Molgrips do you think the rest of us lack your experience of chain lubes?
Dunno. No idea how many years people have been riding. And it seems quite a few people have not had experience of hot wax lubes.
You're free to use whatever you want. I only started arguing when people started saying I'm 'evangelising' a product that offers no advantage for some weird reason of my own imagining. You may not want to bother, but for me it's well worth it.
“You must be deaf. Or you don’t care about that loud rattling followed by actual squeaking that develops after about half an hour of riding with that stuff”
I was actually trying to be constructive and share my experience. My bike rides lovely and quiet for mile after mile with the White Lightning Clean Ride. Everyone has different methods, preferences, products and riding conditions. I really don’t see this topic as a reason to be rude. Double check, take a deep breath and be nice to your fellow humans!
That's a good tangential question - why are some people so rude to one another about what to put on a ****ing bicycle chain?
Something the greatest minds of STW might want to ponder?
I was actually trying to be constructive and share my experience. My bike rides lovely and quiet for mile after mile with the White Lightning Clean Ride
Ok I don't mean to be rude, I apologise, but I cannot imagine why it sticks to your chain and not mine!
Squirt.
I use it all year round. Even sub zero despite just using the regular stuff. I apply it before I head out though, not just as I'm about to ride.
Don't worry about chain feeling dry, the bit that counts is the rollers inside where the wax component builds up.
basically you want squirt or smooth. the isue with both is that while they do last your nearly always riding in the rain (getting the bike washed after a ride) so over time it does build up. it then needs a clean. apart from that 10x better
My two pence. The rest of you do what you bloody like, makes no difference to me but I like to tinker about with my bikes in the garage so made my own wax lube. 4 plain old candles, chuck em in an old ally camping pan I no longer use and put in the slow cooker I stole out the kitchen. Once melted fish out the strings and double the volume with lamp oil (effectively paraffin), it still dries solid but is a little softer and doesn't crack off so much. Get a thoroughly degreased chain, it needs to be completely free of the oil based lube trapped within it. And bung it in for ten mins or so to really soak into all the joints, give it a stir round as well before fishing it out and letting it dry before refitting. Loads of wax left over for repeat applications.
I've only been trying this for a short while but my observations are this. Dirt doesn't stick in the same way once you've been in some real slop. You know that feeling of your drivetrain slowly grinding away beneath you as it grinds constantly and you can see all the mud coating you expensive drivetrain. Well I went out on a group ride that had some real gunge and where all the other bikes were making a horrible racket of grinding away to nothing, my chain was clean, nothing had stuck to it and was still running smoothly and quietly. That is a winner in my book and I will be happy to keep using this method until I find something else better.
they make the point that in really adverse winter conditions it lasts barely more than drip lubes
Whos said that? The closest was someone selectively quoting the bit where I said it will almost always last more than one ride.
The "almost" bit being hub deep 24h race slop fests.
Crucially the point is that it lasts the whole ride (hopefully many, many rides), meaning almost no wear and tear on any of them. Rather than leaving you with a dry chain even if just for the last few miles of some rides, which is where the wear happens.
If a chain lasts 1000 miles, in reality it probably suffered all that wear in just a small percentage of them.
I've been thinking of Plutoline but I'm not sure how it will handle the local trails which whilst well drained are 'very acid, very stony sandy soils with a bleached subsurface horizon, over conglomerate.'
Edit
with a pH <5.
Soil acidity is not going to be a significant factor. 5 isn't especially strong and then it's diluted with water and has limited contact times. Wax is also pretty long chained and chemically resistant.
I think putoline didn't work especially well for me (to be clear, it worked better than any other lube, but not significantly so vs the hassle of using it) is because of my local soils PSD -Particle size distribution. I have clay and Devonian sandstone, it seems to readily strip out most lubes in comparison to the more limestone based soils also in my area.
I suspect this is by direct penetration of the chain and physical abraision of the wax. My suspicion is that the clay helps to hold it in there long enough, rather than just drop straight off like gritstone based muds, which should in theory be more abrasive, but it's just a theory and I have no inclination to go to the effort to establish whether it's fact or fiction!
Molgrips do you think the rest of us lack your experience of chain lubes?
Nick, don't, it's like arguing with anti-vaxers! 😂
Viking Juice is very nice
I've been trying Putoline on my commuting/general use bike since last year, rotating a couple of chains and cleaning them with clean spirit before re-waxing each time. I just melt the wax in a saucepan on my Trangia. I've re-used 11 speed quick links quite a few times without problems (but keeping the same links and chains matched). New chains can just go straight on the bike because they are already lubricated.
I found that the wax worked very well over the summer in good conditions, and I was easily getting several weeks of use between swapping chains (eight miles of Monday-Friday commuting + various other riding). With that sort of service interval, the degreasing/re-waxing time was acceptable for me.
The real test is going to be how well it performs over winter. I've had one chain so far that seemed to need re-lubing pretty quickly, but I need to test it for longer to really see if it is worthwhile. If the Putoline doesn't stand up to winter well enough, and needs replacing too frequently, I'm guessing I might end up reverting to the chain cleaner + conventional lube for winter, and Putoline for summer.
I’ve been thinking of Plutoline but I’m not sure how it will handle the local trails which whilst well drained are ‘very acid, very stony sandy soils with a bleached subsurface horizon, over conglomerate.’
Aren't you South Wales or am I confusing you with someone else?
molgrips, apology appreciated. My method for preparing for White Lightning Clean Lube is to thoroughly de-grease the new chain in a plastic jar using paraffin (soak and shake), then Finish Line Ecotech degreaser followed by a hot water rinse. Allow to dry, fit and apply lube. I do appreciate the Putoline method as have used it on motorbikes - it makes a heck of a mess on the patio when the camping stove falls over!
Ride quiet - whatever lube you use!
Same thing I tried with the clean lube. I really wanted it to work, because my goal is to minimise maintenance. So being able to relube without cleaning was a key draw. But no matter what I did it always rubbed off in about half an hour in bone dry conditions. Not great in a 3hr ride. Unless we're talking about different stuff?
Molgrips, White Lightning Clean Ride. Not had a chance to try in the dry for extended periods, I’ve been using it since last spring on various bikes! However, I was expecting it to fail in the conditions I encountered over Christmas, no bike wash facilities so just wiped grit off, re-applied generously, rotated pedals backwards a few times, wiped excess off side plates and left overnight. I’ve tried **** off dry lube and also Finish Line before but this knocks them, and several wet lubes, into a cocked hat! Lasted several over four hour rides. At the end of the day it’s what works for you. Oh yes, shake, shake, and shake the bottle in between chain lengths - there’s no perfect solution. Cycle safe.
right, I've read all the above and I'm going to give it a go with this wax stuff. Not sure how it will resist ND sandy grit sticking to it and turning into a grinding powder rather than a paste but I'm fed up with almost constant degreasing and cleaning of traditional wet lubes.
Some questions from start to finish
1. I've been using white spirit as a degreaser (the shame) and just leaving it to dry off - but I bought a jerry of Screwfix degreaser which is more friendly. Does that need a rinse off after degreasing or do people just leave it to dry?
2. Does this Putoline ming? and what temp approx does it melt at? I'm wondering if instead of a deep fat fryer I could put it in an old pan and either melt on the hob or in the oven - but will the wife moan about the smell in the kitchen?
3. Could I melt it down in the oven in the tin itself?
I think I may take the plunge too, although I think I’m more attracted by Molten Speed Wax as it looks less messy than Putoline.
You can get slow cookers in Tesco or Argos for £12 at the moment!
Previous thread on wax chain lubes.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/diy-chainwax-reciperesults/
1) if its surfactant based they yes, rinse it very thoroughly or it will just destroy any wax/oil you add to it.
2) yes it mings, somewhere between rotten eggs and fish.
Melts at about 120C, it doesnt actually get much thinner as you get warmer either.
3) I guess so. Easiest way is just to rest the tin on top of a trangia like a frying pan. You really want a nice dispersed flame to avoid it getting too hot in one place and smoking (parrafin will start to smoke and burn at about 180-220).
You're not far from me are you?
If you want to try it first or buy half a tin off me (ive got a new tin to top up my fryer) and decant into an old camping pan let me know.
1. I’ve been using white spirit as a degreaser (the shame) and just leaving it to dry off – but I bought a jerry of Screwfix degreaser which is more friendly. Does that need a rinse off after degreasing or do people just leave it to dry?
I don't de-grease before re-frying it. No need really. Most of the crud washes out either as you ride or when you hose it down. Just remove and dunk. Give it a shake around when it's all hot like you do with chips.
2. Does this Putoline ming? and what temp approx does it melt at? I’m wondering if instead of a deep fat fryer I could put it in an old pan and either melt on the hob or in the oven – but will the wife moan about the smell in the kitchen?
Ming? Not exactly. It smells like an old Victorian machine room full of oily rags and metal. Definitely not for inside the house though 🙂
Not entirely sure but you need to get it hot so I set the fryer to 170C.
3. Could I melt it down in the oven in the tin itself?
You're meant to put the tin on a hotplate. I'd be too nervous to use a naked flame, and if you're going to buy a hotplate you might as well buy a fryer. It's extra cost but makes it so much easier. I just plug the fryer in, wait a few minutes, dunk the chain, jiggle it about then hang it up. Give it a wipe when it's cool enough to touch.
You can get slow cookers in Tesco or Argos for £12 at the moment!
Fryer, not slow cooker!
The putoline stuff does smell a bit, but i can personally guarantee that your wife won’t complain about it, so long as you do it when she’s just left for work.
I use an old saucepan.
It’s a faff, but lasts so long it ends up being easier overall.
I use an old spoke to hang the chain up and allow the excess to drip off back into the pan.
Because it’s a faff, if one chain needs doing, I just do all the bikes in one go, no point doing half a job eh.
6 bikes in house.
Edit: like @molgrips ^^ would i **** use a naked flame!!
Slow cooker works fine too if you've got one spare or free but takes much longer and you have to fish the chain out out rather than having a basket built in. I'd prefer to have a fryer though.
where are you now TINAS?
I'm another heretic.
Scottoiler 365 start of every ride and after every hose down.
I’m going to give Putoline a go as soon as I can get my paws on a fryer.
Anyone already using it live in Gloucestershire or Worcestershire?
I've just degreased the chain after saturday's muddy gravel/off road ride (chain cleaner w. Screwfix followed by the old milk bottle rinse) and I'm very impressed.
I've also just checked wear and it's at 0.75% so I'm not going to waste a long term treatment and immediate outlay on that, I'll just Finish Line it for now and get a couple more rides out of it, in the meantime I have another chain on order.
I use these with the factory grease to start with (take a bit off the outers with a quick wipe with solvent) so that'll probably do the first few rides depending on what rides I do - this is my winter road cum gravel cum CX so it could be a few hundred km of road or a few tens of mud-slog depending what I fancy- and then next month's bike part budget looks like being partly spent on a tub of wax and a DFF.
I heat my tin on the gas hob. I think the melting point and the flash point are very far apart. this is how its intended to be done
do not degrease the chain first - the degreaser will affect the wax and its not needed. the molten wax is so runny it cleans the chain. You end up with a layer of grit at the bottom of the tin
Science officer - I find your comments interesting. the only time I had the putoloine wash out of the chain quickly ie in under 100 miles was in very wet peaty/ sandy mud. I took that to be the acidity stripping it out but that was just a guess.
On cost - I am thinking it works out about £2- 3 a year for the wax for 7 bikes and saves far more than that in reduced wear
I'll offer it again - anyone want to try it post me a chain and I will treat it for you
So just to be clear, I could buy a tin of putoline, heat it on a stove (I have a few, could use an old briefcase style one), do the chains in that, then let the tin cool down for storing
Do you guys pull the chains out with something and then let them drip dry and cool down?
If I was using an existing chain I could just degrease and then crack on?
I’m a regular commuter, I like the idea of not faffing very often!
molgrips
Subscriber
I’ve been thinking of Plutoline but I’m not sure how it will handle the local trails which whilst well drained are ‘very acid, very stony sandy soils with a bleached subsurface horizon, over conglomerate.’Aren’t you South Wales or am I confusing you with someone else
Not me boyo.
Anyway, brand new un-degreased KMC X11 chain surface rusting and nasty sticky noisy gritty after 25 miles of commuting, so plutoline will either be a waste of time or great or maybe both.
I use bent spoke to pull it out. Instructions are on the tin. Heat it until the wax is nice and runny. Drop the chain in. Do not put degreaser on it in contaminates the wax and there is no need just wipe it cleanish ( maybe the first time if it is really filthy but rinse it to get ALL the degreaser off.)
Take the tin off the hob ( carefully - nasty hot wax in it) take it to somewhere where you can hang the chain over the tin, fish the chain out and hang it over the tin until all the excess drips off. when cool run the chain thru a rag a few times to take the remaining excess off it, refit to bike.
On my commuter i only had to do it every few months at 50 miles a week
Factory grease is often fish oils
Remove and replace imo
Those 7000 zwift miles must really wear the chain set out being in the warm dry garage
My 2p worth, white lightening clean ride, yes you need to use it every ride but it's cheap,, works well easy on and off application
I remove chain and degrease in an old water bottle
2 hot flushes, first one with a tiny amount of detergent
Refit and apply liberally
Does it make your chips taste of chain lube? If so, I'm out.
What are your criteria for ‘working well’ ? They are clearly different to mine.
I turn the pedals and the bike moves forward with a minimum of fuss or noise 🙂
The Plutoline tin arrived. It’s massive! That should last for ages
my first one lasted nearly ten years
I have just went down the putoline lubing method after reading various threads on here. Only on my first attempt just now but it seems to be lasting in the recent slop better than previous lubes i have used
where are you now TINAS?
Moved to 3 mile cross.
I heat my tin on the gas hob. I think the melting point and the flash point are very far apart. this is how its intended to be done
There's slightly more to it than just flash point, flash point increases with molecular weight, but auto ignition temp decreases. Hence why diesel is a bugger to set alight, but will burn without a spark in an engine if you vaporize it. So creating an explosive mixture is difficult, but getting it to it's smoke point is quite easy , especially as it'a a great insulator when solid, my fryer smokes horribly if I set it to 200C before it's melted. Best way is to leave it to solidify without the basket in (so that you don't end up with a solid lump stuck to the basket which cant be stirred) then when melting it, set the fryer to the lowest temp and leave it a while (take the chains off the bikes, wash the bikes, have a post ride shower).
I wouldn't worry about the naked flame aspect (except the usual stuff like never leave it alone). That's an issue with the flash point not auto ignition.
That's getting into it a bit. You wouldn't worry about smoking around a bike with liquid chain lube on it would you.
I just had to re-do my road bike chain for the first time after 20 hours ish of riding since mid December - much of which was in shitty rain and most of which on wet dirty roads. I had not touched the chain in that time, and until the last ride it was silent. In fact, when using this stuff the chain is much quieter than normal lube, you cannot hear a thing.
I cleaned off the cassette and chainset (not really necessary but just looks nice) and I scraped a small amount of excess wax off the jockey wheels. I didn't de-grease, I just dunked it straight in the hot wax and jiggled it about a lot. Since this chain has only had Putoline from new, the crud on the outside of the inner plates which is normally hard to remove whilst cleaning was wax-based and it just melted off. I hung it up on the garage door cross-members so it could drip on the floor, then I gave it a good wipe down.
I always seek to spend as little time as possible on maintenance and cleaning, but I'm very picky about how my bike works so jobs are always done - just efficiently.
The only situation where it might not be ideal is if you are say time-trialling. It makes the chain quite stiff, you might lose a watt or two.
My 2p worth, white lightening clean ride, yes you need to use it every ride but it’s cheap,, works well easy on and off application
I remove chain and degrease in an old water bottle
2 hot flushes, first one with a tiny amount of detergent
Refit and apply liberally
That sounds like more work than Putoline.
Thanks guys, will take a look at getting some putoline. I could do all the bike chains together at the same time
Is Putoline black and gross versus Molten Speed Wax which is clear and not (but twice the price)? Anyone tried both?
putoline is black and stains clothes. Stinks when hot as well
My guess is that any molten wax lube will work in a similar way.
