If money was is in more plentiful supply and I wanted an ebike it's definitely what I'd be buying. It just makes so much sense in a form follows function meets engineering meets it's a bike first and foremost kind of way.
Not that it should matter....but if it did.... beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that but I rather like it. Probably because it mostly looks like a nice looking bike with a battery strapped to it.
In some ways it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's going to appeal to a particular sort of buyer, someone who appreciates the ethos behind it and has the funds to afford it, I definitely agree about the external battery, I'm still riding a 2018 Vitus Esommet and carry a spare battery on big rides.
Very nice review.
I think there was a time where people wanted to 'hide the battery' on the bike so it didn't look so obvious that you were cheating but everyone is cheating now so you might as well show it for all of the benefits that brings.
Interesting notes about the downtube affecting the feel of a bike, I really noticed this moving to my electric gravel bike.
I have to admit that when I eventually get round to having to replace my Turner, I suspect I will be buying a Cotic. I'm sure that I'll figure out a way of making an adaptor to fit a front mech and I will be as happy as Larry. The full suspension Cotic frames just look right to me. I'm sure I'll get decision anxiety over which frame colour to go for though. Ha. Ha.
Cheers
Sanny
If I were interested in buying an eBike then if be all over this. I wonder if the "acoustic" Cotics will move over to this geometry and style of linkage?
Christ how much did they have to pay you to come up with that headline?
It might well be the best riding bike since sliced bread (I doubt it)
But that looks like a cheap bike, and ugly + although I like the Shimano motor it’s way out of its depth compared to modern stuff
If I were interested in buying an eBike then if be all over this. I wonder if the "acoustic" Cotics will move over to this geometry and style of linkage?
I'd be all over the next gen RocketMAX if it has the same layout. Better dropper insertion and bottle location is a massive win.
Nope, it's still an ugly brute. I'm sure it would look better with a different style of battery cover, maybe longer and thinner?
If you don't like the look or the price Ben has given similarly gushing reviews of the Orbea Wild, the Merida SL thing and I think the Deviate Kurgen this year.
Only Cotic is a certified STW favourite brand.
If you don't like the look or the price Ben has given similarly gushing reviews of the Orbea Wild, the Merida SL thing and I think the Deviate Kurgen this year.
Only Cotic is a certified STW favourite brand.
I've been eying up one of those Orbea wilds, quick google though tends to lend it's self to terrible frame bearings, dodgy quality control and frame failures, with 90 day turnarounds for warranty claims.
As a result I've been eying up a Levo 4 and Trek Rail instead, always know what you're getting with those two brands
Shame about the Orbea but not that surprising.
If I was spending mega money on an e-bike I'd get the Nicolai with the Pinion MGU.
I have skinny tubed bikes and I have chunky ebikes.
This is definitely not one for me but fair play @Cy for sticking to your ethos and producing what you wanted to do rather than conforming. And it definitely appeals to a certain portion of the market. I hope it works for you
I mean each to their own but it does look like it would be fitting to come delivered with an uber eats delivery bag
Names checks out.
Its looks industrious to me, and not really any different to a good looking full suspension with a water bottle in the cage.
If I have the money if/when I decide I want an eeb, I would.
The Cotic Rocket looks like nothing else. And it outperforms every other eeb out there.
I'm going to ignore the obvious clickbait title, and gloss over the looks, the outdated Shimano drivetrain etc. to start with as bikes are usually more (or sometimes less) than the sum of their parts...
But, what I would like to know @Ben_Haworth is just how many other new eBikes you've ridden in 2025 to make this statement, and what they were... Have you ridden any of the latest offerings with the Avinox M1 motor (so Unno, Forbidden, Velduro etc), any of the most recent Bosch Gen5 CX offerings (Mondraker Crafty, updated Orbea Wild, Cube One77, Yeti LTe, Santa Cruz Vala, Transition Regulator, Whyte Kado etc.) or even any of the latest bikes featuring the Pinion E1.12 MGU (such as Nicolai S16, Moustache Clutch, Haibike Allmtn CF Trn/IQ), or even the latest Gen4 Specialized Levo...? Could you please present us with some metrics as to how you have come to this conclusion?
I've been a big fan of Cotic's over the years, have owned and enjoyed a few of them, and looking at the geometry (it's almost identical to my Mondraker Crafty which rides incredibly, half a degree off in the seat angle aside) it should handle well... And 21.5kg for a full fat eBike is commendable, even if the battery relies on you carrying a spare in a backpack (thus negating any weight savings) to keep up with your mates range wise...
But this is 2025 (almost 2026), not 2017 as someone else has already pointed out... The Merida e160 900e was top of the pile back then, but a lot has happened in 8yrs in terms of both integration and electronics (forgetting the form for a moment), and I just can't see how your claims stack up... It just smacks of lazy journalism to be honest!
So, by exactly what metric is it the "Best eMTB of the year"...? The only area that I can see the Cotic would have a significant advantage would be in frame compliance, if indeed on a full suspension Enduro bike, this is still a primary consideration (which is a highly subjective argument at best).
Ridden in isolation I'm sure the Cotic would impress. But once you've ridden any current motor system and compared to the 5yr old Shimano EP8 setup, and found that you can have identical geometry in a bike where the motor and battery are properly integrated and capable of delivering both higher performance/refinement and longer range... You've got to be in the die hard "steel is real" camp to consider something that looks like it has been built in a shed purely to house the running gear off an 8yr old Merida that sadly snapped out of warranty, when there are so, so many great alternatives out there at arguably much more competitive prices!
Aside from all that... It looks dangerously like there's no room for a piggyback shock on the bike, which given its nature, is a massive oversight I would argue!
I know it was pointed out ad infinitum that those of us investing in Singletrack should only invest what we are prepared to lose and that we should not expect a return on investment... As someone who's bought the magazine on and off since its inception and been a forum member for 23yrs now (I had to look that up, and surprised myself actually!), and even been a contributor myself, I've come to expect just a smidgeon more objectivity and qualification of such elevated claims! I don't expect a return on my (admittedly small) investment, but I do feel I have a right to ask for better quality journalism this quite frankly!
Well that turned around, last I looked all comments were positive, I was beginning to wonder if I'd missed something.Quite a few posts since that think the same as I do .
That's a wedge if cash for a bike that looks like that .
Great stuff. Ride quality over looks every time - but it's easy for me to say that I think e-bikes are generally ugly (the bloat and bulk, mainly). The Cotic looks like a sorted MTB with a battery and motor added, which is what it is, and that's fine.The best bit about it? Cotic staying on a track, being true to what they prioritise.
The Qs about a Shimano system seem fair (and visually the battery case shape doesn't help) but the frame format they've chosen gets applause from here.
But, what I would like to know Ben_Haworth is just how many other new eBikes you've ridden in 2025 to make this statement, and what they were... Have you ridden any of the latest offerings with the Avinox M1 motor (so Unno, Forbidden, Velduro etc), any of the most recent Bosch Gen5 CX offerings (Mondraker Crafty, updated Orbea Wild, Cube One77, Yeti LTe, Santa Cruz Vala, Transition Regulator, Whyte Kado etc.) or even any of the latest bikes featuring the Pinion E1.12 MGU (such as Nicolai S16, Moustache Clutch, Haibike Allmtn CF Trn/IQ), or even the latest Gen4 Specialized Levo...? Could you please present us with some metrics as to how you have come to this conclusion?
I haven't read the review yet but I'll take a guess that the ride quality that gets the bike the win is nothing to do with the motor and everything to do with the frame design that isn't trying to hide a large battery inside a tube. We know tube stiffness is the cube of diameter and overly stiff bikes ride like crap - so I guess Cotic prioritised what their frame does, not what the motor does.
In a market where people buy e-bikes for the motor brand, a bike company flipping that to make it about the ride feel is a major step-change and should be recognised. It's a big, bold move. Maybe using a Shimano motor makes that a bolder move but 'principles first' is what I think is such a big deal here.
The best bits of an MTB ride are not when you're pedalling much, not when the motor is engaged, after all.
Speaking as someone who's had a couple of cotics and is a fan of the brand, I was pretty shocked at how bad it looked when it first came out, but I think I've gotten use to the looks a bit as it doesn't seem quite so bad now. But, if I had £9k to drop on an ebike it's definitely not going to be one that has an EP8 motor with a 500wh battery. It almost feels like the bike came out a bit too early and maybe if it had come out late this year with an Avinox motor we'd be less focussed on the looks.
The best bits of an MTB ride are not when you're pedalling much, not when the motor is engaged, after all.
Exactly why I’ve bought bikes without motors/batteries the last few times. Weirdly the battery is much less noticeable IRL and, subject to Athertons next release, this is top of my e-bike list.
I wasn't really a fan of how it looked when I first saw it, but I've changed my mind on that a bit now. It looks no worse than a normal bike with bottles and tool wraps etc strapped to it, and that's before we get on to those hideous bikepacking style frame bags. And there are so many ugly ebikes that I don't think this is even in the top 10. I also like the reasoning behind the external battery and it all makes sense to me. Most ebikes seem disposable to me, whilst this seems built to last. If I had anywhere near the cash to burn on an ebike it'd definitely be in my shortlist.
That said I think it'd probably be hard to pick this over an Amflow which does actually look like a normal bike and has what seems to be the best motor in the game, whilst not being obscenely heavy.
I suspect motor choice was more limited back when the design was being committed to. Plus which suppliers will offer motors in small enough quantities for a small brand like Cotic? I suspect many have minimum order volumes that are just too high or financially too committing for a small company.
Being a regular subscriber it does seem that testing bikes is not what the magazine is about anymore. Very few actual bike reviews, a few copy and paste marketing blurbs on the homepage, but not what the magazine used to be. Is that a choice for the magazine editor or because brands are less willing to lend them bikes and would rather give them to YouTubers.
Saw one of these at Peatys last year. Was actually nice looking in the flesh, but personally I'm not in the market for an EEB and I can't justify the price of a Cotic, but completely understand that doesn't mean they're bad value for money.
I do wonder if the rest of their "acoustic" FS bikes will take the suspension design from their e-bike as to me it looks neater.
Fair play to a small company trying something different.
That said I think it'd probably be hard to pick this over an Amflow which does actually look like a normal bike and has what seems to be the best motor in the game, whilst not being obscenely heavy.
Plenty of reports that it’s pretty bang average at being a bike though, if that means anything to you.
Are people buying a mountain bike with a motor attached or a motor with a mountain bike attached. Surely geometry and ride quality is paramount and the motor is a bonus to get you to the top faster for the real fun(going down)
Lots of e-bike riders are people who have never been mountain bikers so yes they do speak in watts and torques and everything else is way down the list. I know loads of people who are lifelong Motocross and Enduro riders who have bought e-bikes so they can go exploring without getting in trouble.
I'm a bike nerd so I bought the weakest e-bike you can get but it rides like a dream. It's within a few millimetres of my Edit MX with exactly the same suspension so it's like having a motorised version of that bike.
I can see why it would outclass other e-bikes ride feel from the skinny steel tube standpoint.
It’s good to see a review focus on the bike/ride rather than a spec sheet pissing contest.
Would love to see this concept as a TQ light motor ebike - that actually could be ridden with no battery for uplift days etc. or a second backpack swappable battery for longer days.
Plenty of reports that it’s pretty bang average at being a bike though, if that means anything to you.
Yeah, that's why I would certainly want to test ride the Cotic, from what I've seen about it people say it rides like a normal bike with assistance. I've never actually ridden an ebike (kinda scared it would ruin normal bikes for me!) but the idea of having a big heavy and dead feeling bike on the descents just to save some time and effort on the climbs doesn't really appeal.
Plenty of reports that it’s pretty bang average at being a bike though, if that means anything to you.
I've never actually ridden an ebike (kinda scared it would ruin normal bikes for me!) but the idea of having a big heavy and dead feeling bike on the descents just to save some time and effort on the climbs doesn't really appeal.
I thought the same. Then I hired a Santa Cruz Vala for a day at the Golfie and on the descents there I couldn't tell I was on a bike far, far heavier than what I normally ride. Plus you could sail up to the top with pretty much zero effort v a normal bike and in the end did a hell of a lot more riding than I'd normally do in a day up there. Would I want one as my only bike? No. Will I get one for the winch & plummet type stuff I enjoy and do probably more than anything else? Maybe. I can see the benefits at somewhere with a fairly big elevation like the Tweed Valley but my local riding is far flatter with even the biggest climbs being no more than 10 minutes or so. Will probably take the risk with something used rather than spunk £5k+ on something I may rarely use.
'I do wonder if the rest of their "acoustic" FS bikes will take the suspension design from their e-bike as to me it looks neater.'
According to the review it's the best handling bike ever , eeb or otherwise. So I'd expect cotic to take this geometry , and add some dead weight to the down tube.
The looks have grown on me tbh, though its a moot point as A: I'm don't want an ebike and B: The cost (though that applies to most eebs imo)
Plenty of reports that it’s pretty bang average at being a bike though, if that means anything to you.
from what I've seen about it people say it rides like a normal bike with assistance.
Problem is, plenty of others do but they seem to be going out of fashion and getting phased out as full fat bikes get lighter. The vast majority of the heavily discounted E-Bikes have smaller batteries and motors from what I saw when looking.
Well, that’s the advantage of the external battery here… fit a smaller battery if you want… or bigger… on the same bike. The Shimano motor is well suited to having those options as well, can be very efficient when using a small battery, but plenty of usable torque if you’re going to treat it as a “full fat” ebike.
Great stuff. Ride quality over looks every time - but it's easy for me to say that I think e-bikes are generally ugly (the bloat and bulk, mainly).
I'd generally agree... But why compromise when arguably you can have both? So many eBikes now (ok, not anything with an 800Wh Bosch battery inside the down tube I'll grant you) are way more lithe than those of only a few years ago. In fact, if you look at something like the Unno Mith, or arguably even my Canyon Neuron OnFly, the average person would be hard pressed to tell they were eBikes at all from more than a couple of metres away, such has the packaging improved on eBikes in general over the last few years...
The Cotic looks like a sorted MTB with a battery and motor added, which is what it is, and that's fine.
It is fine... But it's what the best eMTB manufacturers were doing 8yrs ago already... Things have moved on...
The best bit about it? Cotic staying on a track, being true to what they prioritise.
Which is absolutely commendable, and will win them plaudits from their die hard fans... Still doesn't mean it's objectively better than a wealth of other new eMTB's on the market though does it!
We know tube stiffness is the cube of diameter and overly stiff bikes ride like crap
All other things being equal (but they very, rarely are, Cannondale didn't leave the wall thickness the same when they started creating massively oversized tubes now did they!), then yes the tube stiffness goes up as a cube of the diameter. But we're not comparing apples with apples here are we... How many other steel eBikes on the market? How many other eBikes still operating with an external battery on the market? My Mondraker Crafty has one of the bulkier downtubes of the current eBike crop for sure, being that it's designed to house an 800Wh Bosch battery (which is shorter and more squat than the 750Wh it replaces)... It's a carbon frame that has obviously been optimised to give the characteristics required of a 160mm travel, 25kg "Enduro" eBike... I certainly don't find it too stiff. In fact, in Brian Cahal's review of it
they talk about it being the "Baby Bear's Porridge" (just right) compared to some of the other bikes on test that are stiffer, or flexier by comparison... So it absolutely doesn't mean that the right level of compliance can't be built into a modern oversized, carbon bike frame design if required... That said, I was arguing that 35/36mm stanchion single crown forks weren't stiff enough at 160+mm of travel anyway, and was grateful that the big boys moved to 38mm and a substantial improvement in stiffness ensued (dual crowns would be ace, but obviously, very heavy)... There are a few riders out there bemoaning the weight of modern long travel bikes, but at 95kg myself suited and booted and not one of the smoothest riders, I'm more concerned about not breaking it than ride compliance.
These aren't road bikes of decades past on 23mm tyres, or skinny tubed XC bikes with little or no suspension... For the type of riding that the "Enduro" category describes, motorised or not, these bikes need a strong (stiff!) platform to hang their 160mm or so of suspension from at both ends, 2.4"+ tyres etc... It's not really the frames job to be compliant, when you have that much suspension and tyre there. OK, that's an oversimplification because too stiff can still be horrible to ride even then, but it's why I'd argue keeping away from carbon rims is more important as a rule, allowing a degree of compliance from the wheels without sacrificing strength. Certainly there's a LOT more compliance to come from a 2.5" tyre, a 29er rim, and 160mm of suspension all working together, than there is the difference between an oversized carbon frame built to house a big battery and a 34.9/38.1mm tubed 853 steel frame.
I'm a fan of steel bikes in general by the way... The smaller the tyres, the bigger the frame material makes a difference to the ride quality... In fact, 3 of my last 4 road bikes have been made from steel, and the current one (Condor Super Acciaio) is probably the perfect happy medium between the Ritchey Road Logic (which was lovely, if a little flexy with its skinny tubes and 1 1/8th steerer) and the Genesis (a former employer @jameso ?) Volare 853 which preceded it (which with oversized 853 round tubes, was one of the stiffest steel frames out there)... The Condor has a similarly strong tubeset as 853 (Columbus Spirit HSS), but there is a lot more shaping going on to provide stiffness where it's required and remove it where it is not, and I feel it's a perfect happy medium for my tastes... On 28mm tyres... With no suspension... Riding on tarmac...
I had a Starling Murmur briefly, a year or so after they were launched... I just didn't get it. It flexed way more than I was happy with for a bike of that type, and didn't instil confidence. I know some people like this sensation (Nico Vouilloz famously used to get his mechanics to reduce the spoke tensions in his rear wheels to provide an extra degree of compliance), and maybe later bikes are stiffer than the early one I had, but it used to buzz the tyres on the stays whilst cornering and I could feel the vagueness from the front end compared to the carbon bike it replaced, and I wasn't a fan of how it rode... Loved how it looked, but it was very much a "form over function" bike in my view.
so I guess Cotic prioritised what their frame does, not what the motor does.
Again... Commendable as far as their loyal customers are concerned... But this approach has a very limited appeal for the wider market, even amongst those of us who are still far more concerned with how a bike rides than the horsepower pissing wars that have dominated the eBike market again lately! And that is, once again, assuming that everyone wants a flexier steel bike for said application... Which many of us simply won't!
In a market where people buy e-bikes for the motor brand, a bike company flipping that to make it about the ride feel is a major step-change and should be recognised. It's a big, bold move. Maybe using a Shimano motor makes that a bolder move but 'principles first' is what I think is such a big deal here.
In principle, I don't disagree. But it does depend on what you want your eBike for... If the person buying an eBike is already a diehard Cotic fan, and just wants an eBike to add more elevation to their rides (so probably isn't bothered by the latest and greatest motor system, only that it has one at all), then they will love it... The appeal with this bike lies ONLY for the diehard Cotic fan who hasn't owned or ridden an eBike before IMO... Because for anyone who isn't a diehard fan, or has owned or ridden eBikes before, there is a wealth of other great eBikes out there, many of which are also prioritising the ride feel over and above the motor performance... And this is my point...
Arguably Cy has done exactly the right thing... He's recognised his market for what it is... If he tried to make a more mainstream eBike it would dilute his personal touch on it. Creating the bike he has, has meant he'll probably sell a useful number to diehard Cotic fans who "get" what he's doing with it...
But it still doesn't mean, in any way shape or form, that it's objectively "better" than a great many other eMTB's that have come to market in 2025...
The best bits of an MTB ride are not when you're pedalling much, not when the motor is engaged, after all.
For sure... Most of the established brands do this very well now anyway, and some exceptionally well... Gone are the days when an eMTB was defined by a BB height that needed a step ladder to mount it, along with a crazily short and steep front end that they mostly exhibited when compared to their unpowered Enduro counterparts when the market was in its infancy... Were we judging a bike purely on its descending prowess, then arguably the presence of a motor at all does nothing (in fact, it probably takes a little away) for the performance of the bike... eBikes have a motor, and a battery, and whether the performance of that system only makes up for 10% of the score, or 90% of it, or anywhere inbetween... There are plenty of "discerning riders" bikes on the market now, they mostly just happen to have more up to date/in vogue motor systems fitted too... When all other things are level, the performance of the motor/battery system can make the difference.
As, subjectively, will the looks...
If you don't like the look or the price Ben has given similarly gushing reviews of the Orbea Wild, the Merida SL thing and I think the Deviate Kurgen this year.
Only Cotic is a certified STW favourite brand.
I've been eying up one of those Orbea wilds, quick google though tends to lend it's self to terrible frame bearings, dodgy quality control and frame failures, with 90 day turnarounds for warranty claims.
As a result I've been eying up a Levo 4 and Trek Rail instead, always know what you're getting with those two brands
the bearing life on my old occam were excellent, once in four years and they weren’t even that bad
the average person would be hard pressed to tell they were eBikes at all from more than a couple of metres away, such has the packaging improved on eBikes
Hmmm. Assuming there was a rider on it, you'd be able to tell 😉
the bearing life on my old occam were excellent, once in four years and they weren’t even that bad
For the sake of balance I'll say that the bearings and pivots in my occams were utterly shit. The bike was brilliant to ride and carry in almost every way but the bloody racket and the stripped main bearing threads were a bit of a downer.
I dropped the hammer and bought a Moterra SL last summer, great bike………BUT, I’ve spent a small fortune getting the spec to where I wanted it. Fair enough (gulp!), but no range extender. I even emailed Cannondale and got a definite No as an answer, now or ever. Which I’m a bit peeved about seeing as big all mountain days I’m a fan of. So as a frame only option, and one that’s been touted by journos as having something special about it. I would have seriously considered this as a frame only. Looks? Couldn’t give a monkey’s over that nonsense. Proofs in the pudding.
I actually like the concept, but having been an early shimano motor adopter I won’t be going there again and also I’m slightly confused by what looks like an attempt to make a less integrated/more user maintainable bike (*imho a very good thing) with what seems to be the least well supported and maintainable engine, also 21.7 might be lightish for full fat it’s not as light as I want. (After an exe I’ve gone cube sl, Bosch sx, 16.2alledged kg)
But it still doesn't mean, in any way shape or form, that it's objectively "better" than a great many other eMTB's that have come to market in 2025...
It's a valid point on the objective stuff of e-MTB spec, but we don't buy bikes for objective reasons and bikes don't stand out for only those reasons.
I was making 2 points really. One is Cotic are smart in appealing to a small number of riders wanting something different, rather than fighting in the scrum of all the big brands doing e-MTB. Red/blue ocean stuff.
Second is how reviews are often personal and subjective and the thinking behind that is what can make it more interesting to read than a lab report. It's not about data or tech newness here, it's about a bike that by all accounts rides great (#1 priority) and is a standout product in the market for various reasons that make it interesting, inspiring even. I could go into a rant about the state of the industry and how hard it is for smaller brands right now but I won't. I'll just say this bike makes me smile and I want to see it selling in sufficient numbers for Cotic carve to out a niche that is (imho and my perception) 2 fingers at the large chunk of the industry that is blindly marching toward a cliff edge.
These aren't road bikes of decades past on 23mm tyres, or skinny tubed XC bikes with little or no suspension...
Not as mainstream bikes from big brands, no. They still have a following though, people who are more fans of those bikes than most new bikes. Small brands who create those loyal fan clubs rather than follow the mainstream tend to do OK.
the Genesis (a former employer @jameso ?) Volare 853 which preceded it (which with oversized 853 round tubes, was one of the stiffest steel frames out there)...
FWIW The 'steel for race bikes?' Q was a discussion with Reynolds when we made some early 953 frames but I didn't stay long enough to be part of the team and steel or carbon race bikes era.
"is a standout product in the market for various reasons that make it interesting, inspiring even."
Really, in what way? From the outside it looks like a bike that the company needed to make but had to compromise to keep on brand. I don't think they made it look like a Sports Direct bike because they wanted to?
The (openly shared) prototype was an aluminium front triangle with an internal battery. I trust Cy enough (currently on my third Cotic) to think that the shift to what the Rocket has become was about more than branding...
The looks have become less jarring to me (I really didn't like it at first, but maybe - I'm a photography teacher - they've just got better at photographing it?) and when I finally need an ebike the Rocket will be on my list if I have the cash.
I'd be interested to know if the battery case was custom to cotic or, by dint of production volumes, it had to be picked out of a catalogue. Assuming it's injection moulded the tooling for a bespoke case would have been unrealistic surely for the number of units they could expect to shift.
Someone above mentioned a longer slimmer battery might have been easier on the eye. I think I probably agree. With the advancements in 3D printing for production quality polymer components in short production runs, I might have been tempted to go that route. A load more faff I'd imagine.
I've had 2 cotics and still enjoy riding my gen 2 flare max but I'm not sure about the ebike . I haven't ridden many ebikes and I'm pretty sure my next bike will be a normal pedal bike but I am curious . I'm stuck between thinking I'd want something with a TQ style motor for that more normal feel with just a bit of help when I'm not feeling strong or getting something with an Avinox because If you're going to go electric you might as well go all in . If cotic built something with those motors I'd be really interested even if I'd be unlikely to be able to afford it although i dont know how realistic that is for a company of cotics size to deal with those companies. The downtime podcast with cy is worth a listen and he explains all the decisions and I've no doubt they got a bike that rides the way they wanted it to , he was also pretty open about it not being a mass appeal bike .
If they'd make a Jeht with that style of frame layout I'd sell a kidney to get it .
Really, in what way?
Having the balls to do things differently to where the mainstream is right now, for a start.
Making your own battery pack and casing means a lot of £ on testing.
Indeed - hence my last sentence. But insurmountable? After all, every firm going down the integrated battery approach is essentially making their own battery casing - it's just the shape of a bike main triangle!
Making your own battery pack and casing means a lot of £ on testing.
Indeed - hence my last sentence. But insurmountable? After all, every firm going down the integrated battery approach is essentially making their own battery casing - it's just the shape of a bike main triangle!
Big firms like Specialized are, many just use the standard Bosch/Shimano units. Canyon had a go at making their own batteries, most of them fell apart and it took them months to recall and replace them.
The other reason not to go 'longer and slimmer' as suggested above is keeping the weight lower down.
I don't own or have any deep knowledge of ebikes, but maybe the forte of this one is how the rest of the bike rides around the battery and motor?
Although based on pretty much every forum thread I've read anywhere on ebikes absolutely nobody cares - all judgements seem to be strictly about the motor and battery. They now seem to be regarded just like any other expensive, semi-disposable Tech - out of date or just generally worn out in 2 or 3 years as the technology progresses so fast.
I totally get it, I'm just not in a financial position to pay to play. Even if I could raise a few grand in the first place, I can't really justify spending it on something with the lifespan of a phone.
What would get my attention though... and this might be a totally ignorant suggestion, I genuinely don't know... would be a bike like this Rocket which could switch out batteries and motors as the tech advanced. If 5 years down the line I still had a great steel framed bike that could have a fresh, up to date motor and a battery half the size retrofitted, that would be an entirely different prospect.
Making your own battery pack and casing means a lot of £ on testing.
Indeed - hence my last sentence. But insurmountable? After all, every firm going down the integrated battery approach is essentially making their own battery casing - it's just the shape of a bike main triangle!
Sure, I was posting to add/ agree 🙂 So many of the integrated DT batteries are made to fit open mold down tubes. Some can be bought as matched battery and tube. There’s also added cost in testing when you mix and match battery and motor, overall it’s far more expensive than regular ISO mechanical tests.
What would get my attention though... and this might be a totally ignorant suggestion, I genuinely don't know... would be a bike like this Rocket which could switch out batteries and motors as the tech advanced. If 5 years down the line I still had a great steel framed bike that could have a fresh, up to date motor and a battery half the size retrofitted, that would be an entirely different prospect.
if I was buying an e-mtb that’s exactly what I would be looking for. The lifespan of the bike would need to outlast the electronics >3x.
As it already is the Intradrive motor will fit Shimano EP8 pattern mounts and the Shimano battery mount is used by a few battery pack makers in Asia.
I can understand a steel hardtail winning bike of the year etc as it offer something different. Whether this offers anything that much different to all the other 150/160mm rear travel emtbs out there i'm not sure.
Motor choice is a bit of an odd one, it's not pushing the boundaries in terms of power/weight/integration yet has a pretty locked down motor system so this is one of the worst motor options if something internal breaks after warranty or you want to change wheelsize etc
"is a standout product in the market for various reasons that make it interesting, inspiring even."
Really, in what way? From the outside it looks like a bike that the company needed to make but had to compromise to keep on brand. I don't think they made it look like a Sports Direct bike because they wanted to?
It's pretty well explained in the review at the start of the thread. Makes a lot of sense once the reasons are on the table. The looks have grown on me fwiw, probably prefer to normal chunky ebikes although doubt I could ever afford one.
I wish they'd made a "universal" cradle mount, to which a variety of welded cradles could be bolted to take a selection of motors
I've a 2018 Vitus Esommet and you can buy an upgrade kit to fit the newer motor and the bigger battery
Regarding the battery, it is the standard Shimano external battery. We did look into custom packs, and actually Shimano are one of the brands that are more open to this than most, but the legislation, testing, validation and just general making-it-safe work is a massive, massive amount of work, and Shimano won't work with you unless you commit to buying a LOT of drive systems because of the work they need to do.
All the other brands aren't making custom batteries, they're putting (extremely ugly I might add) standard batteries from the motor provider inside the down tube.
I don't think the casing shape of the battery is fundamentally bad, it's just that it's been the same for 10 years so there is an association with older ebikes there. I can't help that, even if the internals and cells are all much better than those older batteries. The interesting thing for me from a performance perspective (and it's one of the bigger reasons why the external battery and sensible sized frame tubes made more sense) is that they are lighter than the internal batteries for the same capacity. I don't know why, but they are.
As for upgradability, nothing I have seen from Shimano leads me to believe that you won't be able to bolt a newer motor on the bike in years to come. Certainly the current battery plug/architecture will continue for some time as well.
the legislation, testing, validation and just general making-it-safe work is a massive, massive amount of work,
All the delivery riders seem to manage it fine 😉
Honestly can't believe all the fuss about this eMTB. First and foremost it's a bike to which it's had a motor and battery added in a way that makes most sense from a designer/engineer's perspective. Is that not what we'd all want from an eMTB? Something that rides like a MTB first and foremost, but with the assistance for the ups? Sounds perfect to me.
I'd bloody love one. Just not in a place to be spending anything close to that on a bike of any sort.
More than happy to be told I've bought into the marketing bollocks as a Cotic fanboy 😀
Something that rides like a MTB first and foremost, but with the assistance for the ups?
But my Levo rides like an MTB - a 160mm travel carbon enduro MTB. Yes, it's heavier obviously, but other than that it doesn't ride differently to an 'MTB'
As does my Heckler SL - one of reasons I went with a lighter eMTB* was after riding Mrs a11y's 26kg Cube FSer and hating it. Levo might be different but that ****ing Cube definitely didn't ride like a normal MTB.
* reason definitely wasn't for the Fazua motor 😆
I appear to remember an article in STW (yes, there’s a magazine) de-bunking the myths around frame “compliance”.
I know on my fancy steel road bike the biggest improvement to handling and comfort is from high TPI tyres and in my, albeit limited, knowledge on a full suspension bike a stiff frame is better so that the suspension can do it’s work?
Surely a flexible frame (even though barely perceptible) will inhibit the correct suspension action, as bicycles were designed in a triangulated form for a reason, strength and stiffness?
that ****ing Cube definitely didn't ride like a normal MTB.
Cube have always had a uniquely awful grasp of geometry, so no big surprise there
Surely a flexible frame (even though barely perceptible) will inhibit the correct suspension action, as bicycles were designed in a triangulated form for a reason, strength and stiffness?
Sounds like it should be the case and maybe all the time your bike is upright it’s true but as soon as it’s leant over it all gets more complicated. At least that appears to be the case for bikes, e-bikes or motorcycles
@Rubber_Buccaneer I appreciate that having had the good (?) fortune to have ridden a tuned KH500 over the Cat and Fiddle I would have loved a much stiffer frame with no “compliance”!
"I appear to remember an article in STW (yes, there’s a magazine) de-bunking the myths around frame “compliance”."
Yes, I read that too. Unfortunately it was written by someone with no formal education in engineering and clearly not a lot of self-education on that either, who is also very light for their height. That's not a great starting point for writing an article to explain complex engineering concepts or feel-based rider stuff that needs enough rider mass and strength to get a bike to flex more obviously.
The time when a bike needs the most sensitive suspension is when riding on the limit on flat rough corners - and that's when the force directions mean that the suspension works the least well and the system relies more and more on tyre, wheel and frame compliance.
Yeah, I'm the same. Seat tube insertion and being able to carry a full size bottle are the only two negatives I've got with the current RocketMax. If they updated to the Rocket layout I'd push the button on one straightaway
So, @chiefgrooveguru to get the benefits from a “compliant” frame the rider needs to be heavy and strong? I’ve still not read any articles that explain that a bendy frame is a good thing, it may be that I lack the ability to understand these things, or it may be a case of The Emperors new clothes?
I’ve recently replaced some excellent Shimano Pro carbon handlebars with some OneUp bars, I tell myself that I can tell the difference and they’re more comfortable but I’m sure it’s all in my head, which is ok as I get a thrill just looking at the beautiful shape!
I understand that suspension doesn’t work as well when the bicycle is leaning over as there will be friction and pressure acting on pivots and fork bushes. This is when I would have thought a stiff frame and perhaps bushes instead of bearings would help the suspension work correctly instead of tubes that are bending in an uncontrolled way?
I think there are too many variables to comprehensively say one material or frame design is better. This bike will likely have a more flexible front triangle than a carbon eBike with a massive internal battery in the downtube but the rear triangle might have a similar amount of flex or the ebike having more. When you start thinking of flex in components (wheels, tyres, bars etc) and which direction the flex might be occuring then it's almost impossible to pinpoint one thing.