My favouritest ever Berghaus airfoil jackets have recently died after nigh on 15 years.
There's were brilliant. Tough material, no frills, adequately water resistant, windproof and quite breathable. I used them for 99% of all my winter riding.
After 15 years I find myself in a miasma of soft-shells and membrane jacket marketing and I'm none the wiser.
I recently bought a Rab Vital jacket thinking it would be ok, but its about as breathable as a plastic bag!
What I want is a pertex style shell jacket with no insulation and great breathability designed for high output.
Does a thing like this even exist anymore?
keela neutronic.
Rab Vapour Rise. Brilliant for high output activity, but not particularly water resistant. As long as you are working hard you remain warm though.
Assume you just want an uninsulated shell? Here's one that looks ok:
If you're happy to pay a sqillion pounds then I've been really impressed by my Arcteryx Psiphon jacket.
Paramo ostro great bit of kit
I have one of the those rab vital windshells. Also agree not very breathable - I find it really sweaty. I have an endura MT500 jacket and despite that being a proper waterproof it's night and day better breathability wise. The advantage of that vital jacket is that it is very windproof and packable.
You'd find pretty much any quality waterproof jacket or other windproof more breathable than that Rab jacket. Montane, Paramo, Haglofs all do nice windproofs.
I have a Rab Vital, I got it to replace an ageing Montane Singletrack Pertex jacket, the Rab doesn't seem any less breathable than the Montane to me.
One thing that does annoy me about the Rab Vital is the half-elasticated cuffs that prevents me pushing the sleeves up when I need to cool down a bit.
I'm really sweaty though and i on ever wear a jacket if it's raining or zub-zero, rest of the time it's a combination of layers depending on the temperature and a gilet with windproof front/mesh rear.
Vital is a great wee jacket for what it's intended for which ain't high intensity activity.
I don't even think it's advertised as breathable? Could be wrong though.
I chuck mine on when out on the hills, leaving the safety of a sheltered Glen and going out onto an open summit, like I did on Saturday. Plenty warm enough climbing tussocky hills like mullwharchar, 30mph piercing NWerly as soon as you pop up. Vital goes on then, takes the chill right off you, coffee, snacks and dicking about taking pics becomes a lot more bearable.
I had a Montane Dyno made from a more open Pertex - it wasn't completely windproof. Being so open was a compromise, the upside of which was it was very good at dealing with moisture.
My old Tog24 with removable arms and mesh sides was great too.
And the real answer is wear such a layer as little as possible.
Aye, the dyno was a nice balance for cycling, I never really replaced it, just used my Gore phantom instead which in reality gets a bit warm too.
Yes, the Vital isn't particularly sold on its breathability. I had assumed that due to its fine nature it would breathe - seems I was wrong.
The montane dyno sounds like just the thing - but its described as a softshell, which immediately says 'hot and sweaty' to me. Am I wrong to be thinking that these days?
Also, I dont really care about water proofness beyond shower resistance, which I can wash in myself.
Because I run hot - typically 1 layer less than my peers in winter - My layering approach is warm, breathable and fast drying over the 'I'm sweating in a plastic bag, but at least the rain isn't getting through' approach.
My layering approach is warm, breathable and fast drying over the ‘ I’m sweating in a plastic bag, but at least the rain isn’t getting through’ approach.
My ethos too, and Dyno fitted it perfectly, was a few years ago mind so may have changed, but I don't think so.
I have no experience of the dyno. Would you take a look at whats available and see how it compares to you old one?
I'm reasonably sweaty and I don't bother with pertex style jackets any more.
I just have a few thin softshells, which I believe are more breathable than my old pertex jacket anyway.
Unfortunately I can't point you at a specific thin softshell, but it might be worth buying a few in the sales to try - or looking at running ones which may be designed for higher intensity work.
Freewheel have some good prices on Madison stuff this week.
That's the Dyno XT - I think that's the Dyno with a DWR coating?.
Not sure if this is the sort of thing worth considering: https://www.freewheel.co.uk/madison-flux-super-light-men-s-waterproof-softshell-jacket-varmcl20s00.
I too seem to run hotter than those I ride with, and struggle to find something that works for me. The above is good for me in <10degC temps with a thin baselayer underneath. It does get a bit clammy if I'm really trying, but it's the best of the lot I've used so far. Anything warmer I try and manage with layering plus a Gore Windstopper gilet, but arms suffer in the windchill with that setup.
I just have a few thin softshells, which I believe are more breathable than my old pertex jacket anyway.
Hmmm. *strokes beard*.
List a few, if you would be so kind.
@Ally - thanks. That looks like a membrane jacket, I remain skeptical on the durability or adequate breathability of membrane jackets for mtb!
Does a thing like this even exist anymore?
I think all three of these are pretty much what you're after, no frills lightweight ripstop. Offhand I think Morvelo used to do a similar thing as well, but may not anymore as their stock lines seem to be almost exclusively roadie these days
That’s the Dyno XT – I think that’s the Dyno with a DWR coating?.
Dunno. Theres only one other listed, which appears to be heavier weight.
IIRC mine was a dyno stretch, was 'blue steel' with red zips, can't find it online any more, mibbe worth pinging them to ask?
I have a Rab thin softshell. Seems very breathable and water resistant. I cannot find the exact model
Rab Vapour rise certainly seems to fit the bill.
It does look like lightweight, very breathable wind resistance has moved from pertex style shells to lightweight softshells.
Time to dig further in this direction - recommendations welcome.
I have a Rab thin softshell. Seems very breathable and water resistant. I cannot find the exact model
Could it be this? I followed a link on their site when looking at the Vapour Rise jacket and seems to be thin softshell: https://rab.equipment/uk/borealis-jacket
Arc'teryx Incenco Hoody, designed for running, mesh panels under arms for ventilation, works pretty well on a bike. Expensive.
Outdoor Research Tantrum II - slightly stretchy, highly wind resistant rather than fully windproof. works well if you run hot.
The problem with fully windproof, Pertex-styles fabrics, originally based on parachute material, is that they're woven super tightly to make them windproof, this also makes them reluctant to let vapour out. PU-coated fabrics are even worse. Membrane-based stuff like Gore Windstopper similarly sweaty. What you need ideally is a fabric that's highly wind resistant, but not quite 100% wind proof. Like the stuff Rab uses for the outside shell on Vapour Rise kit, which is a Pertex fabric, but not a fully windproof one.
List a few, if you would be so kind.
Sorry mine are all out of production, but BadlyWiredDog does outdoors gear for a living IIRC (?) - so I'd heed his words.
Oh, and I know a few folk with the Rab Borealis, all of them rave about how good it is.
Loving my Borealis so far.
The old style vapour rise (pertex equilibrium outer and pile inner) was astonishingly good. Probably the only ‘outdoors’ fabric that exceeded the marketing claims. It was so good at moving moisture the inner fabric felt dry when it came out of the washing machine!
The new vapour rise is a bit rubbish in comparison. They’ve changed the outer fabric to be a bit more wind proof but the inner fabric is no longer pile and doesn’t wick. Massively disappointed with it and have complained to Rab, who did reply to say their tests found the new material better.
Personally I think they’ve messed up with the inner fabric- water beads off it like it’s been coated in DWR so no wonder it doesn’t wick moisture very well. I found several posts on the U.K. climbing forums saying the same. Apparently it gets better after multiple washes, which is probably because the DWR coating in the inside washes off.
It does look like lightweight, very breathable wind resistance has moved from pertex style shells to lightweight softshells.
All three of the ones I've linked to are breathable windproof pertex shells in the old-skool stylee
Oh, and I know a few folk with the Rab Borealis, all of them rave about how good it is.
If it fits Sir... I've always found Rab sizing weird, but the Borealis has an shape all of it's own. I've a L and it looks and feels like I'm a child wearing my dad's clothes, the M on the other hand was made for a person with T-Rex alike arms...
I had a Rab Vapour Rise Flex a couple of years ago, I tried biking in it but it was just too hot.
Had a Montane Dyno the Pertex Equilibrium version from about 10 years ago, didn't like that for biking either even though lots of people raved about them, I found the body too short and boxy, not being stetchy fabric it wasn't that comfortable and it wasn't very windproof either.
Rab Borealis tour (or pull-on), it is slightly more weight than pertex and probably won't fold down quite as small, but it is much more breathable and is nicely stretchy.
Rapha Lightweight Trail
+1
Rapha do a lot of Pertex shells, but they don't seem to have any in their winter range right now. I've got a couple of Rapha Roadie Pertex wind shells.
FFS I really need to stop looking at jacket threads!!
What you need ideally is a fabric that’s highly wind resistant, but not quite 100% wind proof.
This is exactly what I'm after.
That Borealis is currently no.1 on the hit list.
Anyone have experience of the Alpkit Morphosis?
Loving my Borealis so far.
@mrb123, what sort of conditions are you using it in? Trying not to divert from the OP although it appears I'm looking for something very similar. My concern is always about overheating and finding I'm too hot (!) for most jackets than the majority of folk cope fine with.
For walking I have a ME Echo jacket - just a Pertex equivalent shell.
It's a very tough material, ideal for climbing / scrambing and probably MTB.
https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/collections/mens-jackets/products/echo-hooded-jacket#
They do an even lighter shell:
https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/collections/mens-jackets/products/aerofoil-full-zip-jacket
A11y - I bought the Borealis primarily as a summer weight windproof layer for hill walking. After a thread of my own on here I initially bought a Montane Pertex jacket but returned it as found it far too flappy in the wind.
Having also bought a lightweight waterproof, I can now carry the Borelis, waterproof and light fleece for the same weight and pack size of my existing (fairly heavyweight) Mammut softshell.
I've also been wearing the Borealis for long mountain runs in the cold and it has been great for that that too. It's probably not the most windproof softshell available, which consequently improves the breathability.
Rarely for Rab, the fit works for me (I'm tall and lanky) as it's far less boxy than most of their stuff and has good sleeve length.
Finally, I picked it up for a little over £60 which makes it one of the best value bits of kit I've bought in a long time.
Having also bought a lightweight waterproof, I can now carry the Borelis, waterproof and light fleece for the same weight and pack size of my existing (fairly heavyweight) Mammut softshell.
Encouraging as I've just bought one - I also do the lightweight waterproof as necessary thing. Although it really has to be actual proper rain for me to justify it.
Borealis won because its stretchy and will fit over my elbow pads!
@mrb123, thanks for this info. Like @Scienceofficer above, I think I may too be buying one of these. Comment re fit is useful also as I'm also tall and lanky(ish) and I've found Rab sizing hit or miss in the past. One negative about the Madison Flux Softshell I'm currently using is the cut is too baggy in the size I needed for the body and sleeve length.
Anyone have experience of the Alpkit Morphosis?
Apologies, missed that query earlier. I bought one a couple of years ago for exactly this sort of use (biking in cooler but dryish autumn/winter/spring conditions), thinking the non-insulated sides would be helpful. Wore it a couple of times in sub/close-to-zero conditions and it was still too warm for me even with just a baselayer underneath. Probably find for a non-sweaty giffer! I now use it as a walking/casual jacket and it's superb for that: versatile for different temps where I'm not working as hard as on the bike, great cut for me. I recently bought the vest version too but cut is slimmer than the jacket so I've just returned it until I can get into a store to try on the bigger size.
Seems like the Morphosis wasn't going to be right then.
Since the borealis isn't 100% windproof, I'm hoping the extra ventilation will off set the warmth as well as kick up the moisture removal. I'll find out soon enough.
On the Borealis sizing, for info I'm 6'4", 39 chest, 32 waist. Medium is bang on.
Evening.
Update on this thread.
The short version is the borealis is great for what I want it for. In still conditions its a bit warmer than my oldstyle woven nylon windproof, but thats a simple matter of adjusting the underlyer. In normal conditions with a bit of wind it seems to be just right - not cold and not hot. Breathability is pretty good.
Its more comfy than previous because its stretchy and doesn't flap. I'm so pleased with it that I bought two.
Fit - I'm 182cm a short 6ft, with a 42 inch chest and 34 inch waist. Large is fine but not generous, medium would have been too tight.
What? How dare you not go with MY suggestion?!
Large is fine but not generous, medium would have been too tight.
I'm 5'10" and 32" waist and 40" chest, and while the Med fits me better, the sleeves end mid way down my forearms, I've a L that sits in my wardrobe as really it's too big...Might sell it on at some point.
I'm a sweaty giffer when riding & my old Montane Dyno is getting a little tired, I'm blaming this thread for forcing me into ordering a Rab Borealis!
What? How dare you not go with MY suggestion?!
Err. Is it me, or is that your first contribution to the thread?
Is confused.
Rab momentum, front slightly more windproof than a borealis, back a different material much more breathable, I run hot and run in mi e and MTB in it, great top
https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/rab56/rab-momentum-pull~on-top-~-ss21/?_cur=1&utm_campaign=uk-unpaid-shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_content=Momentum+Pull-on+Top&utm_term=URLrefresh&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-ODUwJ399AIVEe3tCh2PdABCEAQYCCABEgLLxvD_BwE#sku-rab56
So do I need one of those Momentum tops as well as my Borealis??
Instead of borealis
Default answer to breathable windproof is Montane Featherlight, no?
The puzzle I have with these more breathable windproofs is that they seem to be rather short of ventilation. My default windproof is a Paramo Enduro which looks like a full-on mountaineering jacket and is very windproof and not that breathable (for something without any coatings or membranes - obviously it’s better than all of them). But it’s got huge pit zips from waist to elbow, a full double-ended zip and wide velcro cuffs, so it’s easy to vent.
I like the idea of a lighter more breathable windproof but obviously there’s little point if it’s no better in warmer conditions but lacks as much protection when it’s colder.
Default answer to breathable windproof is Montane Featherlight, no?
No, I find pertex shells about as breathable as a bin liner.