[Closed] Bizarre email from parish council to local cycling clubs.

Esquire?

Seems fair enough to me?

Crusty Juggler!

Replies, "thank you very much for your letter, we've decided to take on board your concerns and will be moving our decades established club run cake stop to the tea rooms in the village next door but one. Regards etc etc"

Having attended a few parish council meetings in my time, the email isn't surprising at all.

Hard to know if there is genuinely poor riding involved, or whether just being in a bunch travelling at 20+ mph is enough to get the net curtains twitching.

Reply courteously, asking if there is any evidence that your club is involved so you can investigate further.

thank them for their concern and return them an edited version substituting car for cyclist and suggest to be fair they forward the similar comments to the AA and RAC

*yes I know these are now commercial organisations

Just asking for a little common sense isn't it?

Also ask if the "fast" that is being travelled at is below the speed limit

Some people have too much time and energy to waste...

In this instance I'm not sure if it's him for writing it, or you for telling us.

Well I'd check the email carefully (if you can in your email) and find out if it really came from the council - emails can be faked. Also you should/may be able to get Parish council meeting minutes online/post/carrier pigeon/village hall - or phone him and check.

To be fair it might be a lot simpler and maybe they got whinged at at a Parish Council meeting.

If you want to be proactive go to the next meeting, ask for an item on the agenda and discuss their concerns. If it's simply that cyclists are travelling at a safe speed within the correct lane then explain the highway code, probably very slowly and loudly for the hard of understanding.

Obviously for the common good.

This will come from those with too much time on their hands moaning about cyclists at a parish council meeting, the poor bugger who wrote that letter will have been assigned the action to deal with it.

I know this because I once attended a parish council meeting, once was enough...

Obviously for the common good.

What the heck is wrong with that? It seems very polite to me. So someone has some concerns. The title of the thread seems to suggest your attitude is that they should just get over it. I would suggest maybe contacting them. Show a bit of concern and interest in their issues and you are not a load of arrogant mamils that think it is their right to mount their steeds and cruise the highways.

Typical Parish council letter, based on my experience. I suggest you reply and asked for an item about road safety to be put on the next meeting, when you can explain how you see it.

Polite and sensible. Response to be the same.

GEDA - Member

What the heck is wrong with that? It seems very polite to me. So someone has some concerns. The title of the thread seems to suggest your attitude is that they should just get over it. I would suggest maybe contacting them. Show a bit of concern and interest in their issues and you are not a load of arrogant mamils that think it is their right to mount their steeds and cruise the highways.

While I agree, your post is pointless when it comes to a lot of people on this forum.

What the heck is wrong with that? It seems very polite to me. So someone has some concerns. The title of the thread seems to suggest your attitude is that they should just get over it. I would suggest maybe contacting them. Show a bit of concern and interest in their issues and you are not a load of arrogant mamils that think it is their right to mount their steeds and cruise the highways.

Heretic!

I'd treat it as an opportunity OP, email back and thank them for their concerns, if you have any member's registered and trained with BC/CTC for leading rides mention that fact and state that any feedback which helps you improve the safety of your members is much appreciated. oh and compliment their "beautiful, picturesque village".

Perhaps offer to "Assess the safety" of the village's road layout, signage, lines of sight and put forward suggested improvements for their consideration at the next parish council meeting...

The fact that it's a blanket email to cycling clubs in the area suggests a combination of Reading too many papers and the odd cyclist rolling through the village have got the dusty old duffers all a'fluster... Play along, be polite, contrite and helpful to the point where they just can't find any real fault and they'll eventually stop bothering you...

As for the 'Esq' thing apparently since 1830 esquires in English law include:

The eldest sons of knights, and their eldest sons in perpetual succession
The eldest sons of younger sons of peers, and their eldest sons in perpetual succession
Esquires created by letters patent or other investiture, and their eldest sons
Esquires by virtue of their offices, as Justices of the Peace and others who bear any office of trust under the Crown
Esquires of knights constituted at their investiture
Foreign noblemen
Persons who are so styled under the Royal sign manual (officers of the Armed Forces of or above the rank of Captain in the Army or its equivalent) and eldest sons thereof.
Barristers (but not Solicitors)

So He could be a retired Captain or a Barrister... or a Foreign nobleman... My money's on ex Barrister with an inferiority complex.

So He could be a retired Captain or a Barrister... or a Foreign nobleman... My money's on ex Barrister with an inferiority complex.

Except esq is used to address the cycling club chairman...

Personally I wouldn't go on a club ride led by anything less than a foreign nobleman. 🙂

Seems fair enough, doddery worryworts getting a bit excited about not very much. Get in touch with the other cycle club, attend meeting, show willing, happy doddery worry worts.

Attend the meeting to discuss issues and concerns. It's being open, polite and proactive. It may also be useful if the local beat bobby attends (ours often does) so that the rules of the road and Highway Code can be clarified.

I suggest you reply and asked for an item about road safety to be put on the next meeting, when you can explain how you see it.

Agreed, good opportunity to engage with them and perhaps educate them a little?

Parish council politics are such that if a member of the public has raised concerns, they are obliged to act. The letter seems polite and is simply asking for you to raise awareness with your membership. It won't be the councillors themselves that are complaining, it'll be a local with a bee in their bonnet.

You have two options.
either
A) Contact the writer and offer to attend a meeting to show that your club is taking responsibility to brief your members to ride carefully through the rural idyll. You can ask the clerk to the council for a slot in a future meeting. You can work the politics of the meeting to your advantage by requesting a simple presentation, ensuring that the clerk and chair both understand and agree that you will not be open to public questions, and that any questions from members will be through the chair. Stress that you have no intention of entering an adversarial debate with Mrs Miggins from 1 Church Lane based on Daily Mail headlines and radio 2 sound bites. Use the presentation to show that club riders are polite, responsible members of the community, insured through BC or CTC and that club riding etiquette is designed to increase safety dependant on road and traffic conditions.
Or
B) bum his dog.

This will come from those with too much time on their hands moaning about cyclists at a parish council meeting, the poor bugger who wrote that letter will have been assigned the action to deal with it.

I know this because I once attended a parish council meeting, once was enough...

Tenner says it's this. I used to go to Community Council meetings when I was a village cop. Being paid to be there and having a bit of sport with the outspoken Chairman without him realising made it just about bearable once every six months.

It's polite enough, caring enough but I'd definitely write back asking for the Council to bring up car driving through the village.

You're right of course, maybe I should learn to read...
Or is is the Wolves Wheelers Chairman Known to be a "Foreign Nobleman"? Perhaps Wolverhampton has been declared a principality?

Dear Mr Oakley, I would like to thank you for, and acknowledge receipt of, your Email regarding your concerns over the safety of groups of cyclists passing through the village.

I note with particular concern your comment that cyclists are [i]'travelling fast and in groups spread across the road,[/i] and that they are [i]approaching junctions and sharp corners in a manner that represents a serious risk to both themselves and the potential oncoming traffic.[/i]

Obviously this causes me great concern, however I am uncertain as to whether you are alleging that road traffic offences have been committed, in which case I would have thought that the appropriate point of contact would be the police, or whether your concern is over the road layout and junction design in the village, in which case it occurs to me that the appropriate point of contact would be the highway authority.

Obviously, if we as a club can offer you advice or support in a campaign for the improvement of the road layout to help cyclists pass through the village safely, then we would be keen to do so. Please do not hesitate to contact me if we can be of any further assistance in this regard.

yours Aye,

Club secretary.

I once got a very similar letter, informing me that "concerns had been raised" about the safety of me parking my van on the road outside my house.

It was always parked in the same spot, perfectly legally and safely, and nowhere near a junction or anywhere that bothered any of my neighbours.

It turned out that before I moved in, some old bloke used to park his car there twice a week to go into the pub for an hour, and he wasn't happy so he raised "safety concerns"

"Issues" raised at parish council meetings are obviously not all [b]actual[/b] issues.

What geda said...seemed fair enough email to me

Esq. is a traditional way of addressing a letter to a person whose title you don't know. It avoids, for example, the unimaginable faux pas of calling a Doctor "Mr" . Rather than a reason for derision, it shows that the parish council chair is affording all due respect to the OP, and upholding proper etiquette.

Perhaps we should expect him to start the letter off "Yo Blud " to show he's down with the kids?

Nahhhh, dats just kray bruv

Its a nice way of telling you and your MAMIL mates to get the hell out of our village.

Don't responded!

As soon as you do you will be the first person they contact about anything remotely cycling related even if its got nothing to with you or your club. Have to attend parish meeting etc...

Put their concern to your club as an FYI and leave it at that.

Write back and tell him that the village school gate has always been, and always will remain, the prime sprint point for the 3.30pm midweek bunrun.

Under such circumstances it should be anticipated that riders will be travelling at maximum speed and children should be warned about leaving school safely, as nobody wants to see a 14+ mph collision that might damage your bikes.

then bum his dog

reply, acknowledge full responsibility and in future you will be tearing through the countryside in your cars instead. Also ask how many actual accidents or near-accidents have been reported, rather than potentials..

That seems fair to me tbh. All they are doing is asking people to ride responsibly. I was expecting some nutjob foaming link/post. Apparently its abit of a problem around Box Hill etc Surrey due to Londoners swamping it at weekends etc.

Up until recently, I too would have dismissed this as being a perfunctory follow-up action to nimby concerns at a parish council - I would agree there are too many people with nothing else to do but moan and snipe about others.

However, a few weeks ago, whilst driving, I was very nearly ridden head-on into by a pack of bikes travelling on the margins of safety (within the speed limit, but unsafe for the actual section of road) and it was extremely frightening. If I had not been paying absolute attention and made a near emergency stop, there could have been a nasty incident.

Now as it happens, I knew who the guys were (some were friends) and, in fact, by the time I got in touch the following day words had already been spoken within their ranks - the lead rider was not leading responsibly etc. etc. - so to my mind that was an end to the issue. Were it that this were not the case and that I was a parish council type though, I can see how/why these types of issues may arise.

Our roads are pretty crap, we all need to try to use them together and cyclists being mindful of other road users is just as important as other road users being mindful of them. All IMHO.

Our local parish council also got a similar letter,

BUGGERME PARISH COUNCIL
Clerk: Mr. L.E.A.N ON-ME
John Tiresome, Esquiite,
Chairman,
****ERHAM Wheelers.
Email:
Dear Mr. Tiresome,
Buggerme is a small rural Tory voting village with quiet country lanes,used for dogging activities, a gay/mixed village pub, farm traffic, horse riders and the occasional bus, It attracts a large number of doggers and members of your naturist club who often play/ride the lanes in large groups.
At our recent Parish Council meetings concern was raised that some of these dogging groups are often travelling to fast and in groups spread across the road, approaching junctions and sharp corners in a manner that represents a serious risk to both themselves and the potential oncoming traffic,older people may only get a quick stroke or flash of naked flesh.
Hence we have decided to write to yourselves to register our concern and ask that you
publicise our concern with your club members, and encourage more safety awareness when travelling in our area.
We are keen to welcome doggers and walkers to our lovely village but we do not want to see people injured or worse.
I have also written to Sloughbridge dogging Club in the same context.
Yours sincerely,

I M MASTERBATING

Clerk of the Council

Who said the golden age of comic wit was dead?

Well I still vividly remember the road cyclist who shouted **** off you **** at me when I dare beep him as I was indicating left about to turn and he still powered up from the distance and tried undertaking me.

[i] Apparently its abit of a problem around Box Hill etc Surrey due to Londoners swamping it at weekends etc.[/i]

Certainly is! ****ing lycra clad b@stards everywhere!

Is this you? http://goo.gl/maps/lhWp6

Well I still vividly remember the road cyclist who shouted * off you * at me

Do you not get that a lot though and it was just a coincidence that he was riding a bike?

Yep see plenty of foolish/selfish cyclists when driving or cycling, once reported one to his club as he had his number on in an event - got an apology.

I use www.streetlife.com and try to take a calm approach to dealing with the odd complaint about cyclists that comes up there - I'm in the Surrey Hills so can get flooded with us. Most are accepting but some do get very angry and so I try to explain why cyclists behave in certain ways, such as dominating a lane when it's narrow, to help relationships. I'd be happy to link in with the parish council if it might help things.

project - Member

Our local parish council also got a similar letter,

BUGGERME PARISH COUNCIL
Clerk: Mr. L.E.A.N ON-ME
John Tiresome, Esquiite,
Chairman,
****ERHAM Wheelers.
Email:
Dear Mr. Tiresome,
Buggerme is a small rural Tory voting village with quiet country lanes,used for dogging activities, a gay/mixed village pub, farm traffic, horse riders and the occasional bus, It attracts a large number of doggers and members of your naturist club who often play/ride the lanes in large groups.
At our recent Parish Council meetings concern was raised that some of these dogging groups are often travelling to fast and in groups spread across the road, approaching junctions and sharp corners in a manner that represents a serious risk to both themselves and the potential oncoming traffic,older people may only get a quick stroke or flash of naked flesh.
Hence we have decided to write to yourselves to register our concern and ask that you
publicise our concern with your club members, and encourage more safety awareness when travelling in our area.
We are keen to welcome doggers and walkers to our lovely village but we do not want to see people injured or worse.
I have also written to Sloughbridge dogging Club in the same context.
Yours sincerely,

I M MASTERBATING

Clerk of the Council

Stick with your IT job, comedy isn't your forte.

Zzzzz.

Obviously for the common good.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

I thought that sounded wrong as I typed it, obviously its time to watch it again.

Parish Councils are the third and lowest tier of local government. They have little or no power save for putting in the odd bench or getting a ditch dug. They can cause problems in rights of way debates on footpaths and bridleways but they are little more than a lobby group to the Highway Authrority, which I guess would be Shropshire County Council - who actively promote cycling and would recommend quiet roads and not A roads!

As others have said, it's a polite letter - don't whatever happens allow an impolite reply.

You could, however, as a user of the roads in their village ask that local car drivers respect people on bikes (although as no one ever reads the Parish Council mtg minutes this will not have any effect).

I am on our local Parish Council, and they are tiresome meetings and raise nitty little things like this, as well as objecting to planning applications where inappropriate - they have a purpose, but unfortunately no real power. But they are meant to be the voice of the community in council matters.

It looks like there's been a misunderstanding with some of the replies here, this email wasn't sent to me personally. I'd have thought the email being addressed to [b]John[/b] Ireson and my name being MidlandTrailquests[b]Graham[/b] was a bit of a give away.
I found it on the Bridgnorth Cycling Club Facebook page.

Attending a parish council meeting is a nice idea, but how many villages do both clubs regularly ride through? Would you expect a club member to give up dozens of evenings a year to attend parish meetings at every one?

Do you really think club members are "riding in a manner that represents a serious risk to themselves"? I'm sure the clubs ride thousands of miles a year without any significant incidents caused by the members.

The biggest risk in a village like Beckbury is cars, yet I would guess that most of the parish council drive cars, but don't cycle, so it's easier to ignore the elephant in the room and shift the blame on to someone else.

Go to the next meeting and turn up on your bike, better yet ride into the meeting room on your bike. Circle the table yelling 'hellooo there you doddery old ****wits, Come and get one in the yarbles, if ya have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou'
Continue circling whilst you upset their tea cups and poke out your tongue. Knock grandads hat off and then wheelie out the door but not before farting and/or burping Bicycle Race by Queen.

digga - Member

However, a few weeks ago, whilst [s]driving[/s] [b]cycling[/b] , I was very nearly [s]ridden[/s] [b]driven[/b] head-on into by a [s]pack[/s] [b]continuum[/b] of [s]bikes[/s] [b]cars[/b] travelling on the margins of safety (within the speed limit, but unsafe for the actual section of road) and it was extremely frightening. If I had not been paying absolute attention and made a near emergency stop, there could have been a nasty [s]incident[/s] [b] accident[/b].

Now as it happens, I knew who the guys......etc etc [b]so down the pub we decided we'd better have a good moan at the parish council[/b]

I do struggle with the idea that cyclists have to be the only road users that must never, ever appear to possibly, but rarely actually, act in a way that will cause harm to others

We are keen to welcome cyclists and walkers to our lovely village but we do not want to see people injured or worse.

It all really boils down to your interpretation of this sentence. It could mean:

a) We really do want to welcome people to our village because it is nice, we are nice and we want to you be able to share in it.

Or it could mean:

b) We are a bunch of a narrow-minded NIMBYs who have paid a lot of money for our houses and would prefer to never have to have our insular and smug existence disrupted by anyone, ever. On the other hand, Stanley, who runs the corner shop and is on the council has pointed out that half his income is from passing trade, so we will tolerate you, but only on our terms.

For what it is worth, I think the original letter is probably well-meaning, but some of the sentiment in interpretation b) may well be behind some of it.

My parents are members of their parrish council, twice a year about 12 of them get together and discuss important matters such as "who's turn it is to buy the wine next time" and "approval of the accounts (passing the recipt for the wine to the nominated secretary". Once they had to refuse european funding for a bus stop because there were no busses.

I'm sure the clubs ride thousands of miles a year without any significant incidents caused by the members.

TBh I would reply as ninfan stated and state you always obey the law and say how far you have cycled without any accidents

Attending a parish council meeting is a nice idea, but how many villages do both clubs regularly ride through? Would you expect a club member to give up dozens of evenings a year to attend parish meetings at every one?

No, just the one that wrote the letter.

Clubs are like the ambassadors for the sport aren't they? Don't get the confrontational attitude and I can't see what the problem is with engaging with the communities the club serves (presumably there might even be the odd member from thereabouts?). Like others have said it's an opportunity to be seen positively rather than as a passive aggressive, entitled set of toss pots.

antigee - Member
I do struggle with the idea that cyclists have to be the only road users that must never, ever appear to possibly, but rarely actually, act in a way that will cause harm to others

In the case I mentioned, there was very nearly a head-on. The opinion of other riders, toward the rear of the group, who saw the leaders, was that they [i]were[/i] in the wrong. This was all prior to my commenting on the matter.

FWIW I think it very dangerous for any road user to travel around in a bubble of self-righteous entitlement.

hora - Member
Well I still vividly remember the road cyclist who shouted * off you * at me when I dare beep him as I was indicating left about to turn and he still powered up from the distance and tried undertaking me.

TBF he probably knows you

Firstly, whether you like it or not, all road users have a duty of care to other road users. End of. That's just the law and, to me at least, it seems fairly simple.

True. But you have to ignore an awful lot of far more dangerous behaviour by drivers to highlight a single incident of cyclists behaving badly. There is also quite a good argument that drivers have a far higher duty of care as they're the ones introducing most of the danger to the environment.

aracer - Member

Firstly, whether you like it or not, all road users have a duty of care to other road users. End of. That's just the law and, to me at least, it seems fairly simple.

True. But you have to ignore an awful lot of far more dangerous behaviour by drivers to highlight a single incident of cyclists behaving badly. There is also quite a good argument that drivers have a far higher duty of care as they're the ones introducing most of the danger to the environment

FWIW, I cycle on the road as little as possible, but when I do, as when I'm driving I am generally staggered and appalled by the standards of driving and anticipation around cycles.

As others have said it sounds like someone ahs been given the action of contacting cycling clubs because someone has raised concerns.

I know we occasionally get emails from our Chairman telling us to ride responsibly when we represent the club by wearing the jersey on group rides.

It is just a box ticking excercise. Be polite, move on.

You are unlikely to convince the "concerned" that you are doing nothing wrong and to let the complaint fade away is better than trying to argue with some one with too much time on their hands. It would be like joining in a politics thread on here - futile.

FWIW I think it very dangerous for any road user to travel around in a bubble of self-righteous entitlement.

Agreed, but it seems much more acceptable to use the internet in one.

Fairly polite letter in my opinion.

In the off road world the NIMBYs head to the press and kick up loads of fuss about [url= http://www.surreyhillsmtber.co.uk/239/surrey-advertiser-article/ ]Drunken, Swearing, Hooligans[/url] or being [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-15182884 ]vandals[/url] and getting the police involved (in the latter case I think badger bothering was also an accusation, but turned out the badgers moved in after the trail was built).

p.s. Esquire - my bank used to call me Esquire a long time ago.