[Closed] ARRRGGGHH BLOODY Stans BLOODY rims and CHUFFING Maxxis tyres

I don't know if it's 'just' you. But it isn't me, mine are fine. I had probs with tubeless on none tubeless tyre on the back,but nothing like that.

nbt

I too have been at risk of a cardiac event. The first couple of things can help but only the last really works:

Clean inside of rim, fit tyre and then lather Fairy all around the rim/tyre interface. Pump like a lunatic.
Pump up overnight with a tube. Pop tyre off bead on one side, remove tube. Pump like a lunatic.
Give up and buy a compressor FTW.

do you use fairly liquid to help them seat ?

It will be harder to seat with a tube than without as the tube holts the tyre wherever it is whereas tubless it gets pushed out.

Clean inside of rim, fit tyre and then lather Fairy all around the rim/tyre interface. Pump like a lunatic.
Pump up overnight with a tube. Pop tyre off bead on one side, remove tube. Pump like a lunatic.
Give up and buy a compressor FTW.

He's not trying to run them tubeless

What thisisnotaspoon said. When I was running Stans with tubes, it was harder to get the tyre to seat. I reckon it worth trying a bit of soapy water around the bead just like if you were setting up tubeless

Wow spw3, you didn't even make it to the second sentence 😆 ...

It's not even like I'm running them tubeless - I'm actually using tubes

Never had a problem (Arch EX/Ardent 2.25)

As it happens, I was trying the fairy liquid method to seat them when the Big Bang happened. It wasn't working, hence reaching over 50psi. Since I'm running tubed (tried tubeless, didn't see it as that much of an advantage so tubes all round) I need to be able to get tubed tyres to seat properly

I'm very much leaning towards different rims

(btw I don't have an issue with the 2.4 Maxxis Advantage on my 26er Flows - they go on with no problems at all)

What rim tape are you using? I find they work better with just the Stans yellow stuff. Anything else seems to cause too much friction to get the bead to move across correctly.

Save yourself some hassle and run them tubeless... 😉

That's crossed my mind too - the wheels came with Hope's green fabric tape and it was in a right state when I took off the tyre. I've got a roll of blue fabric rim tape but not Stan's tape (I did but I gave it to a mate when I gave up on tubeless). Last night when I trued up the wheel I took off the Hope tape and replaced it with just some electrical tape.

I have a set of 29er flows and have run them tubed with maxxis ardent, maxxis aspen and on one smorgasbord with no issues. Didn't need a compressor or much if any over inflation to make them pop into place once I used Stan's rim tape. Standard cloth tape and they simply would not bed properly. Didn't try electrical tape but suspect that would have worked.

Maxxis tyres seem to be fine with Stan's Flows and according to the interweb with other Stan's rims as well. I couldn't get a set of Kenda SB8s on for love nor money - don't know if they would have seated but they were simply too small a diameter to get on the rim.

Oh, the green Hope tape is horrid stuff, lots of friction, even with tubes everything works better with smoother rim tape. I'd forgotten that...

maxxis work a treat on stan's rims in my experience, when schwalbe went tlr was the only time I had problems. yellow tape and lube will see you right.

[i]I'm very much leaning towards different rims[/i]

What, rims that are designed to run tubes rather than those designed for tubeless like you have?

FWIW I've two sets of Crests and have no trouble whatsoever getting any tyre to go on tubeless.

Same problem with arch ex, 40psi blew of covering the utility room second time covered the car.
Now using roval and had been using xt with no problems.

I was looking for new wheel set recently (distress purchase). Had Iron Cross rims in mind, many outlets said "no problem" even when I said I'd run them with tubes, had a lovely chat with Jon @JRA who said Stans had a tendency to be difficult to seat with tubed tyres - might be what you're finding nbt?

FWIW I went down the Archetype rims option, Maxxis tyres and had no problem, even with a quick puncture repair out in the wilds.

I had a similar experience. In the end I got fed up, sold my stans rims and bought a set of mavic rims. Couldn't be happier.

I just put about 5PSI in then where the tyre isn't seated give it a wee yank away from the rim; seats perfectly in this fasion.

As I said above I wasn't specifically looking for stan's tubeless ready rims, but most 29er wheels with hope hubs have stans rims. I don't see that tubeless ready rims should pose difficulty fitting tubed tyres per se, I think it's just the design of the crest rim

Might be time for new wheels after all. Great, *MORE* expense. I've got laods of money spare, I was wondering how to spend it all 🙁

I just put about 5PSI in then where the tyre isn't seated give it a wee yank away from the rim; seats perfectly in this fasion.

seriously, it isn't hard, yellow tape and follow the instructions and its simples with maxxis tyres.

[i]I don't see that tubeless ready rims should pose difficulty fitting tubed tyres per se, I think it's just the design of the crest rim[/i]

Sorry, didn't realise that you had engineering expertise - I bow to your greater knowledge 🙄

Not a problem I've had tbh, or at least, not specifically with Stans- I had similiar with an 819, what worked was instead of just inflating it to huge pressure, pumping it up to a sensible pressure, deflating it til it relaxed a bit then reinflating it. What I think was happening was that rather than forcing the tyre onto the bead, the extra pressure was just getting the tyre more and more stuck into the wrong place.

nbt - Member

The inner tube on one did bloody pop last night though at about 55-60psi, I neraly had a chuffing heart attack!

If the tube popped, that'd suggest some other problem?

bigjim - Member

seriously, it isn't hard, yellow tape and follow the instructions and its simples with maxxis tyres.

Yellow tape or electrical tape won't make any difference though.

My money is on the rim tape. Use the yellow Stan's stuff and your problems will go away. Running stans with tubes fine here with a variety of tyres - maxxis, schwalbe, bontrager. All 26" though.

Yellow tape or electrical tape won't make any difference though.

Oddly it does - the green Hope tape is slightly sticky ime. I had similar issues with Crest 29er rims and various cross tyres with tubes till I swapped the tape for the yellow stuff. I'd still rather run tubeless, but the tape does seem to make a difference.

No, what I mean is, he's already replaced the crap Hope tape with electric tape in one wheel and still has the problem. So changing to yellow tape from electric tape won't change anything

I'm not an engineer, I'm a computer programmer, but it would seem odd that a rim would be designed not to work with tubes? Surely that would be a minimum requirement - then making it work tubeless requires something extra in terms of build quality and design.

or maybe it is just me being bloody stupid. It wouldn't be the first time

Anyway, time to hit the classifieds and see if I can find any mavic-rimmed hope hubbed 29er wheels - or at least smoething that doesn't have crests. As above, although loads of people are fine I'm not the only person to have had the issue.

I am amazed that this forum isn't all over the new Hope rims yet. Got a pair and they are a cinch tubeless compared with Flows.

[i]I'm not an engineer, I'm a computer programmer, but it would seem odd that a rim would be designed not to work with tubes? Surely that would be a minimum requirement - then making it work tubeless requires something extra in terms of build quality and design.[/i]

Q - How many Programmers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A - None, it's a hardware job. 🙂

True, that 🙂

many years ago (almost 25 years ago - eeek!) my cousin joined the army and ended up in REME. He told us how they weren't allowed to fix anything on base as the maintenance was all contracted out so that there'd be someone contracted to look after the base in the event that the army was shipped out to fight...

Get some Exo Maxxis tyres, properly tape them up, and you'll not need any fairy liquid. Seriously, just get on the tubeless train - it's not nearly as much faff as some make out. Been running tubless on Stans Flows, Arch and Arch EX for over 5 years - no issues.

Even for a programmer...:)

I've tried tubeless - had no problems at all running 2.4 Maxxis adVantage, they too inflated perfectly first time without any sealant even - but not these.

anyway CandoDavid's offered me something, will check it out tomorrow when the beer's worn off

In my experience different combos of tyres with stans rims have all had their individual interaction with some being very easy to seat whilst others were a nightmare. I would even go so far as to say different tyres of exactly the same version of tyre varied significantly in their willingness to seat. Instead of new rims I would just buy new tyres as it will be much cheaper. Also I would second just running them tubeless. No pinch punctures in 3 years and counting!

I found 29er crests to be a bugger with all the tyres I tried but after getting advice on here using stans yellow rim strip solved the problem. All the other rim strips were too thick. When I got an Ardent on with the stans rim strip the tyre edge firmly in the middle of the wheel it set up nicely tubeless - Granted I had the benefit of a compressor. Since then the tyre seems to have stretched and I have no problem taking it on & off - same for a bonty xr4. It has been worth persevering with.

speedstar - Member

In my experience different combos of tyres with stans rims have all had their individual interaction with some being very easy to seat whilst others were a nightmare.

I'd just extend that to tubeless rims in general, I've had tyres that wouldn't go up on my 819s or rovals too.

Arch Ex with Ardent + tube - mine don't quite seat inflated at about 30 psi. Just ride them and they sort themselves out pronto. I haven't died.

I use Stans Crest rims , Stans yellow rim strip and a scoop or 2 of sealant. Maxxis tyres, blown up with co2 cartridge to get them seated, ride around a bit to get the sealant to spread then pumped up a few times over a few days with a normal hand pump to replace the c02. I've never ever had an issue/ puncture out on a ride in years.
They haven't designed the rims for tubes, they are designed for tubeless, using their sealant and rim strip but using normal tyres.
I have found Stans to be a revelation.

Aarrrggghhh. Reading and understanding FAIL.

I've tried tubeless. Twice I ripped tyres so badly they needed tubes, once the gunk had dried so I had to use a tube, and I dented one rim so badly it wouldn't hold air. Tubeless is not a magical panacaea, and I'm not really inclined to try it again until it's more reliable. I've never had any of those issues on the car, for instance...

Stans current rim designs appear to be aimed at non-tubeless ready tyres with slacker beads than many of the TLR etc tyres that most of us seem to favour these days. I returned a Crest wheel because I couldn't get a tube and Schwalbe tyre mounted for love nor money.

Ripping tyres is something that will render a tyre non-functional if it's large enough. I always carry a tube when tubeless in case of this but I don't think there is any higher a rate of tyre ripping with tubeless as opposed to tubed. Quite possibly the tyres involved were more vulnerable?

I have been running tubeless for 3 years. In that time I ripped one tyre to absolute shreds but that was because I hit a rock very hard whilst almost at 90 degrees to planet earth so I don't think even if I had been riding with tubes that anything other than what happened would have occurred. Nothing in mountain biking is a panacea but it's all too easy to label something as a problem when in reality it's just comparable to other ways of doing things. On the plus side I have not suffered a pinch puncture yet whilst my mate has had 2 on his new bike in 3 weeks of owning it!

Everything has a down side naturally and its not sensible to state otherwise.

nbt - Member

I've never had any of those issues on the car, for instance...

I expect I'd have problems with my car tyres if I was to drive it through a big rock garden at 30mph, though

I had big problems getting tyres (with tubes) on my Arch Ex wheels.

The good people here recommended purgatorys by specialized.

I got these on but they wouldn't seat properly, so this afternoon I left both tyres out in the sun, so that they were nice and warm, and then got the washing up liquid out.

With a bit of careful manipulation I now have 2 properly seated tyres. I thought the rear wasn't going on properly in a couple of spots so I pumped it up to 40 psi to push the beads out. I nipped indoors for something and the tyre seated itself while I was indoors.

Might be worth a punt with purgatorys, maybe, even if you just buy one for now. £30 gotta be better than new rims.

Got 26 FLOW on Hope hoops, running with tubes, and have had huge problems getting any of my Conti, Schwalbe, Maxxis tyres on. Similar tales of woe with biker colleagues. Lube, fairy liquid, teeth gnashing, thumb breaking, lever breaking experience. Not in a position to throw them away and get non Stans, but won't ever go for a Stans rim again.

but it would seem odd that a rim would be designed not to work with tubes?

Hey Jules, if you decide to sell the wheels, give me a shout - I might be after a pair.

My Hope hoops run on stans. I can remove and fit with one sweep of a maxxis tyre lever in seconds! NBT- sure you haven't flatted your rim at somepoint- turned the rim over itself slightly on rocks?

I dont run wire bead double ply though, only folding EXO's.

I can remove and fit tyres with my thumbs, I don't even need a lever - that's not the issue, it's getting the beads to seat when inflating that I have issue with. I accept of course that's it's entirely my fault for doing it wrong and using tubes on a tubeless only rim (althoug you can of course run a tube purely as a get-me-home fix).

I've been offered a couple of different 29er tyres to try both for fitting and for whether I like the tyres, so I'll see how they go before getting spendy on new wheels I think

I run tubes too- although I'm on 26'er so maybe different.

It's not a problem on the 26 flows - but the crests (26 and 29) can be properly stubborn

nbt - Member

I accept of course that's it's entirely my fault for doing it wrong and using tubes on a tubeless only rim,

Where did you get that from? There's no such thing as a tubeless only clincher.

[quote=Northwind dijo]Where did you get that from? There's no such thing as a tubeless only clincher.

being a bit melodramatic, perhaps 😈

but reading through this thread, all I can see is people who haven;t rea the OP and are telling me how to seat tubeless tyres, or people saying I'm wrong for using tubes on a rim designed for tubeless

In a more serious vein, this post
[quote=jameso dijo]
Stans work by having a shallower rim bed to hook dist/depth than std rims and that helps UST tyres seal. It also makes seating a normal tyre and a tube a PITA in many cases ime. The tube doesn't apply even force to the tyre there in the same way as air does in a tubeless system.

does suggest that Stans rims are primarily designed to work tubeless - not to work with tubes as a default then improved to work tubeless

Arch EX 29 with Ardent 2.25 (summer) and Beaver 2.25 (winter), both tyre types fitted with tubes and no issues whatsoever?

Only ever needed levers to get the tyres off, will go on fine just with fingers once the bead is in the center of the rim channel. The Ardents "pop" on nicely I think the Beavers didnt but I deflated them to check the bead was properly located all the way round and been using them for over 8 months without issue.

Just you.

both tyre types fitted with tubes ..... The Ardents "pop" on nicely

Stretch them out a bit with another rim and higher pressures, use some moto-x bead cream, it'll help as it's very small tolerances that make a difference.

jameso - Member

To back my point about Stans rims design and tubes, that 'pop' doesn't happen when using tubes on std Mavic rims -

It can- I've had it with at least some of my mtb rims, couldn't tell you which ones but probably the 717s or 721s. And my Open Sports definitely do it

In general it's normal for TL rims and not normal for std hook rims, based on dimensions of the TL rims, was more the point. Never had it on any std rims here that I rememeber but surely it can happen with the right tyre and rim combo, they all vary enough.

Tried getting a road tyre onto a deep rim??? Fack!!!