So, I picked up one of the Stif Squatch framesets just before the sad closure of the shop. Built it up from scratch with a bunch of spares I had accumulated over time, inc a pair of 140mm Revelations and a 150mm dropper.
Im lucky to live near to the Tweed Valley, and have been used to riding a Trek Slash 29er with 170/160mm on these trails. When I first started out, I really struggled with enduro riding, basically coming from a background of xc and mtb riding through the 90s and 2000s. So, I got a big skills compensator and learned to ride these trails.
Dont get me wrong, the Slash is a lot of fun and you can really smash through a lot of stuff with confidence and a decent bit of speed.
So, I took the HT to the Golfie on Sunday there. Big time re calibration needed from the big bike. However, the ht was excellent. A real reminder that a simple back to basics bike can supply all you need for these sorts of trails if you have the right confidence and basic skills. Heck, I.even got a bunch of PRs on strava once I'd locked in to how it rode.
Love a hardtail. Back to where I started this mtb journey
I too love a hardtail. Great fun and really versatile.
I love a HT as well. That's why I have 2 🙂 Back on the BfE for its fourth winter and it's a lot of fun. I do need a couple of weeks to recalibrate my riding, but it's definitely the bike of choice between now and March. I always say I'll ride it when it dries up, but I Never do even tho I'm probably no faster on my FS. More comfy tho.
Only been to the Golfie once in perfect conditions. Not sure I'd rush back on a HT tho!
I've never been without a hardtail since I started riding in the mid 80's.
Not sure I'd rush back on a HT tho!
Only bad* bit is the climb from the resa to the top.
*Just seems like harder work than is necessary on the rocks.
I'll just leave this here (again!)
I also have two. The Vandal below has mostly been set up as a trail HT in the 2/3 years I've had it, but currently got it set up with a rigid fork and fast XC tyres for a winter XC/Gravel+ option. I'd not ride the Golfie on it like this. I am considering getting a lowish cog 22/23t and popping it on the Moxie SS, and taking it up my local steep spot ...
Nice, got to love a nice steel hardtail 🙂 I always come back to HTs even though I mostly try to ride the "gravity" side of MTB but usually smaller hills and usually smoother trails. Just can't beat the simplicity and cleaner lines of a good HT frame. I'm currently on a middle of the road Vitus Sentier 29, came to it from a Sommet 27 and much prefer the Sentier - the Sommet enduro bike just dulled all my usual trails and felt a bit of a slog. I haven't ridden a modern trail FS though to compare.
Currently I'm in a "I want a trail FS" phase again though and already thinking of what my next C2W voucher might go on next year. Not sure whether to go FS with my current parts, or a nice hardtail (Bird Forge maybe) and some upgrades for it like new wheels. Latter seems a more sensible option given my history, but it's still hard to shake the temptation of a FS.
Not an enduro slayer but my new(ish) to me Cotic SolarisMax frame I got from Kelvin of this parish. Built up with bits from my over built Cascade and then a set of Yari's lowered to 130 and upgraded with a charger 2.1 rct3 damper.
I love it!
Always have a HT in the mix - currently have three of different flavours. Not all get ridden that much, but the Ragley sees plenty of use. Currently considering building a nice Ti HT
"Only bad* bit is the climb from the resa to the top."
It's fine if you're going fast enough. I'm back on the hard tail for winter,, I love it especially on trails like Wardell Way and Flat White. Makes you look for different lines and be a bit less lazy. The group I ride with regularly use hard tails.
It's fine if you're going fast enough.
You're not one of those folks that keep widening the track looking for the "smooth line" in the heather are you? 😉
I'm currently eking the life out of a couple of 26ers (which are probably retro now, bad) - a 456 Evo with Lyriks at 140mm and a Rocket. In the next year or so I think I'm going to consolidate them both into one modern bike. As MiniMonkey is getting more confident I can get out more, which is my excuse for something new.
Initial thoughts were a mid-travel trail full sus (like a Cotic Jeht) but recently I've been really tempted by some of the more capable hardtails (I sooooo nearly pulled the trigger on a Squatch).
We'll see...
Lol. No, sticking to the main track lol
"You're not one of those folks that keep widening the track looking for the "smooth line" in the heather are you? 😉"
Blast right up the middle, you'll see the scorch marks.
I went from a Nukeproof Mega to a Trek Roscoe 9 HT and have zero ragrets 😆
A steel framed HT will be next (have my eye on a Radical Grim Ripper or Cotic BFe), if I don't give in to the allure of an eeb.
Nice Squatch!
I don't have an enduro FS to compare, but I've got a 130/140 trail bike and my Moxie hardtail with a decent 140 fork has no trouble keeping up. The FS is more comfortable, I could ride it for longer and TBH allows for a bit more sloppy riding technique when I'm being lazy. But the Moxie can do everything the FS can and sometimes it's more fun.
Nice to see folks still riding hardtails - barely see anyone riding them anymore round me. Went to Cannock a couple of weeks back in the slop, and didn't see one all day. Used to be a time when everyone switched to them for the winter.
I'm still of the old skool thinking that I ride my hardtail through winter to save wear/tear on my £2-£3k full suss. But now it seems people have no qualms with riding their £5-6k ebike all winter. Maybe I'm doing it wrong...!
Timely thread. I've always ridden hartails, currently running a Bird Zero 29er with a Fox 36 fork. Amazingly capable bike, more so than me. Took it to Antur a month ago and it easily handled itself there, only getting a bit choppy at the back over all the rock slabs.
For the first time ever I now have a FS trail bike, which I'm intending to use on more gravity focused riding.
There was always a steel HT in my collection until I sold my BFe MAX earlier this year. Still unsure I'm happy with that decision even though it cleared the way to adding an e-bike. However, realistically for the amount of riding I'm doing (lack thereof) it was the right decision as I'd always default to my short-travel FSer. I can blame a dodgy back so I will!
Over half my riding is on a dropbar rigid Cascade with 29x2.1s though, but I can't exactly call it a HT MTB.
Gone but not forgotten:
you'll see the scorch marks.
I'll keep an eye out for the dusty line when everything else is frozen.
"You're not one of those folks that keep widening the track looking for the "smooth line" in the heather are you? 😉"
Blast right up the middle, you'll see the scorch marks.
Golfie on the HT works great, it was the only bike I had with me on my trip there and I had a good few days on the hill with it. The worst bit though is the last bit of the climb up to NY, so rough to sit and spin through that.
Indeed, the rocky part of the climb is a bit of a challenge but get the cadence right and pick your way through is a great distraction from the pain!
Oh, incidentally, the gearing on my Squatch is a 32 chairing to a 10-42 cassette. A big change to the 28/30t to 10-50 cassette on the Slash. However, lock in to a slower cadence and I didnt feel lacking for climbing punch, even up the steep bit leading to Big Baw. In fact I got a bunch of PR on the climbs too.
Genuinely had a great time!
I started mountain biking on a full suspension in 2019 and decided to buy a hardtail for winter riding.
6 years later and I'm on a hardtail pretty much full time, absolutely love them.
I ended up ditching my bouncer to go down this route:
I've since decided I might want a second slightly longer forked, Single speedy HT exclusively to batter down things without the worries of Gears or expensive carbon frames... then I saw this last night:
Stealth add...
For anyone thinking about a capable hardtail frame i have a brand new never even built up Marino frame i need to move on.
Built with Reynolds 725 tubing not their cheaper 4130 or 520.
Finished in clearcoat.
It's exactly the same geo as the one I'm currently riding.
Also on a HT as my only mtb - a mkV Cotic Soul - it does everything I need it to, especially with 2 sets of wheels. It even got me round ardRock and never missed a beat.
I did it once to prove a point but after that just pushed... It wasn't the incline so much as the saddle smashing into my holiest of holies for 10 minutes, that was the problem. Good times!
Big baw was an experience on the HT, I'd never been to the hill before so had no idea what to expect, it's not so steep so an efficient bike was good in that regard but it's rough going!
There's noticeably fewer HTs around this last year or two, so its nice to see some proper sorted ones in this thread.
Here's mine, which is unfortunately not ridden as much as I would like in that same time frame, notably to covid enforced reliance on an ebike. I entertain notions of a satisfactory recovery one day but it so far eludes me.
Not one to shy away from a pic - my three
If we're doing photos...
Love it. Hardtails in the wild...not a munter in sight 🤓😍
Yep Baslow Edge
We were the only HTs out last night. Almost everyone else is on an ebike. And as ^^^ up there, they seem happy to run them through the winter. I guess no one wants to ride a HT eBike!
Mine is proper filthy now. I'll leave it outside, bang off the mud, clean the drivetrain and it's ready to go again. I don't tend to clean it at all through the winter. No way I'd treat my other bikes like that!
No way I'd treat my other bikes like that!
How my Levo got put in the shed a couple of weeks ago and is still like it - in fact I think I did another ride on it and got it muckier 🤣
They get washed when they get washed, I'm not religious about it
Always had a HT on the go for the last 30 years. Currently a Ragley Big Al with 150 Pike Ultimates. There is something very immediate and predictable about them, especially great on steep / tech type stuff.
nice to see plenty hardtails still in use, I just got my first in a long time after years on an enduro bike and can’t see myself going back to full suspension for a long time. It’s done everything I’ve asked including golfie.
i splashed out and went titanium, just because.
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Here's my two...
GT Zaskar carbon which I use like a gravel bike and for off-road multiday stuff
Orange Clockwork Evo for proper winter riding
Hardtails... they just look so much better than almost all FS bikes. I'm still enjoying my Mk2 Solaris and much newer Mason Raw.
Keep thinking of building something more "hardcore" as I have a pile of spares that need a frame. Pace 629? Bfe?
@stanley - how are you getting on with the Raw? My Bro (Roadie really) fancied one to go with his Bokeh. It looks like a fast, well sorted "adventure bike" which I think would suit him. He's not into doing much techy stuff.
I love hardtails, especially my Moxie:
Although a big slack (quite heavy) 160mm singlespeed hardtail makes no logical sense, I don't think I've ever enjoyed another bike so much and so consistently, whatever I do with it (apart from road miles, it's rubbish on tarmac!) If I was badass enough to ride it all the time then I would. As it is my Levo gets used for the daily commute, gnarlier away trips and lapping steep stuff - but I ride the Moxie as much as possible!
@stanley - how are you getting on with the Raw? My Bro (Roadie really) fancied one to go with his Bokeh. It looks like a fast, well sorted "adventure bike" which I think would suit him. He's not into doing much techy stuff.
I love it! I've used it for loaded bike packing adventures and unloaded for xc jaunts over the last 2 or 3 years. Often get positive comments when I'm out on it... Always nice! Great company to deal with too 👍
I love hardtails, especially my Moxie:
Although a big slack (quite heavy) 160mm singlespeed hardtail makes no logical sense, I don't think I've ever enjoyed another bike so much and so consistently, whatever I do with it (apart from road miles, it's rubbish on tarmac!) If I was badass enough to ride it all the time then I would. As it is my Levo gets used for the daily commute, gnarlier away trips and lapping steep stuff - but I ride the Moxie as much as possible!
Love the colour
Post-plummet winching. This taken after I headed back for a bike swap after snapping the Dekerf. The Philcentric EBB I had on the Dekerf has been since been swapped over in place of the tensioner.
When I bought this, I thought I was hardtail4life corelord, but a couple of years later, I realised I was mid-forties and asked myself exactly how much longer I should build my skills on a HT before enjoying the pleasures of a FS.
I've had a Norco Optic as well for 4 years. The Signal pushed the confidence and boundaries a ton from my old 26er Prince Albert (as well as having decent steep tech on my doorstep), and the Optic has done the same again.
On a good day on the HT, you remember what know you can ride well on a FS, it's just a matter of riding well enough that you don't need the safety margin*
*terms and conditions apply
Think I may have already asked this in the last hardtail appreciation thread we had here, but I've forgotten now so any thoughts/experience on mullet hardtails? I really like how my full 29er rolls over those momentum-sapping kind of bumps that used to annoy me on a 26", but having really short legs I can get the dreaded "arse buzz" on steeper trails. Quite like the idea of mulleting something like a Banshee Enigma, or that new BFe with the double decker dropouts, just don't really want to lose too much of that "momentum" I feel on full 29.
I've mulleted my Pace RC529 , I prefer the slacker head/seat tube angle and haven't noticed any particular downsides, I have fitted some slightly shorter (170) cranks to makeup for the slight drop in BB height.
I'd go mullet ion the Signal if the chainstay yoke allowed it.
I'd go mullet ion the Signal if the chainstay yoke allowed it.
“Love the colour”
Thanks! It’s not permanent though - after 3.5 years hanging vertically in my garage with its semi-transparent roof it’s turning into a pink fade, lightest on the front of the head tube! Hard to see in that recent photo so maybe it’s not as severe as I thought…
Regarding mulleting, I’ve not tried it on my hardtail but it’s been fantastic on my Levo. Andrew Major on meat engines has written a fair bit about it - I think he noticed it wasn’t so good on his bigger forked (170mm) hardtail but worked really well on his rigid bikes. But he’s in Vancouver so the trails are steep. My gut feeling is that it’ll be less good on flatter rooty trails and general XC but better for pumpy jumpy trails.
any thoughts/experience on mullet hardtails?
No experience. I've toyed with the idea of mulleting my FS bike (Bird Aeris AM), as I do sometimes experience some slightly unnerving bum-buzz. But, had assumed that on a HT, the rear wheel is a fixed distance from (behind) the saddle so wonder if it's as much an issue? TBH, I've not done the same steepness of stuff on a HT as I do on the FS, so probably need to try it.
I've a pink SS Moxie also (I might have mentioned it / posted some pics up here over the past couple of weeks), and it's ability to carve turns is way better than anything I've ridden before, so from that POV, don't feel I need to mullet the Moxie. But will review once I've had it on some steeper stuff.
Hardtails are ace, love my Ragley Bigwig. It always takes afew rides to reacquaint myself after riding the FS most of the year. It's not as fast on the descents but feels it and that's what matters, can be hard on the knees though.
Anyone fancy a hard tail meet up at the Golfie over the holidays?
Anyone fancy a hard tail meet up at the Golfie over the holidays?
I would absolutely love to. Sadly, I’m a 9 hour drive away.
Anyone fancy a hard tail meet up at the Golfie over the holidays?
I'd be up for this after the new year, also a long drive for me from South Wales but I've been wanting to go to Scotland for a good while.
Brilliant idea though, I've seen plenty of "ebike only" rides but didn't think to set up a "hardtail only" one. 🤣
Anyone fancy a hard tail meet up at the Golfie over the holidays?
Sure, hoping to get a few festive spins in...
I've had loads of great hardtails in the past but its been a few years whilst I dabble with plastic bikes, bikes with suspension, bikes with motors. So I'm off to pick up some lovely Reynold 853 Hardtail goodness this afternoon.... You lot are a bad influence that pushed me over the hill with the decision!
Anyone fancy a hard tail meet up at the Golfie over the holidays?
I would absolutely love to. Sadly, I’m a 9 hour drive away.
6-7 hours for me otherwise I would've been up for it as well! Been years since I've done a forum ride. Maybe something around either the Peak District or something more accessible from the Midlands would be good though if anyone's around that area!
I've not owned a full suss in 15 years. Most of my local riding is woods/ singletrack that is testing enough on a hardtail. Trips are a little more challenging (Wales or places further afield) but I'd much rather the challenge of being slightly under biked than too frequently over biked. 
Tom it’s a BTR Ranger. My second one, my last was one of the reader’s rides that Hannah ran a few years back. This one is 29” wheels, with the old skool X-brace gussets. Love it. There’s a few pictures of it/build on BTRs Instagram page if you’re interested..
Also snapped up a Stif bargain to replace my 5yo Orange Crush. The Squatch is a lot of fun, but I've yet to try it on some proper climbs & descents.
Pretty much only ride my HT now here in the lakes, as my son 'inherited' my fs. Love it!
any thoughts/experience on mullet hardtails?
Mine back up ^^^ the page is a mullet. Only really did it through laziness/cheapness and a small amount of curiosity though. I had a decent 29er fork and front wheel already and didn’t fancy paying out for more new parts than I needed just to get the bike rolling.
Personally I like it, the bike rewards being a bit more aggressive and getting forwards to weight the front tyre. Obviously it does slacken the bike a bit more (how could it not?). But then the benefits seem worth it to me, the front rolls over stuff a smidge better, I can still clear a 2.6”+ rear tyre for a bit more cushioning. Climbing it’s fine and feels pretty efficient to me still (I am more of a ‘wincher’ than ‘attacker’). It’s more stable at speed than I remember my old 26er HTs ever being (never had a 27.5er before) I can chuck it about a little easier than my old 29er FS and/or my rigid 29er, it’s just a slightly different handling bike, an aggressive trail HT, the trade off for not having rear suspension is a tighter chainstay while still having a more forgiving back tyre. YMMV of course.
Love this thing. First bike I built from frame up, really quite enjoyable, suits the riding I do (XC mincing / bikepacking / mucking around in the South) a lot. This from an afternoon out on the SDW over the summer.
Steel makes so much sense for these sorts of bikes.
any thoughts/experience on mullet hardtails?
Mine back up ^^^ the page is a mullet. Only really did it through laziness/cheapness and a small amount of curiosity though. I had a decent 29er fork and front wheel already and didn’t fancy paying out for more new parts than I needed just to get the bike rolling.
Personally I like it, the bike rewards being a bit more aggressive and getting forwards to weight the front tyre. Obviously it does slacken the bike a bit more (how could it not?). But then the benefits seem worth it to me, the front rolls over stuff a smidge better, I can still clear a 2.6”+ rear tyre for a bit more cushioning. Climbing it’s fine and feels pretty efficient to me still (I am more of a ‘wincher’ than ‘attacker’). It’s more stable at speed than I remember my old 26er HTs ever being (never had a 27.5er before) I can chuck it about a little easier than my old 29er FS and/or my rigid 29er, it’s just a slightly different handling bike, an aggressive trail HT, the trade off for not having rear suspension is a tighter chainstay while still having a more forgiving back tyre. YMMV of course.
Kinda what I expected the compromises to be like then 🙂 it's quite flat and rolling where I mostly ride - Woburn, Chicksands and a couple of local bike parks with jump/flow trails. It's only when I get time to go further afield that I end up on the steeper stuff. So full 29 might be a better choice to hold the momentum. Been meaning to get a cheap 27.5 rear wheel just to try it on my bike, though without any means of compensating with the geometry I'm not sure if it'd give it a fair try! But at least could see how it rolls and get a bit of a feeling for it.
Been meaning to get a cheap 27.5 rear wheel just to try it on my bike, though without any means of compensating with the geometry I'm not sure if it'd give it a fair try! But at least could see how it rolls and get a bit of a feeling for it.
I suppose the difference here is I’ve jacked the front of a 27.5” bike up with a 29” fork/front wheel, where you’d be dropping the arse end of a 29er with a 27.5” wheel.
Mine benefits from the shorter stays (425mm)(IMO/IME), the BB went up by maybe 5mm (static). The inverse would apply to a 29er, your BB will drop a smidge, you’ll still have relatively long stays, offset somewhat by the option of a cushier rear tyre.
Anyway cheapo 27.5” rear wheel option if you fancy:
£60 from sport and leisure (for now)
I’d go have a poke about on Banana industries for a 2.6” or wider tyre.
If you don’t like it, you’ll still probably break even eBaying the wheel off next summer.
Hardtails in the wild today at GT. So good 🤓🤜
^the Switch9er looks great too! One of those frames that just looks "right" 🙂
@cookeaa I'm thinking that because my bike is fairly middle of the road and not very progressive geo-wise that I might just about get away with it, at least to try it out. 428mm, reach 66* HTA and 61.5mm BB drop (all unsagged) so it's not like it should make it -too- raked out or low. Thanks for the wheel link - looks like a good buy. Too skint before Christmas to buy now but hopefully still available after December pay day!