Forum menu
Yep but nothing says don't bother than dropping the coverage even more. Less coverage means less sponsorship means less help for the riders coming through. Sometimes you have to do things for the right reasons. The UCI removing/wanting to remove the rules around needing a woman on the team to score points in the team events is another way they don't seem to be there to build or lead a sport just milk it.
[i]I'd say that was over representing the demographic currently.[/i]
Depends if you think more women should take part in the sport you do. As Mike suggests, to get to equality you can't be passive.
Speeder - MemberI'd say that was over representing the demographic currently.
Why should it represent the demographic?
I'm going to play devils advocate here but as broadcast time is tight and this is a male dominated pass time.
Lets say the mens top 25 are covered by 10-15 seconds (rough guess) - how far down the women's field do you get a similar gap?
What would you rather do watch great men & 5 women or 15 great men 5 great women 5 good women and some that are err less good?
as broadcast time is tight
There's not a rigid broadcast slot like on TV though, I think the current coverage of the women's race is adequate.
We can't force more women to race world cup DH unfortunately, they'd only try to sue us if they got injured.
Hopefully the UCI can put more effort into expanding the participation at lower levels to feed into the WC later.
Speeder - MemberWhat would you rather do watch great men & 5 women or 15 great men 5 great women 5 good women and some that are err less good?
At the world champs, the highlight is always watching all the riders that can't really ride and are only there because nobody else in Tuvalu owns a bike... So forget the top riders entirely, let's go the other way.
The mistake though is equivalence; the top 15 women riders by definition [i]are[/i] great women riders, you're just judging them by the wrong benchmark.
Oh- the other benefit of showing a wider field of riders is that it helps show how hard the tracks are.
At the world champs, the highlight is always watching all the riders that can't really ride and are only there because nobody else in Tuvalu owns a bike... So forget the top riders entirely, let's go the other way.The mistake though is equivalence; the top 15 women riders by definition are great women riders, you're just judging them by the wrong benchmark.
Oh- the other benefit of showing a wider field of riders is that it helps show how hard the tracks are.
Some good points there though personally I do tend to FF through the wobblers, male or female if I'm not watching live.
He'll be loving it, from what i hear he has had nothing good to say about Marzocchi.Interesting to see what Hart does now Marzocchi have effectively folded and become Fox?.
Re. The women, if you're good enough you'll be fine...see Rach Atherton, Manon and Tahnee....all fast, all competing in the BDS which is essentially the proving ground for World Cup success and all attracting sponsors.
The problem the female class has is the massive gap in talent between the top riders as listed above (also include Myriam Nicole in there) and other supposed 'elite' WC riders making up the top-10 despite being more than 20secs behind the winner.
There was a Canadian girl at Mont Saint Anne this year who was hyped as being able to ruffle the feathers of the big guns....great I thought, new talent coming through....she did nothing to trouble the likes of Atherton et al.
That's where the problem lies, not some hand wringing PC, should we give more TV coverage to the women? argument....the women themselves need to sort out their training, their bikes, what domestic series to get noticed in etc....put out the promo vids, garner the results and the deals will come their way....but all the time Atherton, Seagrave and Carpenter can put 20secs+ into the other girls in the top-10 then there's your problem....it's not sexism, the male category is so tight with mere seconds often covering the top-10....the women not so.
You can hardly blame viewers for not being that fussed about watching that.
..but all the time Atherton, Seagrave and Carpenter can put 20secs+ into the other girls in the top-10 then there's your problem
So when gwinn was putting 10s into the rest of the field for a season journey were not bothered about the rest of the field?
How exactly should they sort out their training? How do you get faster for a world cup? By that logic they shouldn't even turn up which leaves a field of 5 or so to run in the Wc and no feed it.
All other male dominated sports are trying to rectify the gender imbalance that has grown up, why should mountain biking head back to the dark ages.
[url= http://athertonracing.co.uk/2015/11/11/we-sign-with-trek/ ]The worst kept secret in DH racing [/url]
deviant - Member
That's where the problem lies, not some hand wringing PC, should we give more TV coverage to the women? argument....the women themselves need to sort out their training, their bikes, what domestic series to get noticed in etc....put out the promo vids, garner the results and the deals will come their way....but all the time Atherton, Seagrave and Carpenter can put 20secs+ into the other girls in the top-10 then there's your problem....it's not sexism, the male category is so tight with mere seconds often covering the top-10....the women not so.You can hardly blame viewers for not being that fussed about watching that.
The problem is the lower proportion of women in many sports, but that is no reason to say they should only have coverage/opportunities proportional to the level of participation. Competitive physical sport is one of the few places separation of men and women can be appropriate, so they deserve the same coverage.
Yes many would rather watch the fastest/strongest/'best' athletes and if they are running in the same event its understandable to want to just see the fastest riders, irrespective of gender, but they ARE split so it unfair to pick and choose.
Mike has it..
mikewsmith - Member
All other male dominated sports are trying to rectify the gender imbalance that has grown up, why should mountain biking head back to the dark ages.
So when gwinn was putting 10s into the rest of the field for a season journey were not bothered about the rest of the field?
And Sam Hill doing the same a few years before...
I really enjoy watching the womens downhill at the start of the Red Bull broadcast. I honestly couldn't give a stuff that they're slower than the men, they're still bloody rapid and part of the fun of DH world cups is watching the riders pick different lines and the time-checks
[i]What would you rather do watch great men & 5 women or 15 great men 5 great women 5 good women and some that are err less good?[/i]
I'd like the second option please, top 15 in both
as SOY suggests they are still way better than me, and TBH outside the top15 men, you know they're not going to get near the podium anyway.
so will the Athertons be the only Trek team? leaving Brook Mac and Brannigan without a team? also Laurie Greenland will be racing elite next year?
outside the top15 men, you know they're not going to get near the podium anyway.
I quite often skip the first few of the men's runs anyway unless it's one of the know lunatics or one of the top guys had a poor quali
To throw another sport in the mix where there's better equality in competition.
I watch all the IFSC bouldering and lead-climbing comps on youtube (speed is a bit shit tbh so i ignore them)
When i comes to bouldering you have 2/3 women who are a step above the rest when it comes to competitions and you can usually guarantee that they'll be the ones coming away with the result. Do the IFSC focus less on the women in their broadcast because of it? No. the format of their comps gives equal coverage to both sexes and both are very interesting to watch
Their new team kit is a bit odd, it doesn't seem to have their main sponsor on it
They could quite easily (IMO) change which days the men and women race, eg. run the women's finals on Sat and men's on Sun = full televised runs for everyone. Limiting the amount of women who can race is quite frankly, shit. I still think 80 is a good number for men's finals and there's no good reason the same amount of men & women can't race.
heir new team kit is a bit odd, it doesn't seem to have their main sponsor on it
I thought you were being sarcastic, but you're right! Just lots of iXS logos.
monkeyfudger - Member
They could quite easily (IMO) change which days the men and women race, eg. run the women's finals on Sat and men's on Sun
i'm more interested in watching the top10 women, than the lower ranked men.
ie: get the also-rans out of the way, then top10-women (full race runs), followed by top10-men (full race runs).
(or men/women vice/versa, to be more groovy about it)
Hmmm top 10 isn't enough for the men at the moment. We've had a few winners in 2015 that qualified outside the top 10, it was bad enough missing big chunks of their runs never mind missing 'em all together.
They sign with trek but the website still has loads of GT logos everywhere….
thisisnotaspoon - Member
Naaaaa, look at a trail center car park:
Fixed for Surrey Hills... 😀
YT [s]Orange[/s]
YT [s]Orange[/s]
YT [s]Santa Cruz[/s]
YT [s]Orange[/s]
YT [s]Orange[/s]
YT [s]Santa Cruz[/s]
YT [s]Santa Cruz[/s]
YT [s]Orange[/s]
Santa Cruz
Santa Cruz
Orange
Orange
Santa Cruz
Santa Cruz
The press release speaks of Trek Factory Racing being a new team. Does this mean there will be two teams racing under the Trek banner as the original team is called Trek World Racing? All very confusing to me. Nothing of note on the Trek World Racing team website.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/atherton-trek-racing-2015.html
From the article
The Athertons have signed a three-year contract with Trek as the title sponsor while they retain ownership of the license and management of the team. The outfit's name will be Trek Factory Racing (it was called Trek World Racing in the past), and it will also include young gun Taylor Vernon, the junior who raced under the GT banner with the Athertons over the past few seasons.
They will be the factory Trek team but run the team themselves.
Their management strikes me as being pretty shrewd, esp with regards to keeping the license of the team. Will be interesting if they continue with some of their other long term sponsors (like Conti tyres)or if they are forced to go in-house to Trek.
Good move and pleased Vernon is going, what about Maes or did I miss something, he's the one I'd want to have under contract, he seems able to win at EWS level and the following weekend at a DH World Cup!....incredible talent.
Wonder what plans Dan has re. the Slash and Remedy?!.....i'd happily run a Slash as a mini-DH bike if I didn't want a dedicated machine for the job.
Be interesting to see if Trek makes them run Bontrager tyres.....nothing wrong with them but they've been on Continental for so long now the switch may take some time.
Where does it leave Brannigan and Brook Mac?...or are they a straight swap into the GT team!?
continue with some of their other long term sponsors (like Conti tyres)or if they are forced to go in-house to Trek.
> http://www.pinkbike.com/news/atherton-trek-racing-2015.html
if you read the article.... (I know there are a lot of words but there are some pics too)
if you read the article.... (I know there are a lot of words but there are some pics too)
Nice bit of political manoeuvring there by Gee, looks like they'll be off Conti then.
It'll be interesting to see if GT have a works team or not, given how the Athertons management ran the team rather than the factory I wouldn't take it as a given. It'll definatley up the UK presence of Trek (not that they really need it...)with all the PR gigs they put on (experience days / fox hunt / hardline etc) They definitely know how to play the marketing game and maintain a decent publicity machine alongside the World Cup results. If they can stay fit (Dan!) Trek will get their moneys worth.
Maes wasn't an Atherton product, I may be wrong but I think he was spotted riding some enduro races in belgium and france by a GT guy and placed in the Atherton setup because they were doing EWS with Dan and had the logistics in place.
Seem to remember Maes big brother rode GT's in a Belgian or European DH series.
If he's contracted to GT and not the Atherton's he can stay with them easy enough. It is notable that he's not in the press release anywhere, even when Dan mentions EWS.
The Athertons like to bring in and develop young talent.
They talked about it in an interview a few years ago (with Dirt I think). It was mainly about becoming a brand in themselves and being able to continue after competition (like Dan is doing) as they understood that they can't keep on being racers forever. Steve Peat and Cedric Gracia have done the same and moved their bankability beyond race results. Think Dan Brown talks about developing new talent and guiding them for a few years under the Atherton banner before letting them go their own way.
id say laurie Greenland, mike jones, and martin maes is where the talent is, not taylor vernon
Yep, but Maes has proven himself so why stick under the Atherton wings? He can make his own name bigger now, whilst Taylor kinda needs the big team name to get anywhere at the mo!
They must still believe he's got it despite his injury setbacks, but I agree Greenland and Jones look more like the future of British DH at the moment. Jones particularly.
GT would be daft to let Maes leave too.
id say laurie Greenland, mike jones, and martin maes is where the talent is, not taylor vernon
Yep, but are they contracted to the Athertons? If not then it doesn't matter and we won't be seeing them on red Trek's this coming season.
Vernon isn't a bad rider and could really jump up, look what's happened to Mike Jones and Loris Vergier with a bit more experience under their belts
And what will happen to Martin (Maes)?
Martin is not only a phenomenon as a rider but the best team mate that we could ever have wished for. When he joined us as part of the Atherton Academy in 2012 he was just 15 and pretty shy; he’s grown-up with us and we’ve watched him lay waste to the Junior fields in Enduro and Downhill World Cups and develop into a very serious contender for an Enduro World Series win this season. We’ll be cheering him on all the way and we’re delighted with the move, it’s the perfect step for him and we’re confident that he’s in the best possible hands at this stage of his career. We’re expecting an announcement from his new team anytime so it’d be wrong to steal their thunder.
From the Dirt interview. Sounds like Maes isn't staying with GT.