mountain bikes. But when building my Stooge Rambler I wanted a different , maybe retro look so I went for TRP Spyres. Despite being told they would never match hydros. With compressionless cables there is plenty of stopping power. although I would say they are not so easy to modulate.
Not on a drop bar bike like the Diverge - hydraulic brifters cost a bloody fortune!
I dunno, there's so much reduced stuff around atm that you can pick up full hydraulics, GRX say for a lot less than you might think. I spent ages tweaking Spyres with compressionless housing, better pads etc etc etc and they were at best 'okay', proper hydraulics blew them out of the water.
TRO Hy/Rd for me, with 10sp Dura Ace mechanical shifter for the front, and a TRP Hylx full hydraulic for the rear, as I've got a single ring. Can't fault them, other than the front caliper being really ugly.