[Closed] Loan Bike Returned Damaged - Did It Need Saying Beforehand?

Suggest that you both go to a bike shop together, & ask them to fix it.
He pays.
That way you won't end up with an ally frame and downmarket components fitted.

Horrid situation,

I hope the chap has the good grace to sort this out. I really hope for your sake it doesn't get messy.

I'd have told his wife on the way out, to expect a letter from the small claims courts.

What? Why on earth would you threaten to get the small claims court involved at this stage? He may still be planning to pay in full.

Is it covered on your house insurance?

davidtaylforth - Member
I'd have told his wife on the way out, to expect a letter from the small claims courts.

That would not achieve anything . If he was going to be arsey he could just say that the bike was like that when he was given it and if he wasn't going to be arsey then you don't need the small claims court .

I work with 8 people. I know the phone number of two of them. I didn't think to ask. I don't ever phone them. I speak to them at work if I need to. I have learnt a few huge lessons in the past few days. I actually feel quite sick.

[i]If I'd borrowed the bike I would have already ordered the replacements before handing the bike back, I would then rebuild it for them even better than before to say sorry. [/i]

[i]Why on earth did you lend it to someone from work who you hardly know ? I don't get this at all.. [/i]

I missed the beginning, did he borrow it or did you lend it - ie did you offer or did he ask? Quite key this as if you offered then you'll need to take some responsibility for it, but if he asked you then 100% responsibility lies with him.

Three pages and only one reference to the condition of the rider? I really hope he's ok - do you know what caused the crash? Obviously that factors into things; was it a car; another rider; the fact he was riding a bike significantly above his skill level?

Personally I would expect someone to replace/repair to the same standard I would. That is if it's stopped working I replace it, but if it has just been scratched I don't. Probably wouldn't have lent out a shiny carbon thing where a scratch can equal terminal damage, probably wouldn't own a shiny carbon thing for the same reason.

Having read the thread it seems obvious that the rider is ok, however if I'm wrong then then I will indeed feel like an inconsiderate fool and readily eat my words.

As for the bike...

Sorry to hear the damage is possibly even worse than you feared. With bikes the damaged parts that can be unbolted and changed I don't feel so bad about damaging (when I damage them, mind) but a gouge out of the carbon frame, yeah,I do get it when you said you feel sick.

Don't take the comments to heart on here mate. I've been on various different forums since right back to '96 and believe me, STW is very tame compared to some I've been on! The saving grace of STW is the huge knowledge base on here and the massive percentage of posters are actually very helpful people.... they just tend to have a well honed sarcastic/ pedantic humour and way of posting on occasion. Just take it on the chin bud, don't worry about it.

Good luck with the bike mate, hopefully the guy will do the right thing and offer to pay any costs. As for the carbon, assuming it's "just" cosmetic damage I believe it is possible to have the carbon tidied up to a degree so it's not as noticeable. Never owned a carbon frame but hopefully I'm right?

Good luck bud and of course I do hope the rider is ok, returning to first bit of this post.

Its a bike not a work of art or an investment. Accidents happen so you should consider what parts you would replace if you had crashed it and what you would just shrug and put up with. He should pay to replace those parts and you should put the rest down to experience.

I work with [s]8[/s] 120 people. I know the phone number of [s]two[/s] six of them.

& none of them would get even a ride on any of my bikes.
However, my riding pal borrowed my HT last week for a family member from Oz to use, I said 'don't bother cleaning it, It's minging anyway'. It came back immaculate.
That's how it should be in reality.

Give the guy a break.... The OP still hasn't spoken to him. Somebody insightful previously posted this:

It doesn't sound like you/we have any idea how this guy is going to handle this....... as long as he hands it back with a "I'm really sorry - tell me how much the bill is going to be" I don't see a problem.

If he doesn't, then it's a simple "oh dear that seems to have broken - I'll let you know how much a new one is" should let the guy know what your expectation is.

OP did it fall off a bike rack?

Quick ways to discern this - i.e he doesnt look injured when you see him.

From your descfiption that sounds like its slid for more than a few metres.

This thread now needs pictures. If the seat stay really is "gouged" rather than scratched then things are going to get a whole lot messier (unless your workmate actually turns out to be a decent guy and offers to pay for everything without prompting).

Pictures definitely needed now!

What is needed now is for the whole thing to be dropped until the OP tells us what the borrower has offered.

This may well be covered by one or other's home contents insurance, no? (Accidental damage in the case of the lender's, third party liability in the case of the borrower's.)

Give the guy a break.... The OP still hasn't spoken to him.

Dunno, if I'd trashed someone's bike I'd be keen to get in touch and let them know that I'd be sorting it out. I certainly wouldn't be out and leave my other half to do the dirty work when they came to pick it up. Doesn't exactly shout "I'm keen to make amends", does it?

[i]Dunno, if I'd trashed someone's bike I'd be keen to get in touch and let them know that I'd be sorting it out. I certainly wouldn't be out and leave my other half to do the dirty work when they came to pick it up. Doesn't exactly shout "I'm keen to make amends", does it? [/i]

this, really, I'd have fixed the bike before returning it, not scarpered.

So am I right in thinking that you've spoken to the people his with about your bike but not spoken to him as you don't have his number? Why not just ask one of the people you did have a number for to pass the phone over so you could have a chat?

I'm sure it will all turn out fine, the borrower would have to be a bit of a dick not to cover any damages imo.

When you speak to him remain calm and don't go in all angry, do a quick tot up of the parts that need replacing and let him know, if anything over estimate so that it'll look better when you get the true price. Price up a replacement frame and let him know that as well independent of the other costs. Might be best to list the pieces on an email with a link to crc or wiggle to prove the cost. Good luck.

Feel really bad for OP. In a similar position I would at least fess up to the person I borrowed and offer to make good on the damage.

"Told you so" comments don't really help you, but I'd definitely ask the person you lent it to if they will cover the damage. You don't ask, you don't get.

Seeing as you've told his partner you're not satisfied with what's happened you should bite the bullet and ask. However, the reluctance to give you their phone number, and absence when you were taking possession sounds like they're chancing their arm on you not asking.

Focus on what you need to do. Get receipts for the bike and quotes for what you're willing to accept in place. Show this to him and ask him to do the right thing. You can consider alternatives after that.

Chin up though mate, at least you know this person's character now. Hope it all comes through for you and they do the right thing. Absolutely disgusted by this behaviour.

I'd have left the bike there and suggested the borrower get in touch to discuss how to resolve. Not that I'd lend a bike out anyway unless it was to a cyclist mate who I trust.

Obviously he has to replace but does he have any legal obligation to?

Is there only me feeling a little less sorry for the OP due to his asking for peoples opinion, then getting quite aggressive when they don't tally with his? I think I'd not ask to borrow the bike in the first place if I suspected I may have to deal with this attitude.

Not that I'd return it broken, bender pays obviously.

Maybe, just maybe, he may think his working relationship is worth something and do the right thing, I know if I have to work with someone for the foreseeable future I would do my utmost not to cause ill-feeling, it will come back and bite you in the end.
If he refuses to do anything, I would cause him untold grief in the future, and sabotage everything he is involved in.
As I say maybe he should reflect on this?

In answer to the OP, considering you didn't really know the guy, then I think it was up to you to make it clear what your expectation were, what the value of the bike was and how much you cared about it. On this info. he might have said "in that case, thanks but no thanks".
As others have said, the vast majority of people will see a bicycle as nothing more than a simple bit of metal and wheels. Something they stuck in the garage and rode occasionally as a kid and of little worth or sentiment and probably would baulk at the suggestion that anyone would spend £400 or more on one and/or get all precious over them.
Considering the guy hasn't attempted to speak to you (if he really gave a toss he would have made contact, been there when you collected and/or given instructions to his wife) then my gut feeling is he's just ignorant of the value and/or that someone could get so precious over something he sees as just not that important or valuable, ie something that he might see as just a kids toy and something that people in poor countries use. or maybe he is just an arsehole.
It'll be interesting to hear what his reaction is, hopefully he'll do the right thing..

Is there only me feeling a little less sorry for the OP due to his asking for peoples opinion, then getting quite aggressive when they don't tally with his?

Leave him alone, he's just lost a bike!

[quote=B.A.Nana ]Considering the guy hasn't attempted to speak to you (if he really gave a toss he would have made contact, been there when you collected and/or given instructions to his wife) then my gut feeling is he's just ignorant of the value and/or that someone could get so precious over something he sees as just not that important or valuable, ie something that he might see as just a kids toy and something that people in poor countries use.

My feeling from him being out at collection time and wife being reluctant to give the number is that he knows full well and is trying to avoid responsibility. Bets on him calling in sick today?

[quote=tthew ]Is there only me feeling a little less sorry for the OP due to his asking for peoples opinion, then getting quite aggressive when they don't tally with his?

Probably not just you, but not everybody agrees with you either.

My feeling from him being out at collection time and wife being reluctant to give the number is that he knows full well and is trying to avoid responsibility. Bets on him calling in sick today?

has it been confirmed if the perpetrator is the Op's boss or not?
Come on Op update please, pitch forks are ready.

Has anyone got a pitch fork I can borrow?

[img] [/img]

@joshvegas
You can have mine, but you have to return it in the condition I lent it to you in.

Has anyone got a pitch fork I can borrow?

I won't need it until we see pictures

I've got biscuits in case anyone's running low.

Malted milk or fruit shortcake.

I'm going to guess that there is a slight toe overlap on the bike?

Non cyclist took the bike up his road and attempted a sharp turn at the end and resulted in an OTB.

sounds like somebody's slats need a hoofin'

I get my [s]car[/s] bike back any differently than when I gave it, Monster Joe's gonna be disposing of two bodies

[img] [/img]

Skipping over all the comments and replying to the OP...

Yes, within reason I'd expect him to give you some recompense. If things are just scraped without damaging them it does make it more tricky - I wouldn't expect someone that just scraped a rear mech to get me a new one, a nice bit of carbon frame I might be a bit more worried about, and bar tape for sure I'd want changing.

But I would point out the "break it you bought it" rule prior to loan in any case, and avoid having this discussion after.

All you folks saying "a lot of people don't realise bikes are expensive": so what? Can someone give a guide as to the price ranges where the principle of giving something back in the condition in which you received it no longer applies, and explain why?

I don't even begin to understand the reasoning behind handing something back knackered being considered acceptable on the basis that it's assumed to be cheap. If I borrowed someone's Apollo and knackered it, I'd at the very least go out of my way to have a frank and apologetic conversation with the owner as soon as possible to see what they actually wanted fixing.

But if a non cyclist was asked to replace a hundred quid BSO they may not be so reluctant. Methinks that is what people are trying to point out. In the same way that I cannot comprehend why anyone would spend more than a tenner on a phone, many people will just not "get" the idea of a 4 figure price for a bike. Yes the idea of replacing what you broke is the same but when faced with big sums of money some peoples attitudes change.
Lets all wait and see shall we?

tthew » Is there only me feeling a little less sorry for the OP due to his asking for peoples opinion, then getting quite aggressive when they don't tally with his?

Probably not just you, but not everybody agrees with you either.

See how easy that was OP?

Come on OP, you must have had the conversation now - lets hear the juicy details.

This thread is almost as good as the (removed) thread about being blackmailed for indecent webcam exposure!

FWIW, you have my sympathies. I think replacement of damaged parts is the minimum (probably a few beers for the hassle too) and it's one of the reasons I am reluctant to borrow things I know I can't easily replace.

mildly related, but I remember a chap in our old club who lent his bike to a friend, said friend was one of the nice ones and genuinely trying to be thoughtful and appreciative decided to clean the bike before returning it, with the industrial strength power washer at his work, and subsequently pretty much purged every moving part of any grease/lubrication, but not being totally unaware, decided to lubricate it with GT85...including the disc brakes 🙁

That resulted in a slightly awkward exchange where the guy proudly handed back the shiny clean bike with a big smile and was a bit taken aback when the owner pulled a funny face after giving it the once over to find the brakes howling like a banshee and most of the moving parts feeling rougher than a badgers arse, and then having to explain about now needing new brake pads and having to strip and lube the hubs, headset, BB, pivot bearings and possibly fork lowers service too.

All the more reason to have a chat about expectation before you loan, as even the nice ones can inadvertently do harm.

Hope you get it sorted OP, not a nice situation to be in.

[quote=tthew ]Yep. That's fine by me. As is the way of the world.
See how easy that was OP?

I feel insulted at being used as an example of good forum etiquette 😳

In the same way that I cannot comprehend why anyone would spend more than a tenner on a phone, many people will just not "get" the idea of a 4 figure price for a bike.

Possibly, but then I'm guessing that if I lend you my phone it'd be reasonably evident that it's a £10 phone, and if the OP lends someone a lightweight carbon fibre bike it'd probably be reasonably evident that it's not a £150 Asda special.

But as I say, either way, (and yes, as you rightly say, the "let's wait and see" caveat applies, but I'm taking issue with some people's arguments rather than the OP's specific situation) if, say, you smashed the screen of my phone I'm guessing you wouldn't just leave it to your wife to hand it back to me on the basis that all phones must cost a tenner and therefore I must be perfectly happy with a smashed one. I mean, at the very least, surely anyone who was astronomically ignorant but still had some moral integrity would hand it back with a tenner and a note saying "sorry I wrecked your phone, here, buy yourself a new one"?