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njee - take it your keeping the xx1 cassette then? I know a guy whose done that and it works a treat!
I imagine that the xtr one will be less hassle to setup as the sram one (as all shimano mechs are a piece of piss really for me compared to sram gearing)
I still think the shifting on shimano is nicer, I always think sram feels a bit cheap in comparison, but that said now my gears are working correctly they do feel instant and precise
rooster42 - Member
I haven't but I ride with a guy with it on his Canyon and he doesn't get up the steepest climbs that others with 2x10 manage.
I get up them, just not as quick as you Tom, but I have a cunning plan for that!
Does it involve an old drill motor and some LiPo batteries?
njee - take it your keeping the xx1 cassette then? I know a guy whose done that and it works a treat!
Indeed I am, whilst like you I found replacing the cable did improve my XX1 no end, I just prefer the feel of Shimano, and I'm not as keen on the 11 speed Grip Shift as I was the older 9 speed stuff.
cool, I think its probably the way to go, and if I ever smash my rear mech I will go down that route too, but to expensive for me at the mo to swap
I do imagine that the shimano stuff will be 100 times easier for me personally to setup mind
the cable on xx1 has a mind of its own sometimes and is a real pain to get right
The routing through the mech is horrible!
Has anyone got the GS cage mechs in stock? I'm quite tempted to give it a go. SRAM shifters feel like cheap tat. Pus the clutch on Shimano mech's seems a whole lot better 🙂
And yes, the cable routing on the XX1 mech is crap. Even worse when you don't check how it threads through before you pull the old cable out 🙄
it is crap the routing, and so bloody sensitive, to absolutely every slight movement
plus the tension on the cable never makes sense, on shimano it used to be drop into smallest cog, and pull the cable taught
on the sram, its just about what ever it feels like on the day
in the end I took the lbs and got it done properly, which was night and day difference
but I do like the cage lock on the SRAM mechs, makes it very easy to take wheel out and clean the jockeys wheels etc
Oh well, ordered an XTR M9000 mech and shifter - anyone interested in my XX1 Grip Shift and rear mech!?
Swap it for a nice cuddle? It is used after all...
I'd like to give grip shift a go again for the XC bike but don't want a SRAM mech on it!
I go quicker uphill and downhill on 3x9. It's the future.
Swap it for a nice cuddle? It is used after all...
I'm sorely tempted...
Since fitting XO1 on both bikes I've maybe turned a few clicks of cable tension. It's the easiest stuff I've ever used/set-up. God knows how some of you are having issues.
Perhaps we're imagining it, and it actually works flawlessly, despite feeling like it isn't?
Yep either imagined or some shite mechanics going on?
Can't comment on the Gripshift though. That was crap 10 years ago.
Perhaps we're imagining it, and it actually works flawlessly, despite feeling like it isn't?
I think this is pretty close to the truth. I've done about 230 hours now on XX1, and I can't stand the way it feels... until I'm in a race, when I forget all about it and just ride my bike.
I can't stand the way it feels...
"Feels"
Ahh now I get it.
Personally if it's silent, I get the gear I want and the chain doesn't come off I have a good 'feeling'.
With Shimano you can use thumbs and fingers to shift, I like this as when standing and changing gear I use different appendages to when sitting. I had a Sram X0 shifter on my DH bike and it was clunky junk compared to new Saint.
And you can shift more gears at once with Shimano.
Personally if it's silent, I get the gear I want and the chain doesn't come off I have a good 'feeling'.
Well until I changed the cable mine was falling down on points 1 and 2 there... It was perfect when it was set up, so something happened in the intervening period, like it got used it shit conditions, and the cables got a bit manky. I'm ok with this. That doesn't mean that you must have experienced the same thing. Perhaps I ride my bike more. Perhaps you maintain it better. There are a lot of variables here. But hey, easier for you to say it's about shit mechanics. 🙄
no JCL not about mechanics as such, I can setup gears enough to make them shift into gear, but it just takes a real keen eye and patience when a new cable is introduced
as njee says somewhere it just went wrong, I assumed it was cassette wear but it wasn't, it was the cable and outer for me
now when its setup from fresh by a lbs I will admit its like new, and barely needs touching, but its obviously getting to a stage where it doesn't like the uk conditions
the mech on mine and my last bike had to be dismantled and all pivots cleaned and greased to get it to drop into 11th cog, again when its working correctly its brilliant and as clean and crisp shifting as anything, sadly mine hasn't stayed that way for a long period of time on this bike (it did on my last one though)
everytime my xx1 stuff goes wrong ill just be go straight to shop as they know instantly how to get it setup perfectly (even they have said its by far the most sensitive gearing system to date, especially the cable tension and routing)
and I do love the xx1 stuff, but I just think shimano stuff is easier to mess with, admittedly having not fiddled with this new stuff I could be totally wrong!
Well I don't know anyone who isn't running it around here unless they've got a Shimano hookup.
Does any bike above a few grand come without it? Those product guys must think it feels good?
I think it feels fine, feels like SRAM. It's very 'snappy' in a way Shimano isnt. It never leaves you guessing if you've changed gear or not. this is unrelated to the fact that mine wasnt shifting at all satisfactorily when I raced a few weeks ago and was sounding horrific. This was remedied with a new cable.
Personally I prefer the much 'smoother' action of Shimano, hence changing to XTR shifters.
If I have a wider range than 11-36 I'll get soft! The fewer gears I have, the quicker I get to the top of hills - too few and the pain outweighs the pleasure though... So 1x10 with Saint shifter, Zee/SLX mech, KMC chain and XT cassette with N-W chain ring does the job for me - have it on both MTBs.
If I have a wider range than 11-36 I'll get soft! The fewer gears I have, the quicker I get to the top of hills
lets not go down the efficiency of spinning route 😉
what we arguing about here?
xx1 is noisy - 100% - but then the chain never drops
xtr shifters "feel" a lot better, very smooth action compared to the "clunk" on SRAM
people who are put off by the "£300" cassettes need to shop around
people put off by "smashing" a mech, need to chalk it up to experience and order another one - lives to short to avoid something "just in case"
njee20 - MemberPersonally I prefer the much 'smoother' action of Shimano, hence changing to XTR shifters.
DO let us know how it feels- I reckon 10 speed XTR is manky so hoping they've remembered to add some feel to the mix for 11.
what we arguing about here?
The crux of it was that JCL refuses to accept that X01 anything but perfect because journos like it. There was some debate about that!
DO let us know how it feels- I reckon 10 speed XTR is manky so hoping they've remembered to add some feel to the mix for 11.
I liked the 10 speed stuff, and it did stay shifting better for longer than my XX1 has. I have been using lightweight outer on the Superfly though, which is probably more prone to compression and crappy shifting.
lets not go down the efficiency of spinning route
I've never been efficient - but I'm a lot more powerful when I stand up and use my whole body! And my local hills are short enough and trail centres gentle enough for me to handle that approach. Probably wouldn't work for big mountains but that's not what I ride. 😛
I can manage everything on 1x10. I'm not even that fit.Do you live anywhere hilly though, as around us there are long hills and plenty of steep/granny sections.
Bristol. Yes, we've got plenty of hills around here, south Wales and FOD etc. It's been ridden in the Sierra Nevada to, up some nice 30% stuff.
Bristol. Yes, we've got plenty of hills around here, south Wales and FOD etc. It's been ridden in the Sierra Nevada to, up some nice 30% stuff.
well we shall all come round and swoon and bow down to your massive legs and pedal mashing then 🙂 Other people may prefer more gears
well we shall all come round and swoon and bow down to your massive legs and pedal mashing then Other people may prefer more gears
If you wouldn't mind, that would be lovely 🙂
FWIW I'm not mighty but I get on absolutely fine with 1x10 and a range expander. It can be a wee bit grindy, I won't deny there's times I'd have liked a 22T especially in a long race day, but I've never needed it. If I had an extra gear, I reckon I'd probably put it on the top not the bottom but the 32-11's done me fine too (ironically, it's got me out of the bad habit of mashing high gears on descents- did not expect that)
My hardtail's just 11-36, I think I'd fail if I was to use that as more of an allrounder- I can power up stuff but it'd grind me down on those long, slightly-too-steep climbs. For 9/10ths of my riding I'd be fine, for that 1/10th I'd be throwing the bike into a tree and walking home 😆 I was kind of over it by the end of the glentress seven...
I've had 2x10 (not too keen on it) and currently have 1x and 3x bikes.
On a descent where you find yourself needing an easy gear for the next climb, there's something nice about one or two trigger shifts to get you into the easiest of gears up front without having to shift the rear mech. This is never the case with the 1x bikes. Even riding undulating tracks where middle ring to big ring, middle and back again repeatedly, makes the gear shifts much easier than the multiple shifts you find yourself having to do on 1x set-ups. It's something that I find far more useful than the narrow wide ring advantages on the other bikes for day to day mtbing.
Assuming I had the money from an XX set up, I'm not sure I would.
Over the summer I rode both a 1x10 Saint and an XX1 bike. Although i can see the extra gearing from SRAM made for a really nice spread ratio, the Saint shifting just felt better. Double shifts on the triggers were great and although saint isn't cheap, I'd rather smash a Saint mech than something twice (?) The price. Both of the bikes were owned and maintained by an OCD pro mechanic, he wasn't happy with the amount of fettling the XX needed to stay performing as a top level drive train should.
Besides that, XT or Saint is, to my mind, the right balance of performance per pound with a little baking factor over SLX. Add into the equation that if I'm not particularly flush and break something in my Shi mano set up, I can downgrade and keep my bike going.
Something i haven't heard talked about, although it was when people went from 7 or 8 to 9 gears at the back was how thethe gears would perform in sticky mud. As the basic derailleur design hasn't really changed since then, isn't it still a problem? Especially with all these fijentooerances people are talking about.
I've been happy with my X0 3x9 but can't with for Father Christmas to bring my Saint 1x10 bits.
Well after some more fettling with a file (don't ask) and random b-tension screw adjustments, X01 was working satisfactory in Yorkshire gloop and icy cold conditions last night, so maybe I'll keep it after all. When it works its great, when it doesn't its shite! 🙂
Assuming I had the money from an XX set up, I'm not sure I would.
XX, or XX1? They're not the same, I found XX more tolerant of gritty cables than XX1, but it still required more fettling than XTR to stay working nicely.
When it works its great, when it doesn't its shite!
That's about the crux of it!
Sensitivity to set up, being affected by mud and grit over time and mountain bikes are not great combinations.
My Spearfish isn't proving easy to find a 2x front crank for so I am sorely tempt by XX1 cassette, M9000 mech and shifter with XTR M985 crank 1x. Then I realise I have to change the sodding cassette body... How much do I need 2 extra teeth and one less - possibly not that much but the gap (even with an xt 16t) is really horrible.....
Why the difficulties with 2x on the Spearfish? Any reason you can't just fit two rings to a triple chainset?
I must say that for me, doubles make even less sense than triples.
In a double I just feel like I'm always crossed up, and bogging down into little/little by mistake, or wringing it's neck with big/big unless I sit and try to calculate my next shift by moving that, then that... I guess I'm just thick.
The simplicity of 1x is just great. Much easier for novices too. One shifter. And a nice Southpaw KS or Reverb lever on the other side.
I'm running 30 with 11-36 on 650B(+) and find it fine for the Eastwood to Hebden run in on the road when I can't be arsed with the canal bank.
30/36 gets me up the climb on the Pennine Way up to the Pike ok too.
ymmv
It's early days for me yet, but I'm liking the X01 setup on my new bike. I was using X9 (2x9 setup) previously with zero problems for many years, so hopefully will be the same.
As an aside looking at the state of many bikes I see out on the trails I'm not surprised some people have issues with shifting. Maybe Shimano kit is more tolerant of lack of maintenance, which may affect some riders more than others. I don't spend ages fettling my drivetrain, but I do make sure it is clean and lubed after every ride.
people who are put off by the "£300" cassettes need to shop around
And end up paying £200 for a cassette?
No thanks, I'll stick with XT.
£170 from CRC btw. Might be better deals out there. That's still pretty bloomin expensive mind
but I do make sure it is clean and lubed after every ride.
Likewise FWIW, but I've been using it a fair bit longer than you.
£170 from CRC btw. Might be better deals out there. That's still pretty bloomin expensive mind
[url= http://www.actionsports.de/en/sram-x1-cassette-xg-1180-10-42-t-11011 ]£150[/url], not XT money, but it's still lighter than the XTR 11-40, and cheaper.
oh, I've jsut started with 1 x 10 on my Cham, how long does it take before you stop trying to change gear with your left hand 😆
stood up loads more, that's about the only difference, and I've got bigger gears on the back, was 32 now 36 (is that right?)
Why the difficulties with 2x on the Spearfish? Any reason you can't just fit two rings to a triple chainset?
Short chainstay design with split pivot and reasonable tyre clearance means not suitable for triples, 24t max small ring and 38T max big ring. I had thought about triple to double but isn't the granny more inboard so making clearance more of an issue?
Just fitted a 40t one up cog, feeling flabby already !!! 😉
ermm
so you can now get a cassette for £150. So when XT 11 speed comes out you could probably go for 1 x 11 Shim / SRAM for around £375 - £60 (driver), £150 (cassette), £40 (front ring), £40 (shifter), £60 ish (mech), £25 chain. Knock £100 or so off that if you are changing chain and cassette anyway
Likewise FWIW, but I've been using it a fair bit longer than you.
Of course, I haven't run X01 long enough to make an informed judgement on its reliability. You've clearly had some issues and I'm guessing you really do look after your bike, so that is a bit of a worry. But when people say this and that drivetrain is unreliable or difficult to set up I tend to take it with a pinch of salt. Plenty of people moaned about X9 in its day and I never had a problem riding through all sorts of shit on it.
Is Shimano really better on reliability? Much of a muchness in my own experience.