I bet the realistic sale price of a used Amflow is a bitter pill for owners. They might end up riding them into the ground.
I think that is the reality for most ebike owners, no? Unless you flog it at a decent loss towards the end of a warranty period. I tried selling my Focus after having a new motor fitted a few years back and didn't have a jot of interest at what was a pretty reasonable price. I wouldn't buy one 2nd hand myself tbh.
I bet there are a few Amflow owners kicking themselves now, and we will see a few Amflows coming on the 2nd hand market
The most amazing thing about the amflow is that it is, according to a YouTube bike tester that I bumped into while riding, a catalog frame. A good one, but still an off the shelf frame.
Re the battery on the atherton, I read that it is good for 2000 meters of climbing. That would give an indication of its size.
speaking of that, I’d amount of elevation gain a normal metric for e-bikes? Ive not looked into them, so I’m not familiar with the measurements.
Price wise it seems pretty competitive to me, and like supporting UK firms even if it means a bit of a premium.
Problem is not the RRP, it's that you won't be able to pick one up for 4k in the sales like most other brands.
Problem is not the RRP, it's that you won't be able to pick one up for 4k in the sales like most other brands.
Smart folks at Atherton if so.
The most amazing thing about the amflow is that it is, according to a YouTube bike tester that I bumped into while riding, a catalog frame. A good one, but still an off the shelf frame.
"Bloke said, down the pub.. " : )
“elevation gain a normal metric for e-bikes”
It would be useful if we all weighed the same and used the same ratio of power assistance to human power. But we don’t so it’s neither useful nor normal. I’m sure it’ll be a decent sized battery, to be honest everything is much of a muchness.
One day this week on my old ebike I used 60% of the battery (500Wh new, claims to be at 90% max capacity so 450Wh now) in about 10 miles and 1000’ of ascent because it was ridiculously muddy and I was in a hurry - and then rode it with the power mostly off because I wanted to save the rest of the battery for my rush home later in the day.
Is anyone else simultaneously going "Oh that's astonishingly cheap" and "It costs HOW MUCH?" Schrodinger's Pricetag has struck bigtime for me.
It does basically feel like they could have charged more, since unless they've added a lot of production capacity they're probably production-limited at this point rather than market-limited? Which is an awesome place to be as a manufacturer but does normally mean you price as high as you can.
Though as Kamakazie says maybe the intention is to sell every last one at this price and never discount anything, which could easily work out a higher profit rate over the life of the thing.
Problem is not the RRP, it's that you won't be able to pick one up for 4k in the sales like most other brands.
Smart folks at Atherton if so.
Orange used to play that well in the 2000's. Never many if any UK built bikes left at the end of the season to discount.
It would be useful if we all weighed the same and used the same ratio of power assistance to human power. But we don’t so it’s neither useful nor normal. I’m sure it’ll be a decent sized battery, to be honest everything is much of a muchness.
Thanks. I guess if it were to exist as a statistic it would need to be a standardized test in a controlled environment.
it’s something that I’d be interested in as I’d use an e-bike for shuttling. I’d be disappointed to get 3/4 of the way up a fire road for a big descent snd discover that I had to pedal! Especially on my second lap.
Considering their other bike prices and all the other factors, this is priced lower than I’d have expected.
im looking forward to the full reveal
“Thanks. I guess if it were to exist as a statistic it would need to be a standardized test in a controlled environment.”
To massively oversimplify things, 1Whr is 3600 Joules. If you convert 500Whr into potential energy, then it’ll lift an 85kg rider and 25kg bike 1700m vertically, assuming no losses and no effort at all from the rider (both are impossible). Motors aren’t perfectly efficient and you have drag and other losses but also you can pedal and help the motor out a lot. I’m sure this bike will have more than 500Whr of battery.
I’ve had too much life in the way to take my Levo to many fun places, but a few years ago at BPW I got 13 full laps in - 10 uplifts and 3 pedalled up (whenever the queue looked annoyingly long). I probably used the motor too for the bits back up to the uplift and from the minibus to the top - but not on the trails because I wanted to see how past the Levo (and I) were vs my previous visits on unpowered bikes.
The most amazing thing about the amflow is that it is, according to a YouTube bike tester that I bumped into while riding, a catalog frame. A good one, but still an off the shelf frame.
They were very lucky to find an off the shelf frame that fitted the motor and battery they designed that hadn't previously been used in any other bikes.🤔
Is anyone else simultaneously going "Oh that's astonishingly cheap" and "It costs HOW MUCH?" Schrodinger's Pricetag has struck bigtime for me.
Yeah I get this a bit with bike prices now . My most expensive bike was my cotic flare max in 2019 which was about 3.5 k which an inflation calculator tells me is 4.7 k today so 7k for a Atherton with a avinox doesn't sound to bad but equally I think I'd have a bit of a mental block on spending 7k on a bike . I've tried to remove finance and credit from my life as much as possible and whilst it does make life less stressful it makes big purchases a lot harder .
It's funny but when the Atherton brand first started and Gee and Rach were still racing I was unsure if the link between the siblings and the brand would prove to be a positive but it's developed into a fairly strong brand in it own right with some great looking bikes .
elevation gain a normal metric for e-bikes”
It would be useful if we all weighed the same and used the same ratio of power assistance to human power. But we don’t so it’s neither useful nor normal. I’m sure it’ll be a decent sized battery, to be honest everything is much of a muchness
Indeed. The testing will no doubt have been done by one of their crew, if not one of the Atherton's themselves, weighing 75-80kg and fit as a fiddle, able to smash a good chunk of their own watts in to achieve that amount of climbing, not Mr Johnnyatepiesforbreakfast
Problem is not the RRP, it's that you won't be able to pick one up for 4k in the sales like most other brands.
Last year I bought an Orbea Rise. Ticket price was £8,200. I knew at that time in a year I’d be able to buy one with 30% off. Just over a year later you can now buy one for £4,800. I got it on salary sacrifice roughly paying the same money
Orbea obviously pay a company in China to make the frames in bulk for a price so they then need to sell these units. Clear though they still make a profit
Im surprised how many people are buying these ‘cash’ . To me they represent vfm via salary sacrifice .
As to batteries it’s arbitrary what they say it will / won’t climb. Stick the Avinox in full power and it drains quickly, put it at 1NM and I’m sure they would get more than the figures they are quoting.
Just release the wh value of the battery and the bike weight and let people make their own assumptions.
My hunch is that the Avinox doesn’t do as good mpg as a Shimano system, but then it has so many pluses to the Shimano system too
It will be interesting to see if there will be an all gushing eMBN video saying how amazing the bike is or did Amflow slip them £5 more to do that vid
Really not seeing the issue, the base Santa Cruz Bullet, is just short of £7K. So why would an Atherton bike be less money? Again I'd expect it to be much more. I'm far from rich or have any high flying career, but have reached an age where I have no bills or debt, so those £5K bike that I didn't used to be able to afford, are now something I buy. As for this a Atherton bike for ONLY £7K, if I'd realised earlier...
who are all these people who can afford that much money for a bicycle?
Certainly no one that I know,
so much shit, they cant afford a loan? Ppl have been buying expensive toys forever with loans, so this is just BS
These bikes will be obsolete by the end of the year anyway when the latest fad of 32” wheels takes over!
Happily sold my 2018 e-bike for a quarter of what I bought it for last month, I think that reasonable for a 7 year old bike. The new owner is over the moon, and has a useful form of transport, as he doesn't drive.
Whilst I wholly agree that the increasing financial disparity across most of the developed world since the 1960s is appalling
Pretty sure if you read Factfullness by Hans Rosling, you'll find your assumptions are wrong (tbf I'm still reading it), the WHOLE world is becoming a nicer place overall.
“Pretty sure if you read Factfullness by Hans Rosling, you'll find your assumptions are wrong”
I don’t know about the whole world but the gap between richest and poorest in the developed world has sadly widened hugely over my lifetime. There’s tons of data out there to support this statement, I’m not some fringe socialist lunatic.
They were very lucky to find an off the shelf frame that fitted the motor and battery they designed that hadn't previously been used in any other bikes.
Good point. Perhaps they modified an existing design to fit their motor? perhaps it was an off the shelf frame designed to fit their motor avinox? Perhaps they modified the people he was dealing with in china lied to him?
To massively oversimplify things
Thanks again
who are all these people who can afford that much money for a bicycle?
Certainly no one that I know,
A lot of people pay out a great deal of money to support their hobbies, be that bikes, cars, musical instruments, golf bats and green fees, etc. I'm not in the demographic for this bike but I don't begrudge those who can afford it.
@z1ppy “so much shit, they cant afford a loan? Ppl have been buying expensive toys forever with loans, so this is just BS”
This quote is a good indicator both of the gulf between the rich and the less well off and also the lack of life experience (or indifference) that some people on this forum display.
I would like to think that this ignorance is unintentional and just a result of the small bubbles that some people live and work in.
Im surprised how many people are buying these ‘cash’ . To me they represent vfm via salary sacrifice .
Perhaps you didn't realise that not all people have access to salary sacrifice. If I was in the market for such a bike I'd be paying via credit card & paying off at the end of the month but it's the same price as my most expensive ever two wheeled machine & that's got 120bhp to play with, so I'm out 😀
who are all these people who can afford that much money for a bicycle?
Certainly no one that I know
It would be great if building sub £500 bikes of quality in Wales made sense, but it doesn't. So if we want anything built in the UK (and part of our economy), be it a Brompton or an Atherton, we need to be ready to accept they'll be too pricey for many of us. Making something a large chunk of the UK population can't afford (see also all cars) is part of normal business. Many of us will never be able to afford an Atherton, or a Morgan, or even a brand new Vauxhall Corsa... that doesn't mean they're not worth building here for other people. Lots of stuff is made for the better off, not the majority. It's not just a cycling thing, is it.
Lots of stuff is made for the better off, not the majority. It's not just a cycling thing, is it.
Agreed no one has built an affordable helicopter yet !
Perhaps you didn't realise that not all people have access to salary sacrifice
Agreed not everyone has access to a cheap company van / buying stuff through the business. Swings & roundabouts isn’t it
This quote is a good indicator both of the gulf between the rich and the less well off and also the lack of life experience (or indifference) that some people on this forum display.
I would like to think that this ignorance is unintentional and just a result of the small bubbles that some people live and work in.
Equally, there seems to be an element on here of certain people that think that if you can afford something nice, you shouldn't mention it in case it upsets those that can't.
It's a biking forum, not a safe space for skint folk.
To address your first point though about who can afford them - I mix with quite a few riding folk and I'm not sure about the value of the ebikes they are currently riding, but before ebikes, many of them were riding Santa Cruz - some are now on Santa Cruz ebikes. I wouldn't describe any of them as being rich, just normal working people - who knows their financial situation, maybe they can afford to buy them outright, maybe they are on finance, maybe they have little in the way of other outgoings?
Agreed no one has built an affordable helicopter yet !
😆
Not quite the same thing though. The majority of people in the UK can afford a cheap second hand bike (okay, they might not have safe storage, but you get my point). The existence of Atherton bikes doesn't have any impact on any of our abilities to either ride to the shops, or have fun on the trails. Bikes to do not become luxury goods just because there are some bikes sold at a luxury price. Unlike helicopters, which are all beyond the means of nearly all people.
This quote is a good indicator both of the gulf between the rich and the less well off and also the lack of life experience (or indifference) that some people on this forum display.
Your "holier than though" attitude is wearing, and again crap. If ppl are in an 'unfortunate' position, why the **** would they be looking at £7k ebike. Why would the cost of effectively a toy have anything to do with the poor.
given that it's already been established many times that the price is comparable to other ebikes on the market I'm not really sure why the thread has derailed to yet another rich/poor/have/have not debate rather than just discussing this new bike 🤷♂️
Agreed not everyone has access to a cheap company van / buying stuff through the business. Swings & roundabouts isn’t it
Not sure of your point there, I'm PAYE & have access to neither salary sacrifice or cheap access through any business, probably not dissimilar to may working folk.
@wheelsonfire1 cheers, your are welcome to your own opinion, but I am glad your are crawling back under your bridge
Chambord, totally agree, and I am done with it
According to my man-maths, expensive stuff doesn't actually cost more. Honestly.
So, you decide to buy an up-to-date and desirable bike (emtb, mtb, road, whatever). You would hopefully get some sort of discount (although it doesn't matter if you don't*). You enjoy the bike for a few years and sell it whilst it still has the latest standards and things. With a good advert you get back more than half of what you originally paid... so the bike only really cost half of its rrp. Easy.
*It's fine if you pay full rrp for a brand that never discounts as their second hand value will reflect that. Additionally, you may have took advantage of CtW and so the figures are even better. Or, you bought at a massive discount that wasn't well publicised.
The only time an expensive bike is really expensive is the first time you buy one.
Right... think I've convinced myself to buy an Atherton 🙂
I have an Atherton. Very happy to support a UK manufacturer that has created a bike that doesn't have a model year so should last a while whilst looking current, rides brilliantly and actually represents 'relatively' good value compared to mass produced Chinese carbon jelly moulds. I am personally very happy to see them keep on innovating and building a world class UK business that actually exports good rather than services from a country that has precious little manufacturing left.
I bought it on the CTW scheme. Don't hate the player, hate the game. The CTW scheme exists, it offered me a discount and I already pay plenty of other tax so why not?! Are Atherton wrong to offer the scheme? Are their customers wrong to make use of it? According to my moral compass, nope to both. If it puts more riders on British made bikes that perhaps might not have otherwise bought them, then no tax has been lost. And the amount of tax we are talking about is a drop in the ocean compared to some of the waste that exists in the public sector. Now there's a rabbit hole and can of worms........and none of it anything to do with the original thread which focuses on a great product where demand appears to have exceeded supply with the initial limited run already having sold out. I am a few generations away from considering an expensive e-bike. Technology is just moving too quickly. I do think that the analogue Atherton's are pretty much peak bike in terms of materials, geometry and suspension. I also think that dropping so much cash on an e-bike from any brand does not represent good value. With the 1st generation Amflow now being discounted, a gen 2 Avinox must surely be on the cards very soon as rumoured (which probably accounts for why the Atherton pictures don;t actually show the motor).
Well done to the Athertons. Keep it up!
*It's fine if you pay full rrp for a brand that never discounts as their second hand value will reflect that.
Interesting point.
Most emtb's are wort peanuts 2nd hand. I cant see the Atherton being any different.
The sheer fact its rumoured Avinox already have a version 2 motor coming out makes the value of your current bike less than 1 year old worth less 🙁 lets hope they are backwards compatible (which would bike a first for the bike industry)
Hence my tongue in cheek comment on this thread or the other. I would buy an Atherton because you know the frame would last (probably) but would the frame last the changes in technology?
This is where emtbs are silly expensive as they are obsolete so quickly
This is where emtbs are silly expensive as they are obsolete so quickly
They are and they can be, however....
I bought my first ebike 2018/19? It's still going, I went out on it this weekend, albeit I also have a newer top of the range Levo Gen 3. Upgraded weather sealing and a refresh on the motor from eBike Motor Centre and it serves as my spare/winter/really filthy conditons bike. It cost me £5.5k new - over 7 years that equates to £15/week barring upgrades. It struggled a little to keep up with my mates brand new Bosch CX powered bike uphill, but didn't do terribly.
Obsolete, maybe - served it's purpose for a not ridiculous outlay and still does what's required of it, definitely.
How long I'll keep the Levo, I don't know, but I don't feel the need to sell it at a big loss to have the latest and greatest. When the Kenevo eventually hangs it's boots up, I'll probably keep the Levo as a second bike and then get something newer.
Odd hill to die on, picking on a niche UK manufacturer of premium sports equipment to push some inverse snobbery rhetoric about wealth, success & privilege.
Other e-bikes are available. A 30 second google shows plenty of options from 33% of the cost of the Atherton for a decent FS ebike, and a load of other options at 50% of the cost, all of which would be perfectly good enough for those less wealthy, successful or privileged.
I could afford to buy one of these if I wanted, however I cannot afford to go out and buy a Ferrari 296 but I don’t walk around with a chip on my shoulder, grumbling about those who can and their ‘privilege’ 🤦♂️
I think the main thrust of my comments were intended to express not only my surprise at how quickly they sold but mostly my surprise that they are a subsidised non-essential purchase.
Tax “breaks” that, yes, some of which goes to Wales, but benefits greatly the manufacturers of the motor and electronics. The large amounts of aluminium used are not produced in the UK either so more of “taxpayers” money going abroad.
Instead of this system of subsidy surely that money could perhaps benefit a greater spread of society?
And, for those of you that think that I’m motivated by jealousy- I could afford to buy one of these bikes for cash.
We have become divided again..
We shouldn't be hating on Atherton for making an ebike, the real question is why haven't they made a gravel bike yet?
who are all these people who can afford that much money for a bicycle?
Certainly no one that I know
Apart from yourself lolz 😘
I could afford to buy one of these bikes for cash.
I've sold 3 ebikes:
Vitus E-Sommet... Thrashed for 3 years and sold for £1200 (cost about £2800 iirc)
Vitus Mach-E... commuter bike. Sold after 18 months. lost just under £600
Orbea Rise H30... bought at a discount and with interest free credit for £2800. Sold after 30 months for just under £1500.
So not huge losses on any of them. Just bought a Norco Fluid VLT (Latest Bosch SX system) reduced from £8k to £3k!?! So can't imagine I'll ever lose much on that one!
I'd want to know a little more about DJI reliability, warranty and support beyond warranty before buying. Otherwise, I'm glad that a person can choose to buy a UK built bike that has the quality and reputation of an Atherton for not much more than a Chinese brand.
Ok, there’s some holes in my argument! I’ve made myself chuckle, that’s the problem with watching Homestead Rescue at the same time..
But, the lopsided subsidy scheme is still just that.
Just to address two earlier comments:
"Technology is just moving too quickly"
"This is where emtbs are silly expensive as they are obsolete so quickly"
All I can assume is that people think that the progress in ebikes over the last decade has been like the first decade of smartphones or home computers? I'm sorry to say that it's been nothing like that. Electric motors are a very mature technology. Lithium ion batteries haven't been around anywhere near as long, but as with all battery tech over the last 150 years, only very slow progress is made because it all comes down to chemistry. Hopefully solidstate batteries will make good progress because that would be good for the world but I wouldn't worry about it making your bike "obsolete".
My ebike dates from 2018. The only thing that's somewhat dated is the geometry because it's a little shorter and steeper of head tube and slacker of seat tube than current bikes - but not by a vast amount. In terms of power, weight and battery life its only impediment is the result of buying the cheaper one with the 500Wh battery but even after 8 years of almost daily use I've not had any problems riding with other ebikers on much more modern bikes (including a DJI one a few weeks back).
My 2018 Esommet had a Shimano E8000 motor and I've just bought a bike with the Bosch gen 5 motor and I personally think that in some ways the Shimano is the better motor of the two.
