I think its different if your riding/ commuting daily or a weekend warrior.
For the later, after I get home I wash my bike, let it dry in the sun, then spray the drivechain with GT85 to expel water and lubricate it and a loose wipe the excess off with an old towel snf clean the chainring(s). Then put it back in the room. The following week or so, before I ride I spray it with GT85 again immediately before I ride and wipe off the excess. No noise, no rust, shiny, no wear fabulous changes, no 'de gunking' or chain removal.
Its a light oil that doen't hold crud, gets in between links and lasts 'long enough' on a day ride. When you wash it off, it's not heavy enough to stick on so the crud comes off and you don't build up the residue that wears your drivetrain. Its the sweet spot for me between lubrication and not dealing with build up or application hassle.
Muc off wet lube does leave a black gunky mess for sure. Never again. The Muc Off Dry lube put on the links individually, is excellent, just gets a bit pricy if you use it frequently. I prefer just GT85 spray, about £2 a tin. Worked for me for 30 years.
If I was commuting, I'd likely want more 'lube and forget' stuff that hangs around longer. Not tried the Putoline or Squirt, so maybe I'm missing out.
+1 for putoline here too. Just started experimenting with the DIY candle wax methods as well.
been using Squirt for a while now but it doesn't hang around as long as id like in the current conditions... returned to a rusty chain a few times over the last few weeks!
certainly never any gunk tho.
Is Putoline any better than Molten Speed Wax?
I've been using MSW on my summer road bike in dry conditions for 18 months and been relatively happy. There's a little more drivetrain noise than when using liquid lubes, but it's acceptable.
I get 300-400kms out of each chain wax before it needs redoing, and I wax/rotate 3 chains simultaneously, therefore I'm only having to cook/wax once per month.
However, with MSW it's a very different story when it comes to rain/wet and winter conditions:
after just 1 wet ride rust discolouration starts to develop on the surface of the chain, and the chain becomes noisy. I've tried this 3-4 times now with the same result, and have gone back to liquid lubes for my winter bikes.
So... is Putoline any better in that regard?
Just started experimenting with the DIY candle wax methods as well.
Interested to see how you get on as I'd expect candle wax to be too hard and flake off. Putoline is sticky and semi-soft, like a cross between candle wax and CV joint grease.
Is Putoline any better than Molten Speed Wax?
I do get light rust on the edges of the outer plates of the chain after I wash the bike and leave it to dry in the garage, but the lube is still well inside the chain and the drivetrain remains silent and smooth. Even when totally plastered in crud! Noise would tell me it needed re-lubing, and I get none.
I have started spraying WD40 on a rag and wiping the chain after the hose-down, see if that helps. But I don't think outer rust is important.
Aye the wax type are much better epically in this weather, if you can overcome your own inertia to actually apply the foul stuff in the first place!
Ive found one (the Viking Lube) that for me at least does have similar properties (no build up, clean chain, and good lube for silent running) that works at least as well.
Controversially I reckon the 12 speed cassettes suffer build up less than older 9,10 speed versions as well.
It really is a game changer, if you’ll excuse the phrase
Too right it is!! Buying a bloody deep fat fryer to oil a chain? What a waste! 😂😂😂😂😂
Another one using Peaty's Link Lube, was on Wickens and Soderstrom No3 before and it's the same stuff but with a blue dye in the waxy bit. Lasts a good 30 miles for my riding without any gunkiness, the only place it struggles is in the Beacons if it's wet where it's dead in 20. But then that soil just sucks any lube off a chain anyway, haven't found anything that lasts longer in those conditions! I just carry a tiny bottle with me and top the chain up if needed.
That doesn’t sound so great. Realise it is the extreme short end but a lot of difference between one ride in worst conditions and the people claiming 3 months?
That's taking it out of context. The point you missed was that a lube that lasts to the end of (almost) every ride*, is much better than one that occasionally lasts 5 minutes leaving the chain bare for most of the time. And that >1 ride and ~3months can and do mean the same thing, it'll often last for months, until you go out for a long ride on a really bad day.
It will last three months of weekly rides. On the singlespeed it lasts three months of mud over the winter (just don't clean the excess off when applying as there's nothing to gum up!)
*and bear in mind that the 'almost' is those days when you decide to try and ride the ridgeway in Febuary, or a bad 24h race when the course was just hub deep mud. We're talking the extreme end of abnormal. I'm planning a HT550 ride this year and wouldn't plan on taking chain lube unless the weather is looking bad enough to question going at all. I did 320 miles in a ride last year, including a fair amount off road, with about 12 hours of it in fairly heavy rain, and didn't need to lube the chain when I got home.
Too right it is!! Buying a bloody deep fat fryer to oil a chain? What a waste!
And yet, here I am doing it. Why would that be? Cos it's much much better.
Fryers are £15 btw but I got mine free from the local Facebook page.
I got a deep fat fryer for 7 quid from Tesco. That's cheaper than a bottle of lube.
I'm currently using paraffin wax. It's good but a little bit too brittle. May look at different additives to improve it.
Anyone got a link to putoline at a decent price? I can only see it for £25
That would be cheap. I paid £36 for my tin a while ago. It will last you for a decade or so
And yet, here I am doing it. Why would that be? Cos it’s much much better.
Of course it is! You do it! 😂
I'm off to service the sash windows, whittle my own spoons and hunt my own lunch.
All faff, but so much better. 😂
Muc-Off Dry Lube works great, shop around and it's usually on offer somewhere.
Can't believe no one has recommended Rock'n'Roll Blue [Extreme] yet - excellent stuff.
Goes on easily, cures fairly quickly, no mucking around with heating wax, stays clean, good in the wet.
Ultimately, in a real bog-bath you'll be wanting to give the drive chain a wash - I take mine off the bike and use the white-spirit in old milk container method.
Given that is the case, you have to balance - you want it to last fairly well - but then be able to strip it off to get the dirt out.
That's where the super oily stuff like Finish-Line wet falls down - it stays on too well.
£24-£25 or so is the price it is, but you won't need to ever replace it, I was going to as it's now over a decade old, but then just cut the block in my fryer into 3, binned the bottom layer with all the crap in it, and the top layer which seemed light and greasy rather than waxy. The remaining bit will probably still do me another 10 years.
ajt123
with putoline you never need to clean a chain - see that pic of my bike - thats after several muddy rides. Retreating it cleans it as well
Can’t believe no one has recommended Rock’n’Roll Blue [Extreme] yet – excellent stuff.
Goes on easily, cures fairly quickly, no mucking around with heating wax, stays clean, good in the wet.
It was my go-to for a long time but then they slightly changed the formulation, something to do with it now being able to be sent by air, and now it's not as tenacious. I've got the remains of a bottle of each and the new one smells distinctly less solventy and doesn't dry my skin out anywhere near as much (always forget to use gloves).
A couple of questions for the putoline fans on here if I may.
I assume you degrease brand new chains before applying?
I could live with the faff if the benefits are there, but how are putoline users dealing with removing the chain off the bike? - my and my wife's mtb's are both 11sp and sram and kmc state that their quick links are either not reusable or limited to 3 uses max. I know they're arse covering and the links will probably last quite a few uses but I 'd rather not risk snapping chains.
I tend to use a descent wet lube this time of year but I haven't got a specific one I must have, currently on Kingud which seems good in terms of collecting gunk. But, I only apply it very lightly and often. I ususlly run the chain through a chain cleaner woth degreaser every 3 or 4 rides which works for me during shitty conditions (season may not be relevant). Putoline therefore wouldn't be too more faff for me really, I'm just not sure about regular chain removal.
Also, when reapplying do you just pop the mucky chain in the fryer? Does the boiling remove the crap?
Thanks.
I did de-grease my chains before first application yes. Not sure how important it is though.
You can just pop the chain back in the fryer - it doesn't really get mucky. When I hose the bike down I put the water jet setting on the chain, it cleans out the grit, then I let it mostly dry and dunk it. Any water in there boils off like frying chips.
I have always re-used quick links all the time. I never knew SRAM links had a limited use - in fact I suspect they didn't until KMC put one on. However if you wanted to be really cautious you could remove the bottom pulley from your mech and if you are running 1x it'll just pop off whole. It'd probably save handling the chain as your fingers do still get a bit sticky with Putoline even though it's not a proper gunge-fest.
Thinking about it - quick links are easier to undo after a few times - so perhaps they are technically a bit looser. But if you think about how it would have to fail, I can't see how removal makes it any weaker in the normal way. And the only two chains I've had snap were SRAM and it wasn't at the quick link - in around 2006-7 when they changed their manufacturing process leading to a load of breakages IIRC.
Muc-Off Dry Lube works great, shop around and it’s usually on offer somewhere.
I used to use it. Stayed on maybe two rides in the dry, in the wet - no chance.
I wonder how you people are defining 'works'? I mean.. your chain still goes round and your bike still goes forward, right?
Of course it is! You do it!
Not just me. I try lots of things, many are shit. Not this one though.
If you're accusing me of purchase bias, remember that TJ recommended it to me - I'm the last person on STW to admit he was right!
same Putline tub in an Aldi £10 deep fat fryer for 3 years now and I can see no real drop in levels or why another 3+ are possible. Try it- you will not go back.
“If you’re accusing me of purchase bias, remember that TJ recommended it to me – I’m the last person on STW to admit he was right!”
I have to agree that this is one of those rare occasions when TJ is right! And Molgrips too. WTAF?!!
Not found anything that comes close to Rock’n Roll Extreme.
sram and kmc state that their quick links are either not reusable or limited to 3 uses max.
My understanding is that SRAMs limit is that links are not re-useable on another chain. You can break and re-join on the original chain as many times as you want. The prohibition means that the chain and link are worn out together, and a worn link won't then compromise a fresh chain. I'm not sure about KMC chains though, sorry.
I also have to say Putoline (and the other wax lubes) consistently come top of every comparison I've seen. I don't use them as I can't be arsed with the faff, but that's not a reason that it wouldn't work for others.
I ordered some White Lightning Epic Ride off Amazon today.
Was always my favourite clean lube, but haven't been able to get it for years.
My understanding is that SRAMs limit is that links are not re-useable on another chain.
Don't tell them, but I've probably been re-using the same Sram links for five or more chains.
Haven't checked whether I'd died yet though.
GT85 is the best by far, but you need to use every ride, I never clean my chains just hose any mud off and retreat with gt85 then again before I ride. I spray that stuff any place that mud goes and it just drops off. All of my riding pals use it now nothing else comes close.
Plus my drive train lasts alot longer. Try it it its cheap and smells luvvvly
you could remove the bottom pulley from your mech and if you are running 1x it’ll just pop off whole
Am I being thick - wouldn't you have to saw the chainstay in two as well ?
I’ve tested plenty of lubes as a mechanic and a rider in The Peak District. White Lightning clean ride is very effective even in thick mud, gritty conditions and rain. Make sure your chain is degreased and dry before use and apply to each roller. Rotate a few times, gently wipe off excess and leave overnight. The solution is best applied at room temperature (probably Californian) and shaken well between applications. However, it has surpassed expectations leaving a chain that just needs a very gentle wipe between applications and a clean cassette and chainrings. I’ve not needed to use a chain cleaner yet - it used to be after every ride! Just come back from a wet two weeks in Cumbria, no bike wash facilities and still good...Now I need to find a way to get rid of all the other lubes I’ve tested... Charity?
Am I being thick – wouldn’t you have to saw the chainstay in two as well ?
Doesn't everyone ride an Orange FS on here?
No you're right. I'm being astonishingly thick!
White Lightning clean ride is very effective even in thick mud, gritty conditions and rain.
You must be deaf. Or you don't care about that loud rattling followed by actual squeaking that develops after about half an hour of riding with that stuff. I desperately wanted it to work, I tried so many times with meticulous de-greasing, but every time it just vanished long before the end of the ride, regardless of conditions. Yeah it might be clean, but that's because it's utterly devoid of lubrication, at least in my experience!
GT85 is the best by far
No, it washes off in minutes again. You guys must just not care about grit, wear and noise.
Moley - you are begging to sound evangelical like me!
I find it incomprehensible that people pay £££ for a tiny bottle of ineffective lube when for a few £ more you can buy a kilo of a far better lube
Squirt on the mtb in summer. Just tried smoove on the road bike and i'm impressed. Still clean and silent after a good few rides, some in the rain.. basically does seem like a long lasting squirt.
Tried putoline but found it a horrible, messy ordeal which left my chain black after a couple of rides and was a bastard to remove when i stopped using it.
I find it incomprehensible that people pay £££ for a tiny bottle
But then you are a bit dense...I know that Putoline is pence/ application but 130ml of Juice Lube Viking is anywhere from £8-£10, I get about 50 applications which is 20p/application at most, that's not £££ by anyone's imagination, I change chains about every 12-15 months on average. My choice of chain lube isn't breaking my bank balance, and I don't need it to extend the life of my chain further.
of ineffective lube..
While it's clearly the best, it doesn't mean that all the others don't work almost as well.
you can buy a kilo of a far better lube
As a weekend mountain biker, I don't need a kilo of lube, and it comes with it's own drawbacks: It's messy, if you get it on your clothes it leaves a permanent stain, it's application requires the chain to come off, and most folk buy a special cooker to melt it, making the initial layout nearly twice as much; and often in comparisons, they make the point that in really adverse winter conditions it lasts barely more than drip lubes, requiring repeated application, making the whole thing less than convenient compared to drip lubes
Evangelists rarely make good advocates...
In all my years of mountain and road biking I’ve tried many lubes, some good and some not so good, and I honestly don’t think the perfect lube exists. However, I’ve never felt the urge to put my chain in a deep fat fryer to reduce a bit of friction.
I find it incomprehensible that people pay £££ for a tiny bottle of ineffective lube when for a few £ more you can buy a kilo of a far better lube
It may be because it works fine for some of us. I ride every Saturday and Sunday. I wash bike after Sundays ride and then clean and lube chain (which takes a couple of minutes)
And I am someone who hates any noise on my bike so a gritty noisey chain is not something I put up with
Still tempted by putoline as would save me that 5 minutes a week but not exactly a "game changer" for my use case.
No, it washes off in minutes again. You guys must just not care about grit, wear and noise.
Disagree 100% with you... GT-85 is great... Been using for countless miles, in just about every condition possible. Had 7000 miles without an issue last year on MTBs and Zwift.
Going back to wax drip lubes vs melty Putoline / Molten Speed Wax: I have gotten on very well with Squirt although I do take a small eye dropper with me for long rides and sometimes reapply when I stop for a break. After a ride just wash the bike down, let it dry (often use my petrol leaf blower to speed it up...) and then reapply Squirt single drip on every chain link on the inside.
Hot Putoline / MSW: if you go on a met muddy ride does it need reapplying or will it last for multiple rides regardless of conditions? If the answer is no I'm struggling to see the advantage over Squirt / Smoove which are simple to apply and reapply.
(Completely random) has anyone tried melting Toko (or similar) ski wax into a bike chain? It's really clean durable stuff and I'm tempted to try...!
Disagree 100% with you… GT-85 is great… Been using for countless miles, in just about every condition possible.
What are your criteria for 'working well' ? They are clearly different to mine.
they make the point that in really adverse winter conditions it lasts barely more than drip lubes
Nonono - the entire point is that it lasts FAR longer than drip lubes. I've been MTBing for nearly 30 years, and 1-2 hours into every muddy ride my chain was full of gritty slop grinding away the metal - until I started using Putoline. Now it remains quiet and smooth ride after ride with no attention.
Look - I've used bloody dozens of lubes in the search for something that works. Why would I be 'evangelising' just this one? Because it's bloody good. I didn't wake up one morning and decide that I'd start banging on about this one product for shits and giggles. I don't fart about with deep fat fryers just for the hell of it.
Hot Putoline / MSW: if you go on a met muddy ride does it need reapplying or will it last for multiple rides regardless of conditions?
As said above - I've ridden in absolute filth since September and I've re-applied once, and it probably didn't even need it. You know how wet it's been - all I've done is hose my bike down, put it in the garage, then ride off on it next time. And it's spotless. Ok so there's a bit of black on the cassette and outer links, but only a little bit.
However, I’ve never felt the urge to put my chain in a deep fat fryer to reduce a bit of friction.
I'm not doing it to reduce friction, I'm doing it to reduce wear, and to save time cleaning.
I posted the following a while ago. My views still stand. The only addition I'd make is that the picture of TJs alleged 'clean' chain and cassette are far grubbier than mine under a Wickens lube regime.
Wickens & Soderstrom no.3, applied to a wiped clean chain after every ride. Putoline and squirt didn’t ever work for me, and putoline is, up front worth as much as 3 botttles of No.3, plus you have to add the faff of heating up really smelly wax. If you want to systemise putoline application like some of the boys on this thread, you need to throw the cost of a chip fryer into the mix too. I found it messy, made shifting sluggish and it left plenty of residue on the chain and chain rings, before being promptly ground out of the links in the sandy clay on the Mendips. 2 wet 20 mile rides and it was gone.
Wickens No.3 doesn’t last as long in the wet as some of sticky lubes, say, like Muc-off wet, but its super easy to clean and seems to increasingly build up a ‘stay clean effect’ as you use it. You can douse the chain in muddy filth and its sounds graunchy and horrid like all the lube has gone, but ten minutes later, you realise that the chain is running free and silent again.
This is the only lube I’ve ever encountered in 19 years of mtb that does this. I used to run multiple chains in solvent baths and all sorts, but now all I do is blast the chain clean with a hose whilst its still on the bike, wipe it down to get the excess water off and reapply a drop per link. Since I’m a bit of a twitcher, I do actually check my chain wear with some regularity and I'm pretty confident that chain wear is considerably slower over this winter too.
Molgrips do you think the rest of us lack your experience of chain lubes?
I've used putoline, it's v effective, but in reality many of us don't have the space, time, inclination to organise ourselves to apply the stuff, when dropper applications are convenient, quick, and in most conditions just as good. Here we are in the depths of mid winter I too can hose off my bike and reapply some lube and like yours my bike is spotless and noiseless.
Choice, a good thing since forever...
