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For the record, I'm not defending any product. Both hope and shimano make great brakes. I do take exception to an individual claiming to be the definitive authority based on working in a bike shop and suggesting that others opinions are not valid based on their own experiences.
Only on STW can someone pop up with huge real world experience and get dismissed as a troll. It doesn't mean "someone who has a different opinion to me".
Hope rebuild-ability is a myth; you'd just sell 'em on if they broke and buy some Shimano's instead.
Well, you might 😉
Mind you, I've only replaced a seal once.
😀 I broke a seal on my XTs once; jsut sent them back to the shop and they gave me a new brake!
My Hopes are about 8 years old now. Suspect that might be outside of warranty 🙂
Touche!
Still waiting for one of our sets of hopes to fail.
Had one shimano XT shit its seals, it was ~10 years old, and dual control, so not a massive concern. Replaced it with more XT, so I have a pile of spare parts now.
Fours sets of Shimano brakes in this household. The XT,SLX and Deore are all faultless. All the power you could ever need. They've been all over the UK and Europe and all they've had is bleeding.
Also I have Saint's on my DH bike which have never worked properly. Horrible lever feel, pulling to the bars then pumping up. Inconsistent power. I've bled them over and over again. The ice tech rotors melted. Not what you want on the bike you use to throw yourself down mountains.
They've had me considering Hope's for the first time since it was Hope vs. Hayes. But they're so big and chunky and ugly and expensive, I can't get turned on about them.
(mr boring arrives at the thread)
i really want to like Hope brakes, but i don't want umpteen dials on my brake levers, i don't want titanium bolts, i don't want 4 pots*, i don't want vented or floating discs. They're all pointless trinkets.
i understand that the brakes i want would cost 95% of the brakes with all the bells and whistles, but i don't want those bells and whistles. They're annoying.
(bring back the mono-mini?)
(*it's not MOAR POWER!, it's just twice as many seals and pads and etc. 4x 16mm pistons has the same area as 2x 23mm pistons. Just use 23mm pistons FFS)
OP - the XTs should work almost faultlessly. If they don't, or if you just fancy burning money*. get some Hopes.
*I'll have the XTs off you if the price is right.
Zee or Saints will give the feel/modulation of Hope due to the 4-pot design and two of those pistons biting the rotor momentarily before the other two come in.
Yes Deore, SLX and XT can be a bit abrupt but don't pull so hard on the lever!...i only have Saint because they came up cheap in a sale but I can see the difference in feel now even if outright power seems similar.
That said if I was buying new my go to brake is XT, you can get a pair for less than £100 and they'll stop you in the Alps all day long....if anything in the caliper fails buy a new caliper, they're cheap enough on CRC!...likewise if anything in the lever fails replace that, it's even cheaper.
I've never had to bleed Shimano brakes, they work from the box, fit and forget....Avid on the other hand would require bleeding again after a bloody pad change!
[quote="ahwiles"]but i don't want umpteen dials on my brake levers,TBH, I've got a pile of assorted grub screws, and I'm sorely tempted to ditch the dials on my hopes and just bang some grub screws in, I mean, once they are set up, you shouldn't really need to adjust them.
I've had a pair of original Hope Minis on 4 different bikes since 2002. I've stripped and rebuilt them twice in that time and replaced the original from rotor with a bigger one so I could fit some post mount Foxes. All parts for the 2x rebuilds were still available from Hope. If you upgrade your kit regularly then go Shimano, if you want a product that lasts then go Hope.
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My memories of my Hope Minis* mostly involve complaining about how much time I had to spend bleeding them and faffing about.
I don't really have any memories relating to the SLXs I've had for the last 5 years, that's a good thing.
*this info is based on very old Hope brakes, so is possibly irrelevant. Though, possibly not, as I've never had the slightest inclination to swap back.
*this info is based on very old Hope brakes, so is possibly irrelevant. Though, possibly not, as I've never had the slightest inclination to swap back.
It was more a comment on how spares and telephone support are still available for an old product. If Hope are still willing to entertain an old spendthrift git like me then I think the extra ££ initial price you pay for Hope stuff is worth it.
Shimanos. Cheaper, more reliable, easier to set up.
If we're throwing 'dotes around I've heard quite a few horror stories of Hope brakes cooking and fading really badly on long alpine descents. Anyone care to comment?
And +1 for Formula The Ones despite that not being the question asked. 🙂
so its fifty fifty between shimano and hope
one person likes formulas
and everyone hates avids
I'd love a set of Hope but they were just too expensive at the time.
As for Shimano I'd go either Deore or Zee - the latter being ultra powerful, but with way more modulation than SLX/XT.
Northwind - Member
Only on STW can someone pop up with huge real world experience and get dismissed as a troll. It doesn't mean "someone who has a different opinion to me".
+ one millionty.
I know JimJam in a biblical sense. A great shag and very knowledgeable when it comes to bikes. Doesn't make his opinion the only one but hearing his words isn't the same as reading them. I guess that goes for most on here though.
I too somehow manage to get called a troll on here quite a bit (I [b]don't [/b]know my bike stuff) but seem to have a different opinion from the type of people who like to call others a troll. I even got called an idiot last time i was on. And idiot troll. Not that i'm bothered as i'm actually a non-trolling genius 😀
Anyway i only logged in to say i like avid brakes (not trolling btw - i do like them) but i've not tried shimano or hope. Hated my The Ones - again not trolling, just didn't like the stupid amount of power they had.
p.s. 'walking cash holes' 😆
Had new Deore, SLX, XT, XTR. Hope Tech3 X2 and E4. SRAM guide RS.
Best feeling and performig brake so far?
Guides.
Most reliable?
Hope.
Most powerful from the first pull?
Shimano.
Most modulation?
SRAM.
Best servicing ease?
Hope.
Best value?
Deore.
What would I buy, if I were spending on a brand new set of brakes?
Probably Hope E4. I just know they'll be working as good in six months as they were when I bought them, and if I need to fix them its easy peasy.
I've had a few bikes over the last 5-6 years but only one set of brakes hope tech 4's ,never been rebuilt and only bleed once I like them apart from the bulky/out of place looking adjusters on the levers.
well I think you are all wrong and the best choice actually is Hayes El Camino
neither modulation, nor stopping power, nor reliability 😉
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see you in a hedge / tree 😉
Hope suit people who like to tinker with and bleed their brakes endlessly.
I haven't so much shite for a very long time.
Why do people post such drivel?
Well you are trolling.
Bled my hopes once as I moved them from one bike to another in 5 years of ownership. Never had to bleed my Shimano. Both were fine on Alpine holidays, both had sufficient modulation, both had sufficient power.
Avid are shit in comparison.
In the last 10 years or so that I've been using discs, I've had 2 sets, so will only comment on those 2 sets.
Avid Juicy's - shit in every sense
Hope Tech M4's - put them on my Enduro with braided hoses when I built it up almost 7 years ago. They look lovely and work well - they might work a tad better if I ever got round to bleeding them, but they still work fine and have never been bled in all that time. The pads are a doddle to change and by all accounts when they do need bleeding, that's easy too - some nice online tutorials available. I actually use the umpteen dials (all 2 of them on each lever) as they are useful. Whether or not they are the most powerful, I don't care - they work for me and I like them. I pay more for them for the same reason I don't mind paying more for Hope lights
I see your Hayes el camino and raise you a Hayes so1e.
Mmm one piston so you have to keep manually adjusting one as the pads wear? Check.
Auto bleed feature where the little rubber bung falls out of the godawful looking lever and ejects your fluid all over the front wheel? Check.
What were they thinking???
I was a huge fan of shimano deore brakes, one of the best value items i have bought. However had to replace my rear and bought the latest version. The hose needed to be cut and therefore bled. This was not posible without buying a specisl shimano bleed kit and faffing around with syringes, sure, you dont need to do this often but why change a brillant simple design to incorporate a non-beneficial complicated bleeding system. Not happy.
If we're slagging Hayes am I right when I say that people often compared HFX9's to cantis only using wood instead of rubber blocks?
Still loving my E4. The original one that is, thirteen years old now? Lightning rotor is still going as well 😀
The shimano bleed is pretty easy with just one syringe and the funnel, the latter being just another way of topping the reservoir up
JimJams origional comment is very succinct and absolutely spot on IME
As is this comment:
Hope stuff looks great and works well, but I think Hope are handicapped by their need to have anything machined, it makes their stuff bulky and expensive.
I'd also add that it makes them look rather dated these days too, but that's just an opinion, to which I'm entitled.... 🙂
I've come to a conclusion about MTB brakes in general and it goes something like this:
DoT fluid is generally speaking used in average to crap brakes, mineral oil in the good ones. I've just got this feeling that DoT fluid isn't particularly suited to bicycle applications for some reason. Don't ask me why this should be.
Hope are OK, but when Deores are so bloody good and so bloody cheap I can't see how they justify their price.
Finally though, as long as you steer clear of Avid/SRAM brakes you'll probably be OK.
The hose needed to be cut and therefore bled. This was not posible without buying a specisl shimano bleed kit and faffing around with syringes, sure, you dont need to do this often but why change a brillant simple design to incorporate a non-beneficial complicated bleeding system. Not happy.
I've cut literally dozens of Shimano hoses. At one point I built a run of 12 ambulance bikes for Heathrow Airport (in use now) all of which had Deore hydraulics. 24 hoses cut, not one needed bleeding. I must have done somerhing in the region of 75-100 Shimano hoses in total, and I can only remember having to bleed one after the hose sprang out of my hand and flicked some fluid out. If you're careful and methodical it's quick and easy.
Syringes? Cheap and clean. A Shimano bleed kit is one syringe and a length of tubing. A few pence. (Again, see Avid/SRAM if you want a faff...) bleeding Shimano is quick and easy, 2 minutes a brake tops, and the fluid doesn't peel the paint off the levers over time. Same for Magura and Tektro.
All Shiamno brakes bleed the same, push new fluid through from the calliper. They've never changed that one little bit! You can either take the cap off the master cylinder and suck excess out with another syringe or screw the special cup into the bleed port on newer brakes in the cap to catch it. (Part number SM-DISC, rrp £3.99)
Sell all your brakes and buy Saints.
Poddy is right, if you're careful you usually don't need to bleed them. I had to bleed one because I was removing it from an internal brake route, so it got flapped about too much while I removed it- no stress, I rebled it using only the standard syringe and hose, no shimano bleed kit. If you want to make things complicated for yourself, that's fine but you can't blame shimano for that!
The bleed kit probably makes things a bit cleaner, if you want to bleed brakes on your priceless antique rug or something.
Cheers for the thoughts.
Will stick with my Hope Tech M4's, they've been solid for the last few years and I really like them.
Will pass on the new XT brakes to a friend who's in need of an upgrade.
Regards
I have the E4's and I LOVE'EM ! regardless of any weather conditions and regardless of how clarty it gets they stop me !
Coming up to 12 months now of fault free riding...
I had issues when using the shimanos hence why I changed to hopes, it was down to feedback I asked for on here and the people who said they are great were right !
If we're throwing 'dotes around I've heard quite a few horror stories of Hope brakes cooking and fading really badly on long alpine descents. Anyone care to comment?
When I went to the Alps the only person who had brake issues was running Mono M4's. They were fading like nothing on earth. The others were fine though.
If we're slagging Hayes am I right when I say that people often compared HFX9's to cantis only using wood instead of rubber blocks?
The Hayes nines were actally really powerful - they just didn't have an awful lot of lever feel or subtly about their power delivery. I bloody loved mine and the Mags that I had before them. My Stoker four pots were pretty good too.
Hope are OK, but when Deores are so bloody good and so bloody cheap I can't see how they justify their price.
I understand how they justify their price as they are things of engineering beauty (and my original Minis still work well), but it's not an accident all the bikes in our house are now running Deores. The VFM is simply amazing.
mindmap3 - MemberWhen I went to the Alps the only person who had brake issues was running Mono M4's. They were fading like nothing on earth. The others were fine though.
Isn't the mono m4 about a 10 year old brake now? Seems a little unfair, to judge old kit by new standards, if nothing else who knows what the maintenance has been like. And user makes such a difference too. I'd happily take my ancient oros off my commuter, change the fluid and use them in the alps but there's not many old brakes that can really compete with new even if they're in perfect nick.
Isn't the mono m4 about a 10 year old brake now? Seems a little unfair, to judge old kit by new standards
i'm sure hope may have got better but I moved to shimano as a result of the mono mini and mono M4's. I'm not moving back anytime soon.
If we're throwing 'dotes around I've heard quite a few horror stories of Hope brakes cooking and fading really badly on long alpine descents. Anyone care to comment?
Not for me, 17st rider, a week of riding down Whister Bike Park and a week of Morzine/Les Gets the year before on Tech V2s never cooked or faded massively.
In Whistler especially I was dragging a lot of brake as I wasn't really physically or mentally ready to ride such steep stuff. I bleed them mid-way through both times as a precaution and they were a little better afterwards so I guess they were (very slowly) getting worse.
Of course V2s were/are their DH brake and have massive callipers and pads.
Saying that, my Deores have been to the Alps twice, the rear shit it's seal after about 2 years so I replaced the calliper and I bled them afterwards just to be sure there wasn't anything in the system - I did the front at the same time for the sake of it. That is the only maintenance they've ever needed.
Hope. it's as clear at night and day. I have the short term luxury of having 2 mountain bikes at the mo, one with Hope Tech 3 E4's on and the other with XT's, both sets of brakes are pretty new. Six month ago, I would have said XT's and had briefly tried bikes with hope brakes on, and wasn't totally convinced, but after spending time on a bike with hope's on, they are so much better in feel and response, both have loads of power and would even say the xt's have more, it's just the hopes just have way more control. It took about an hour of riding to feel comfortable with the hope brakes, and to get over that, "are they powerful enough" feel, because they definitely are. I have bled both sets of brakes after shortening lines and never had a problem with either.
As for weight Hope tech E4's weigh less than XT's not by much, so I wouldn't really give a monkeys unless weight is everything to you.