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Just got a new bike with deore xt brakes , the latest one's. In terms of performance (stopping power & feel) how do these compare with hope tech evos M4s? Can't try them to compare, as they're new in box, and will prefer to sell them as new if they aren't a massive improvement.
Unless i'm thinking of something different the Hopes will probably have a bit more power as they're 4 pot rather than 2 on the XTs.
Saying that I've ran XT brakes and still using the original ones on the rear and they work great.
Never had an issue with Shimano brakes, they just don't look as bling as the Hopes i guess.
I like Hope brakes and have the techX2 on a bike, but to be honest, with the XT's on my Rocket I never felt under-braked during a week in the Alps and had no issues what so ever-no fade, no squeal and the pads were only half worn at the end.
I had 203f/180r rotors-standard not icetech- and finned pads
Considering the price difference......
Nothing wrong with Shimano but Hope are better
Hope brakes are superb and will last and last. Beautifully made like all Hope products I have purchased.
its subjective really, Hope look nice and can be rebuilt and have good support, whereas XT's are common but, are also the benchmark brake. Never ever had a problem with my XT's from XC on the south downs to flat out WC DH courses in the alps and wouldn't replace them for anything else. Utterly perfect in my opinion
Overall power won't be very different at all.
They way they deliver the power will be. Hopes have a lot more modulation, whereas the Shimano's, well, don't.
Hope are better but it's marginal and given how much you'll get selling both sets I would sell the Hope and keep the XT.
FWIW, the performance increase is no where near the increase in price.
If you sell the hopes now, by the time the shimanos die, you'll probably be able to replace them 2 or 3 times over for the money you get for the hopes.
Only time I've got hopes is when I'm either upgrading from something truly awful or I haven't got any brakes at all. If I have XT, they just stay where they are.
They way they deliver the power will be. Hopes have a lot more modulation, whereas the Shimano's, well, don't.
^this
I prefer the hope E4's but there is no way on earth that they are worth the extra ££££££££££ you'd need to change.
Not this shit again.
In a nutshell, Hope are endlessly rebuildable which is good, because they need to be. Shimano are extremely reliable but spares aren't really available so you just replace the lever or caliper if it goes wrong.
Both are better than most people require and going from one to the other will feel strange. Hope suit people who like to tinker with and bleed their brakes endlessly. Shimano suit people who like their stuff to work.
shimano zee for me
jimjam +1
My last set of hopes lasted about 10 years with zero maintenance. Utterly reliable apart from the threaded brake lever bolt after about 8 years. Needless to say they sent me a new lever for free. Probably bled them every few years? Current m4s are just over 2 years old and have been bled once, mainly because I changed to some blue braided hoses. If I already had XT then I wouldn't bother, I wouldn't say they are expensive, rather that shimano have just become so cheap! For me the customer service has bought my loyalty. Compared to my slxs on another bike they are more power and the modulation is far better.
If you are bleeding them every 5 minutes I would suggest your doing something very wrong.
seeing as you can buy a complete set of XT brakes for about £90, you won't be getting much for a second-hand set. (they are, even if you haven't ridden them)
use them until they die and in a couple of years time decide the expense of hope really isnt worth it.
Jimjam has it.
Not this shit again.In a nutshell, Hope are endlessly rebuildable which is good, because they need to be. Shimano are extremely reliable but spares aren't really available so you just replace the lever or caliper if it goes wrong.
Both are better than most people require and going from one to the other will feel strange. Hope suit people who like to tinker with and bleed their brakes endlessly. Shimano suit people who like their stuff to work.
What a load of rubbish. Hope's don't need to be rebuilt continuously, they are just as reliable as Shimano's. Follow the instructions, bleed them properly and look after them (like you should with any brakes) and they won't go wrong.
As Hob Nob mentioned above, there is a clear difference between the modulation. I've tried shimano brakes, couldn't fault the stopping power, but didn't like the lack of modulation.
Yep. Hobnob's comments are far more relevant than jimjams.
I'd have the Hopes personally, out of those 2 (*). Not because of power, the XTs have shitloads, but for delivery. Trouble is, this is a personal thing, there's no such thing as right feel. The value and performance of the current Shimanos is ludicrous.
When you think about it... The depreciation you'll get taking the XTs for a ride is way less than the cost of screwing it up and selling the wrong brakes. No substitute for trying it here IMO.
(* I'd sell both and get a set of Formula The Ones, personally, but that is not the question)
Sir HCWhat a load of rubbish.
wrecker - MemberYep. Hobnob's comments are far more relevant than jimjams.
My sample size is based on hundreds of bikes sold, hundreds of after market brakes sold and warranty info based on thousands of brakes sold. But carry on recommending things based on what you and your mates have, and shit you read on forums.
Also worth noting
Shimano suit people who like their stuff to work.
That's not necessarily the case.
There are plenty of stories regarding Shimano & inconsistent lever feel, despite no apparent issue (no leaks/seal issue/bleed needs).
FWIW, i'm not really 'pro' any brake - I have some E4's and some XTR's. I still think some sort of hybrid M9000 race lever (without the nasty servo wave)/Saint caliper would be one of the best options out there for me 🙂
I'd imagine there's a shitload more shimano brakes out there, so more likely to be more issues tbh, goes without saying.
Never really got the modulation issue tbh, maybe if your a brake dragger it's an issue, I do try not to do that, but sometimes when I'm tired I drag em a bit. Not an issue for me though.
Depends on your riding style. If you're aggressive and ham fisted and skid to scrub speed rather than controlled deceleration then use the XT's as you don't need any modulation. If you're a smoother rider you will appreciate the feel you get from the Hope brakes.
Shimano's brakes are throw away parts. They always seem to get to a couple of years old and need new seals which means a new calliper/lever. They are so cheap and do almost as good a job as the Hopes for 50% of the price.
My sample size is based on hundreds of bikes sold, hundreds of after market brakes sold and warranty info based on thousands of brakes sold. But carry on recommending things based on what you and your mates have, and shit you read on forums.
I couldn't care less how many you have sold. The people on here are users and their/our opinions are at least as relevant as your supposed sales point of view. This isn't a "sales assistant only" thread.
Modulation isn't about brake dragging it's about nice progressive brakes. Being able to slow down without locking a wheel. The hopes make it easier so you don't lock up and leave brake bumps into corners all the time.
wreckerI couldn't care less how many you have sold. The people on here are users and their/our opinions are at least as relevant as your supposed sales point of view.
No actually it's not. That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
Why, because you sell them? The Op wasn't asking for sales advice, he wanted to know what they are like to live with and you can only know that from using them, not exchanging boxes for money.
wreckerWhy, because you sell them? The Op wasn't asking for sales advice, he wanted to know what they are like to live with and you can only know that from using them, not exchanging boxes for money.
Ah, right. So that's what people in bike shops do is it? Exchange boxes for money?
Just to bring you up to speed, there are often people on the end of that money. They have faces and holes in their faces that they speak out of. If their brakes continually fail or need maintenance these walking cash holes return to the place they bought the item from and complain.
In the scenario where these (lets call them customers) buy a bike they'll often ask about the components on that bike. Components like the brakes for instance. After a period of riding said bike they will return it to the shop for a service. This is generally an accepted point at which the person who sold the bike will engage in a dialogue with walking cash hole about the good and bad point of the bike. Walking [s]cash holes[/s], sorry customers generally don't hold back when it comes to complaining, particularly a fairly important component like brakes.
Often, they'll return many times to the same shop to have their bike serviced or have any faults repaired, and the cynical cash stealers will get to know them (amazing I know). Over time they might get to know a lot of [s]cash holes[/s],customers a lot of bikes and a lot of components. Thereby building a knowledge base that far exceeds the average individual.
HTH
OK, so lets see the stats for your sales and returns for different brake brands then? Or is your evidence as anecdotal as the rest of ours is?
I don't buy this nobody knows shit compared with a LBS worker at all. I've met plenty of clueless bike shop workers as I'm sure you have customers.
This was a fairly informative and helpful thread until you waded in with your superior knowitall "not this again" attitude, well done you.
wreckerOK, so lets see the stats for your sales and returns for different brake brands then?
I quit that job.
wrecker
Or is your evidence as anecdotal as the rest of ours is?
No. Yours is anecdotal as it's from a small sample. That's what anecdotal is. HTH
wreckerI don't buy this nobody knows shit compared with a LBS worker at all.
Good for you. Keep believing what you believe.
"In a nutshell, Hope are endlessly rebuildable which is good, because they need to be. Shimano are extremely reliable but spares aren't really available so you just replace the lever or caliper if it goes wrong.
Both are better than most people require and going from one to the other will feel strange. Hope suit people who like to tinker with and bleed their brakes endlessly. Shimano suit people who like their stuff to work."
BAHAHAHHAAHAA - in the world where i actually ride my bike several sets of shimano XTs have proven to be extremely unreliable and succeptable to destruction through heat with sintered pads Or their resin pads lasting approximatly 12 second. The deores actually faired better than their XTS
My hopes all 2 pots - all bought used except my race X2s on my race bike on the other hand have not needed rebuilt ever and working brilliantly - cope with using sintered pads on long descents and thus get excellent pad life.
But shimano are very cheap new and easy for a salesman to sell on pricealone.
Did you read the original post? 🙂The Op wasn't asking for sales advice
No. Yours is anecdotal as it's from a small sample. That's what anecdotal is. HTH
I don't think you understand what anecdotal means.
trail_ratBAHAHAHHAAHAA - in the world where i actually ride my bike several sets of shimano have proven to be extremely unreliable and succeptable to destruction through heat with sintered pads Or their resin pads lasting approximatly 12 seconds
My hopes- all bought used except my race X2s on my race bike on the other hand have not needed rebuilt ever and working brilliantly - cope with using sintered pads on long descents and thus get excellent pad life.
Awwwwww mate, you sound awesome. In my world, where I actually ride my too, my brakes also work extremely well, have done for years.
wreckerI don't think you understand what anecdotal means.
Snappy comeback, that's me schooled.
From a sample size of 2 (bikes) I've not noticed a huge amount of difference, they work by stopping the bike when I want.
I'm just heading down to the cat rescue to pick up some kittens 8)
Snappy comeback, that's me schooled.
Welcome! Happy to help. Those who can, teach and all that.
im beginnign to wonder if he and bartyp are one and the same troll wrecker.....
It's funny. I had a conversation a few years ago with a brand manager of a british bike brand discussing companies using this forum for a form of stealth advertising. They would periodically create threads, essentially the same threads, and fanboys would leap to the defence of their preferred product.
I asked if it really happened (wasn't sure) and he told me he knew people and that was part of their job. Orange were the brand I most strongly suspected, he nodded and told me there was another large british company doing and couldn't say who they were. Hmmmmmmmmm
Don't question the all knowing bike shop god! He will smite thee!
The delivery may be questionable but he is right on the point about jimjam's point being anecdotal. Of course that doesn't make it invalid and if you trust him as an impartial source then the sample size tends to make it more reliable anecdotal evidence than wrecker's smaller sample but it still comes down to impartiality.
I've known many bike shop employees who are far from impartial. I've known many others who were very balanced. People, eh?
( I also worked in a bike shop so I'm right, OK 😉 )
so you work for shimano/madison then 😉
trail_rat - Memberso you work for shimano/madison then
No, I used to work for CRC.
Me? Hope on my bikes though I suspect that Shimano are nowadays a better product overall. Equally I expect it's tiny margins and that both are good and some people just like to argue.
jimjam - MemberNot this shit again.
In a nutshell, Hope are endlessly rebuildable which is good, because they need to be. Shimano are extremely reliable but spares aren't really available so you just replace the lever or caliper if it goes wrong.
Both are better than most people require and going from one to the other will feel strange. Hope suit people who like to tinker with and bleed their brakes endlessly. Shimano suit people who like their stuff to work.
Got to agree, from a much smaller pool of the 15 or so riders in our extending riding group our experience pretty much matches this.
Hope stuff looks great and works well, but I think Hope are handicapped by their need to have anything machined, it makes their stuff bulky and expensive.
Oddly despite what other people have said my Tech V2 were like an on/off switch - one that operated an anchor because they were massively powerful, more powerful than any other brake I've ever used - but of course we're not talking about V2, my Non-Evo M4s were the same but less so. Lovely, lovely brakes.
My Shimano Deore brakes are sublime though, I only bought them as a 'get me by' when I needed something quick and cheap, that was more than 2 years ago now, I've never felt the need to change them - Alpine descents, yeah no problem do a load of them, get home, keep riding.
It really depends what you're after, but there's no way in hell, that I'd put either in the spares box to spend money on the other, they're both good, if I was starting from nothing I'd buy Shimano because I can get a set of Deores, SLX or XT for far, far less than Hope and frankly I wouldn't care which, they're all good.
As for ease of use / ownership, no maker can hold a candle to Shimano, not one, they're very reliable apart from a tendency to shit caliper seals now and again - if that happens with most manufacturers you buy a seal kit for £20, spend an hour getting horrible DOT brake fluid everywhere, rebuild them, bleed them, bleed them again and it'll probably work - with Shimano, you just buy a new caliper - they cost about £7 more than the pads they come with, you unscrew the old one, screw in the new one - ride.
I'm a Shimano fanboy and have been since I bought some original Saint brakes. Most of mine have been pretty reliable - the only ones that I've had issues with were a set of XT's. My Deore's are ace especially when you consider they cost £65 for the piar. The Zee brakes that replaced the XT's have proved to be super reliable and ver powerful.
I quite like sharp brakes, but I used to really like Hayes brakes when a lot of people thought they were wooden and grabby.
I'm pretty 'meh' about Hope these days - I gave up on their brakes after the Mini lever. All the brakes that I used Mini, M4, Mono series were bad. Really bad. It was at this tme that I went Shimano.
These days they may well be very good brakes but are they worth the extra compared to Shimano? It's a big fat no from me. I don't like the CNC look or clump levers either.