Dai Hard- a gap jump, for a trail with no gap jumps, put me off riding the trail for the first couple of visits but it’s just completely inappropriate (this one’s double ironic as it’s been rebuilt completely, but still isn’t relevant.)
A470- irrelevant to the trail, puts people off and ALSO invites people in wrongly-this is me, the first 50 feet or so of A470 says “You’ll love this” and then it totally changes.
agree with both of these points. I'm a terrible jumper (drop offs, comparitively good). I've never done DaiHard because I assume it was all the same.
and I did A470 once, did the quali easily (possibly didnt even notice the other trail to the left) and then got stuck on a jump line I have no business being near.
"Dai Hard- a gap jump, for a trail with no gap jumps, put me off riding the trail for the first couple of visits but it’s just completely inappropriate (this one’s double ironic as it’s been rebuilt completely, but still isn’t relevant.)"
I rode Dai Hard quite a few times before they added the qualifier, it's one of my favourite trails at BPW. I still can't ride the qualifier, full commitment gap jumps just completely psych me out - I carefully mince around it and then ride the rest of the trail quite happily (not super fast but I don't recall ever holding anyone up!)
Haven't been for at least two years now, I miss it! The techy reds and easier tech blacks are my happy zone, could do them all day long. Get a bit scared by the speeds and g forces on the swoopy blues at full pace (and any slower feels a bit of a waste of an uplift) and am too rubbish at jumps to enjoy the jumpy trails. Think I might take the hardtail next time!
chiefgrooveguru
Free MemberI rode Dai Hard quite a few times before they added the qualifier, it’s one of my favourite trails at BPW.
Am I remembering right that the log double quali used to be for a different trail? I remember before they changed the start and removed the shelter that there was a bloody awkward drop quali with railings on either side but I can't really quite get my head around how it all worked.
“ Am I remembering right that the log double quali used to be for a different trail?”
I don’t think so. In the early days there were no qualifiers anywhere. They added them after maybe a year or two, and Dai Hard got that bizarre gap. Was the awkward drop into Enter The Dragon?
Yep, arkward drop was enter the dragon. I've twice seen huge stacks from that qualifier gap - the landing is a sharp edge and quite high; you cant just ride off and hope for the best.
Anyhow I'm done with BPW - the price hikes are a complete joke and over the first lockdown they made a good mate redundant and then put his job up 3 months later with a significantly lower wage.
Ah thanks for that, brain was failing me.
Things I do like about BPW qualifiers: the Dai Hard gap is a totally inappropriate qualifier for Dai Hard, but is pretty much ideal for Blackadder, which is now accessed by the same start and was built years later. But Blackadder has its own separate qualifier which is way more suitable for Dai Hard. Psyche!
Never understood the rating on Dai Hard, it's the qualifier that makes it black!
I remember being distinctly worried at a race which included dai hard, having been put off previously by the qualifier. The stage started just after the gap, was a massive relief it bore no resemblance to the trail.
I used to ride BPW when working that way and had a few spare hours, I don't anymore as its just not viable to buy a ticket and do a few trails.
Interesting info on Dai Hard, i know the small creatures want to hit some blacks next time there in 2 weeks, so was wondering which we should tackle... Although i'm more worried about me than them !
Its still got some pretty hefty drops on it
Yeah just watched a couple of vids on it... i think i've got the drops, they don't look any bigger than locomotion drops.
Well, as per the OP’s original question, after today I’d say he was unlucky amd maybe they didn’t have enough buses on. We queued for the first bus in the morning, briefly. Then 4 buses arrived, and we were whisked up. Rest of the day, no queues. Also, the (free) bikewash - only one was working but the queue was short and there was nobody waiting til we’d nearly finished.
Absolutely brilliant day 😁
Still never seen that monster sized bus running – just seems to sit around looking impressive!
I was there Sunday and indeed it does run as we went on it, I was so excited it's the only photo I took!
The ride is a bit smoother but the clutch was on-off so still got knocked around a bit.
Managed 7 runs in the morning without too much trying - this after my daughter crashed 2nd run down ripping a new SRAM Eagle GX mech off, like they are easy to come by! I spent the rest of the morning shoving her into the qualifiers so she could get some momentum into the trails. Overall it was probably good for her riding as she couldn't ease off on features and drops for fear of loosing speed.
Once we waited 5 mins for a bus but usually they were there loading bikes. We thought our 6th uplift at 12:40 would be our last but the attendant suggested AC/DC into Rim Dinger would be possible, we did them and were on our next uplift at 13:10. The driver for this uplift was telling riders to hurry on at the bottom and off at top so he could be on his break at half one. I think he was mostly being jovial but it could be taken the wrong way and he did blast off back down the hill.
I was surprised to see some pay per lift ticket holders as I thought uplift was sold out - they were being made to wait if there was anything of a queue. My wife managed 4 runs on a pedal pass as she "didn't want to do too much" so only 5 on an uplift ticket would be disappointing - for that many I'd probably prefer a pedal pass, take my time and spend the savings on lunch.
@enigmas:
Anyhow I’m done with BPW – the price hikes are a complete joke and over the first lockdown they made a good mate redundant and then put his job up 3 months later with a significantly lower wage.
Would he have been a driver there? Heard they had let a few go and was shocked when I saw the advert for new ones and how little they were offering. 20hr contract and £8.93 IIRC.
Dai Hard- a gap jump
Been a while since I have been to now but I never jumped this as the roll in seemed too slow for me without some mad cranking, which to me is not how a jump after a roll in like at bow where it's uphill onto it so you can't get going before dropping in.
Still never seen that monster sized bus running
We went on it Weds, didn't see it Thursday.
I’ve ridden the gap jump qualifier for Dai Hard but I haven’t ridden the trail because I’m not comfortable with gaps.
We were there yesterday and it ran smoothly enough. Queues were a touch longer after dinner, no queue for our last run. Drivers all friendly.
Got a go in the big bus, which was cooler that the minibus's much to my suprise.
A great mix of ages and plenty of ladies too which is great to see.
I'm still not good enough to hit the landings on AC/DC and still phsyched out by steep and tall jumps. In fact I wish they would build a trail that feels like that section of Norkle that leads to the uplift from top to bottom 🙂
Merthyr rocks blue is not dissimilar to the blue leading to the buses.
A great mix of ages and plenty of ladies too which is great to see.
I noticed this in the week. On one bus ride it was a 50/50 split male/female. After that huge bizarre thread on here a little while ago, I thought it was quite telling. Plenty of young women getting into the sport.
Merthyr rocks blue is not dissimilar to the blue leading to the buses.
I'm sorry, whatnow?! Merthyr Rocks is just a short version of Rim Dinger (runs parallel to it). Love em both, personally, but I wouldn't say they are fast and flowy like Norkle.
I can’t remember the names of them but I can’t do at least two of the qualifiers on the red trails
Only been once and did see a bloke lift his bike past the qualifier...
Ive been a few times, and only ever seen the big bus running once and actually got on it. It feels smoother than the others but boy is it slow. However it is good for taking more people to the top in one go.
I've seen lots of people not bother with the qualifiers, think its bonneyville with the horrible drop off at the beginning which ive seen a fair few people carry their bike down and carry on riding, that drop has always put me off riding the trail.
I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to drop offs and jumps as i think about it all far too much and then it gets in my head, despite knowing i can ride them fine as i have done most of them previously.
think its bonneyville with the horrible drop off at the beginning which ive seen a fair few people carry their bike down
I don't think that drop's particularly hard, it's daunting, but lands pretty well (I only know this as I blithely went off it without really noticing how big it was) the thing I've never really got is that the trail after it has nothing like that feature. The opposite is true of Coal not Dole, entry has no qualifier, half way down there's a drop equal in size to the qualifier on Bonneville!
doomanic
Full MemberI’ve ridden the gap jump qualifier for Dai Hard but I haven’t ridden the trail because I’m not comfortable with gaps.
Admittedly some time since I've been, but the qualifier was the only gap on Dai Hard when i went. It was a really nice trail after that
The opposite is true of Coal not Dole, entry has no qualifier,
Coal not Dole has that slightly awkward double rock step qualifier?
Coal not Dole has that slightly awkward double rock step qualifier?
Yes, I look at it and think if I had any talent I’d gracefully clear the pair in one. But I have no talent so gracelessly clunk down one then the other
nickc Full Member
I don’t think that drop’s particularly hard, it’s daunting, but lands pretty well (I only know this as I blithely went off it without really noticing how big it was) the thing I’ve never really got is that the trail after it has nothing like that feature. The opposite is true of Coal not Dole, entry has no qualifier, half way down there’s a drop equal in size to the qualifier on Bonneville!
I agree. Bonneyville is one of my favourite bits of trail at BPW, I really like it. I am however awful at drops, so Bonneyville's qualifier infuriates me. I can cautiously roll it but the chances of me dropping it are pretty slim. It requires a fairly specific skill and it's not a skill required anywhere else on Bonneyville.
I'm fairly certain that this year's trip to BPW is the first time I've ever been able to do the qualifier drop for Vicious Valley, and again that's testing for a skill that's unnecessary on the trail itself.
Vicious Valley- woodwork step/drop, nothing else like it on the rest of the trail, puts people off (and that’s a big deal for this trail, since it’s the first tech red, basically the door to the reds and it’s shut for some people for no reason. ChrisL who posted here is your perfect example.
Escort- just a notch cut in a log step, easier than the rest of the trail, no qualifier effect, and gives no idea of the trail. Guarantee you that people have ridden the quali, thought it’ll all be fine, then come a cropper.
But to be fair - doesn't that lead into Surfin' Bird & BonneyVille that have slightly bigger features?
PrinceJohn Free Member
But to be fair – doesn’t that lead into Surfin’ Bird & BonneyVille that have slightly bigger features?
The only features on Vicious Valley and BonneyVille that require drop skills are their qualifiers. Surfin' Bird has anything that requires the level of drop skills required by the Vicious Valley qualifier either. For me at least the skills required by the Vicious Valley and Bonneyville qualifiers are orthogonal to the skills required for those trails.
But to be fair – doesn’t that lead into Surfin’ Bird & BonneyVille that have slightly bigger features?
No surfin bird has its own drop which is smaller than the bonneyville one.
Not done coal not dole so cant comment on that.
Completely agree about Escort, tiny little notch cut into a log that you can just ride over and then whoah where the hell did this come from.
The drop into viscous valley is ridiculous given the rest of the trail, i remember the first time i went it put me off riding it, in the gap before my next visit i went to see the jedi for a day of training, walked upto the viscous valley drop and remember saying to myself, thats tiny what was i scared about and went off it and popped off with no issues at all.
Hate the mind games that come with this sport.
in the gap before my next visit i went to see the jedi for a day of training, walked upto the viscous valley drop and remember saying to myself, thats tiny what was i scared about and went off it and popped off with no issues at all.
pretty sure it got reduced (or rather the trail below built up) at some point. You can just about very ungracefully roll it now.
Irrelevant if you ride it "correctly" as the landing was unchanged
I have been to BPW on a few occasions over the years and have always had a good trip. Even when I had to go to hospital with my son, or had to wait with a friend who had hurt themselves. Staff were very helpful. The balance between a big bike park and smaller, more family vibe venture is a difficult line to tread.
Interesting comments on the qualifiers, I thought it was just me! I do think the Locomotion first drop is way above my pay grade; but part of the fun is working up to these features and challenging yourself to get down stuff in one piece.
Locomotion first drop is way above my pay grade;
All the drops on the reds have this strange visual effect where they look like you are jumping into the void with about 6ft drop to flat, even when the actual step is about 6 inches.
pretty sure it got reduced (or rather the trail below built up) at some point. You can just about very ungracefully roll it now.
It hadnt changed between the two times i went, it was very much my own perception of what was big at the time.
My first time visiting bike park wales was my first time at any bike park i was very much a novice who had only ridden cross country trails local to me.
All the drops on the reds have this strange visual effect where they look like you are jumping into the void with about 6ft drop to flat, even when the actual step is about 6 inches.
I thought this was just me, i think its the angles they place the rocks in front of the drops, just enough of an angle on the lip to obscure your view of the trail ahead.
I saw someone attempt to roll it and they got it a bit wrong. They did get up and laugh about it but it just looked awkward, think they bottled it when they got close with too much momentum.
I thought this was just me, i think its the angles they place the rocks in front of the drops, just enough of an angle on the lip to obscure your view of the trail ahead.
Its definitely a thing. When you know the trail and you are happy to fly down it, its great. Going down it blind when you arent sure whats coming, its less fun having to stop, get out the trail, admonish yourself for stopping when you realise how tiny it is, check the trail is clear, push back up to get a decent run in, then repeat for every drop because what if they get progressively bigger?
Contrast to (the red at) antur stiniog, you can pretty much slow to a trackstand 3 yards before the drop, pick the exact pebble you want to land on, release the brakes and drop of it perfectly. Then add speed the following run.
Yep. Though arguably, it's better for a drop to look bigger than it is- probably prevents some accidents, and makes it feel more awesome.
If you want a real stinker, try the first drop on Bomper at BMCC- it's got a big change of horizon so you ride up, think right I got this, then suddenly as you approach the whole feel of the thing changes so as you approach it suddenly feels like it's doubled in size... It's another one that the actual drop is pretty small, especially if you do it slow and short but it's a great exercise in sightlines.
There's a ladder drop at tignes which was the biggest thing I'd ever done at the time, and it's the exact opposite- lovely run-up, totally flat woodwork, all the featureless landing area you could possibly want, no distractions, no horizon at all- it's a masterclass in making it easier. (unless you hate woodwork)
ayjaydoubleyou Free Member
All the drops on the reds have this strange visual effect where they look like you are jumping into the void with about 6ft drop to flat, even when the actual step is about 6 inches.
There's one on either Snakebite or Insufficient Funds that is an extreme example of this, as you approach you have absolutely no view of what's on the other side of the drop but when you get to it you discover it isn't actually a drop at all, just a slight lip with a log across it, and the trail rolls gently downwards on the other side of the log.
Northwind Full Member
There’s a ladder drop at tignes which was the biggest thing I’d ever done at the time, and it’s the exact opposite- lovely run-up, totally flat woodwork, all the featureless landing area you could possibly want, no distractions, no horizon at all- it’s a masterclass in making it easier. (unless you hate woodwork)
Captured for posterity:
The rider who tried the drop before him had more difficulty with it.
When you know the trail and you are happy to fly down it, its great. Going down it blind when you arent sure whats coming, its less fun having to stop, get out the trail, admonish yourself for stopping when you realise how tiny it is, check the trail is clear, push back up to get a decent run in, then repeat for every drop because what if they get progressively bigger?
I don't see it like that. There is no trail anywhere that I like riding more, than a trail I haven't ridden before.
However, I don't expect to be able to ride new trails I've not done before without perhaps stopping and looking at the more challenging bits. No shame in that. Just makes sense to do that. Once you've done it, you build up to hitting everything. That's the challenge and fun of it imho.
Do world cup downhillers just blast down a new track without looking at lines etc? Nah, they stop and learn the track so they can take the lines they can confidently do, then repeat until they're full whack.
The trouble with people having expectations in terms of grading means either they get hurt when something doesn't quite fit their idea of that grade and they've ridden into it without looking, or, trails get sanitized until they're lacking in any real technicality to take that out of the equation.
I don't know why anyone should have an issue with having a quick look at something they're about to ride off.
It's very difficult to standardize grading everywhere. I think you can only give a hint.
A lot of the blacks at BPW for example can have big gap jumps, or at least there is a point where you're too fast to roll but not committed enough to jump the slump, and the black at say Laggan doesn't have stuff like that. Instead it has extremely technical and committing roll-ins and drops etc.
At BPW I can ride all the blacks but jumping isn't my strong point so I end up not bothering. On the other hand, I absolutely love Laggan black and am always quite surprised that it actually exists as a public trail 😃
Trail gradings don't, and shouldn't tell you exactly what's coming. That would be horrible.
But yeah, hopefully bikeparks don't go the same way as retail parks. Homogenous and sanitized.
The trouble with people having expectations in terms of grading means either they get hurt when something doesn’t quite fit their idea of that grade
Hmm, me and my kid have only ever crashed and got hurt on blues. I wonder if the grading normally doesn't have a lot to do with crashes - complacency, tiredness, silly mistakes more common, I'd bet.
However, I don’t expect to be able to ride new trails I’ve not done before without perhaps stopping and looking at the more challenging bits. No shame in that. Just makes sense to do that. Once you’ve done it, you build up to hitting everything. That’s the challenge and fun of it imho.
That is kind of the difference between "trail" and "DH", and BPW kind of exists between the two. THere are so many trails there that I, and most of my friends) dont generally ride a trail more than twice in a day.
At a trail centre (or unoffical woodland singletrack) I'd expect to make a continuous run down a trail blind. Not a brilliant or clean or quick run, and there would certainly be room for improvement on a subsequent run.
On the other hand, somewhere like CwmDown, its only 1 track, I'd happily spend a day there improving each run, and that would include some stopping and inspecting. Similarly in Morzine I have spent an afernoon lapping the Pleney black run, each time round I would do (or do properly) one more feature. That was an excellent day.
Hmm, me and my kid have only ever crashed and got hurt on blues.
the blues if you are doing them sort of properly - going up round the berms etc - you'll be doing 20mph easily, on a surface as hard as concrete. thats quite a whack you'll take with even a mall mistake.
The idea of a sighting run or sessioning parts of the track is very much a DH thing and not expected at trail centres and IMO mostly not at bike parks.
I'm trying to think whether BPW has any features that are really out of place, I can't think of any off the top of my head. I find uncontrolled speed is more dangerous than anything else.
going up round the berms etc – you’ll be doing 20mph easily, on a surface as hard as concrete. thats quite a whack you’ll take with even a small mistake.
Exactly 🙂
dc1988
Free MemberThe idea of a sighting run or sessioning parts of the track is very much a DH thing and not expected at trail centres and IMO mostly not at bike parks.
With easier trails, sure but I don't think that holds at the harder end. For most people some stopping and looking will definitely be part of the day at Laggan black frinstance, and probably at Learnie. Sometimes refusals, sometimes "I am on a terrible line" but mostly pre-planned "this looks horrible, let's have a look". And lots of "I failed, let's try again"- see Kirroughtree.
I guess the other difference is "riding the trail" vs "riding the feature". Trail centres do tend to be a sum of their parts, something like glentress red or black you're not really supposed to be thinking OMG did you see that ONE MASSIVE FEATURE, it's supposed to be a big round experience and the trails are mostly designed to be ridden as a whole and with continuity. But not always. Laggan black's definitely a collection of features with some trails inbetween. Innerleithen's short black is like that too. That changes the effect of stopping, too- if it's a "ride the whole trail" sort of a deal then stopping can be pretty intrusive and break the flow but "ride the features" trails tend to have stopping and starting built into the design.
The idea of a sighting run or sessioning parts of the track is very much a DH thing and not expected at trail centres and IMO mostly not at bike parks.
In the UK, yes, but I've been to Whistler where there's plenty of standing on the trail and puzzling. Perhaps it's just how we ride?
