you knew exactly what I mean't but I'd imagine it'd make **** all difference what a V10 was like to you Stu.
Buzz - watch some WC DH footage from say, 1998ish and compare the riders styles (and track style too to be fair) to what you saw this season and hopefully you'll get the idea. (there will be plenty Eurosport footage on You tube)
the New School of younger DH rider is more flamboyant and stylish with many looking more ragged and on the edge.. Gracia and Pascal (some may say Palmer too) were among the few inspiring riders back to show similar style.
people starting to realise they don't need a big 5 or 6inch all mountain bike for the uk's singletrack.
I don't know why this keeps popping up.
What if you like to ride singletrack AND go on uplifts AND take your bike on hols to BC, alps etc?
Should we buy 2 or 3 bikes? of course not. A 5.5" or 6" bike is the perfect compromise for those who might not have the money, space or inclination to have a load of bikes. These bikes aren't too heavy, burdonsome to pedal or maintenance intensive anymore. I think we'll se more of them as they improve further.
Oh and I like peatys style, composed and efficient IMO.
but I'd imagine it'd make **** all difference what a V10 was like to you Stu.
Why's that then?
If you're trying to question my riding ability come back when you've been a member of a national squad representing your country at a few world championships. 😉
You DH boys think you're so Gnar. Take up MX or Enduros if you think you've got some skillz. 😛
simples when they stop making 26 and go fully 29er we have no choice in the matter and it is not that far away.
Having had a "snow day" this has been an interesting thread...
looks like i need to sell all my bikes!
Surly karate Monkey 29er-which i love as best fitting bike ever and most comfortable "all day" bike ever,its a great bikepacking tourer,
Slow on singletrack? er...no, never cant keep up with anyone,never last.
And i like a wee wheelie and i have to say best balance point bike i have ever owned for wheelies and manuals...
One One 456 with 5" pikes...cheap,reliable,use all the fork travel no probs and this i use instead of a full suss latest must have bike which i just cant afford...
Then the Surly Pugsley..designed in MN USA for sub zero winter riding, Yes there are states in the USA called Minnesota and Alaska where folk ride in winter often at -40C on snow and ice.i think thats winter conditions... with temperatures twice as cold as the UK.
I ride my fatbike on the beach...you may notice we have 1600 miles of coastline here in the UK, but it must be not cool as not in UK magazines...
Frankly i couldnt give a toss about what any UK magazine or forum says what bike we should ride, i bought each bike i own for where i live and the terrain, folk need to spend more time not worrying and just go ride there bikes and enjoy themselves 😮
singlespeedstu - Member
'but I'd imagine it'd make **** all difference what a V10 was like to you Stu.'
Why's that then?...
Don't worry Stu, GW has already told me I don't know what I'm talking about too. He's obviously an expert because he can criticise Steve Peat's riding for not being 'inspiring' enough, so he must be better than you too.
Shortly he'll accuse you of being in a niche...
Shortly he'll accuse you of being in a niche...
Being a British Team ISDE rider is quite a small niche to be in so i'd have a agree with him. 😆
Is that mountain biking stu? (honest question)
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Six_Days_Enduro [/url]
It's the word team championsips for Moto Enduro.
Great thread
I have to say well done Gary Fisher. He has pushed through two geometry changes. Longer top tube shorter stem and now greater fork offset on a 29er. I think thats pretty good going
Because as far as I'm aware you don't ride/race DH simple as that.Why's that then?
Yeah, from what you said about riding rock gardens, you honestly didn't seem to and on that count I'm still happy for you to prove me wrong.Don't worry Stu, GW has already told me I don't know what I'm talking about too.
comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point so I'll say it again.. [b]"least inspiring [u]from a spectators point of view"[/u][/b].He's obviously an expert because he can criticise Steve Peat's riding for not being 'inspiring' enough, so he must be better than you too.
It goes without saying that from a rider/racers point of view he's massively inspiring.. getting to the finish quickest is all that matters, style doesn't come into it.
anybody remember former WC DH champion Corrado Herrin? 😉
Shortly he'll accuse you of being in a niche...
how was the "Dahon around the 'Puffer course"?. 🙄
nothing more really needed saying after Peachos post on the last page TBH but you obviously want a pointless arguement whether you're right or wrong (s'pose that's what STWs here for, eh?)
Because as far as I'm aware you don't ride/race DH simple as that.
No i don't but I have enough experience of riding long travel bikes (MX/Enduro)to know how a good suspension system works.
And as far as i'm aware you've not ridden many if any 29ers for you to form an opinion. Doesn't seem to stop you trying though does it. 😉
Touche (only, I've actually ridden quite a few 29ers)
as for the opinion I aired, I suggest you also go back and read Peachos post.
"quite a few" 😆
but you obviously want a pointless arguement whether you're right or wrong
Seem to sum [b]yourself[/b] up quite well there. 😉
coastkid - Member...there are states in the USA called Minnesota and Alaska where folk ride in winter often at -40C ... with temperatures twice as cold as the UK.
no, just 15% less warm.
i am a pedant.
nah Stu, not really.
Thing is, I'm right and you know it 😉
Been thinking about our slow take-up on the 29er phenomenon in the UK, perhaps is partly down to our liking for big-volume tyres which means we partly get the advantages of bigger wheels anyway.
I switched from traditional XC sized tyres up to 2.35's a couple of years ago and definately felt a difference. ❓
bike packing/off road touring is becoming more popular here - which seems to be in parallel with the states.
also endurance racing, which seems to be understandably linked in, seems to be taking off point to point rather than 24 hr laps. Kielder 100 is ehat i'm talking about - the scene in the states is swelling year on year.
i have no idea whether they like it on the continent?
🙄 @ GW. 😉
Thing is, I'm right and you know it
In your own world you are yes 😆
Paceman - you obviously have not tried a big volume 29er tyre - 2.55" on a 35mm rim 🙂
Paceman - you obviously have not tried a big volume 29er tyre - 2.55" on a 35mm rim
Bet that's quick off the mark... 😉
Seriously, do you need that much rubber on a 29 inch wheel?
That's right my (rigid) 29er has way faster pickup than my 26" full susser. I remember someone trying out my bike at the surry hills (his ride was a 26" kona fs) he kept on saying "Christ it just wants to go!! It just wants to go!!"
I'm still trying to come to terms as to this niche stuff. Just to show that I have some experience with different sorts of bikes, here is a sampling of bikes I ride offroad
Pompino
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4483947595_0a5c9dd87a_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Hammerhead on Great Glen way
[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/4563349747_124c9a6578_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Scandal as raced in 'Puffers, UK Solo 24 Hr Champs, SSEC
[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3306/4573700929_e78c92400b_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Boardwalk goes anywhere
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4574919768_b08d73340f_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Beltdrive Pompino
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4576337920_70ca5f75da_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Beltdrive 69er (ridden with 26" and 29er wheels) fork allows trail to be adjusted.
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4621545242_39a078a2f0_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Folding recumbent penny farthing - pretty useless really but bags of fun
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4691098058_5ff269c98d_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Fat Scandal with experimental fork allowing geometry changes
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4907112127_5be3cb156b_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Surly 1x1 as raced in 'Puffer and SSEC
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5018204121_1cd1432d12_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Fatbike
[url= http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1232/5164161065_021ed7ac5b_z.jp g" target="_blank">
Groove
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5006/5241505666_83939b347f_z.jp g" target="_blank">
So where do I fit? I have tried most combinations you can get with a bicycle.
Awesome array of niche bikes!
I susPect you actually could claim to know some about being a generally accomplished rider.
Only problem is that you appear to have Ginger dreadlocks and beard thus confirming to singlespeeder stereotype :/
I think that collection of daft handlebars, daft wheels and daft brakes has completely written you off as someone who knows one iota about bike handling.
says the man who rides boring bikes made by dull people for plebeians and yet is the world expert on all bikes and every style of riding anyone may ever do as long as it conforms to his narrow world view. 😀
SpokesCycles - MemberI think that collection of daft handlebars, daft wheels and daft brakes has completely written you off as someone who knows one iota about bike handling.
On the contrary. Wider experience makes for being more informed.
considering the guff you have stated on this and other threads spokes that yo clealry know nothing about..............
crotchrocket - Member
...Only problem is that you appear to have Ginger dreadlocks and beard thus confirming to singlespeeder stereotype :/
Nah, that's my wee boy. He's a singlespeeder oddly enough. Has his own Pompino and a Genesis io and doesn't like 29er wheels even though he is somewhat north of 6 foot - although as you can see he seems to like 36" wheels 🙂
SpokesCycles - Member
I think that collection of daft handlebars, daft wheels and daft brakes has completely written you off as someone who knows one iota about bike handling.
It's the only way you can test the extremes - unless you're the sort of person who believes everything written in bike mags. 🙂
eg: The fork on the Scandal can have the A-C varied, this allows various headangles to be tried. The offset can also be varied.
The fork on the cruiser can have the spring replaced with a threaded rod. Winding this in or out allows the trail to be varied for experiments with trail at a constant headangle (there is a minor variation but this can be restored with spacers under the lower headset bearing.
I have done quite a wide range of tests with wheels from 26' to 29' on all these parameters.
From this I have concluded that trail is the most important factor. There are advantages to the different headangles depending on what sort of fork you run though. A tele needs rake to function properly whereas a linkage is not so affected.
I agree, I know nothing about bike handling, GW has so declared 🙂
BTW taking a 20" wheel bike round a mtb course is major fun, but not necessarily a good idea - that much I do know.
The daft brakes are not so daft when you are doing the 'Puffer solo. They went through the 'Puffer with hardly any wear, whereas trying to replace brake pads with frozen fingers at 3am costs heaps of time. Factor in the possibility of several such changes as has happened in the past...
The daft handlebars are because I still suffer some partial paralysis from an episode of GB many years ago - they're more comfortable for me.
Love the ride collection Epicyclo, not really my cup of tea but you look like you have fun on them, and full respect to anyone whose completed Strathpuffer.
Ginger dreadlocks, really? 😯
backhander - Member
Ginger dreadlocks, really?
Oddly enough no-one makes cracks about that face to face with him. 🙂
Whyever not?
6ft plus
15stone plus
Not particularly fat and a
Nice guy?
Hardly "big" and size is not a reflection of capbility in any case.
Fair enough if he's a nice guy though.
Stu, you have a Jones right?
GW, have you ridden a Jones, out of interest?
I think one thing that links people that rate teh potential of 29" wheels is they've all ridden a Jones enough to see how it can be done. They aren't the be-all+end-all, but they are enough to make you re-think how a bike can be set up.
On the DH side of things GW, i rode a 160mm-forked, short wheelbase 29er a while ago and though i'm no DH racer i don't think that excludes me from evaluating what makes a good DH trail bike and this bike was quite something. utterly bonkers in design, but it rode in the way any good DH-biased trail bike should with a lot of advantages over a 26" wheeled bike. Dunno what the point of that is apart from just trying to get across why i have the idea that wheel size is secondary to other factors.
Thomthumb you make a good point on where 29ers really fit into the MTB world imo, ultra-endurance and bike-packing is where they will be biggest. i'm not sure we'll ever buy into them as a day-ride trail bike, but if you buy a 6" FS as DH / alps riding is important yet you still want to ride trails all day, the 29er enduro/bike packer will sell to those who want to do epics as well as ride trails all day. so in that area i can see us adapting something that really is booming in the USA.
backhander - Member
Hardly "big" and size is not a reflection of capbility in any case.
Fair enough if he's a nice guy though.
Boxes, started working in security at football matches and events at 16, has sorted out numerous broken bottle and knife wielders, and in honours year of Psych. Also singer in Heavy Metal group. We're biased, we think he's nice.
Oh, and he considers anti-ginger remarks as a form of racism...
UK moving towards 29er?
USA moving towards 36er?
http://waltworks.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=50
those who want to ride 29ers ride 29ers - they might ride better - they look great
"anti-Ginger remarks a form of racism" oh I'm sure they are. But they are the ACceptable face of racism.
Beards are very 20th century tho.
2011 is all about the moustache- in any colour 😉
James = No never ridden a jones, wouldn't mind a go on one tho. I have ridden a lot of bikes tho and everything from 0-70mm fork offsets.
What the hell is a DH trailbike? whatever you've dream't up short wheelbase isn't going to do you any favours when you need stability for the DH part of your trail.
Hey guys I'm new to the forum and though I'd add to this. I'm from the east coast of the US and it would seem from my perspective that the uk is moving away from the trends in the US at least. Every LBS I go into has more 29ers than anything else, and they look they they are becoming the norm on the local trails. I personaly hate 29ers, they just don't do it for me, and last year I bought a "uk specific" hardtail and I absolutly love it. Best bike purchase to date. So if that is the direction you guys are moving in, then rock on and sign me up, cause in my opinion you guys are the only ones that are making stuff that makes any sense...and thats fine with me. 🙂
bikeryder85: welcome dude
How about starting a thread posting some pictures of your local trails?
Perhaps UK riders are more cynical of marketing so things like the 29ers in the US wont sell here as well ?
Try reading the US mountain bike mags - they are just adverts, where as ours are less so. ST is a good example, other less so, but compared to the US ones Ive read they are worlds apart.
Marketing plays a massive role in determinig the direction of the sport, if your a mtb company and want to make money in a crowded market place you just come up with a slightly different product and market the hell out of it. It page one in the book of "how to run a commercial company".
GW.
Where abouts are you?
If you live anywhere near to where I ride you're more than welcome to have a spin round on my Jones.
Trimix - Member
Perhaps UK riders are more cynical of marketing so things like the 29ers in the US wont sell here as well ?...
Maybe UK 29ers are better setup for our conditions?
My first 29er was a bit barge like, then I got a Singular which was good (still have it), and a Scandal which is also good.
Maybe 26er's are better suited to the UK conditions most weekend warriors ride in?
I am sure I read somewhere that 29er's only make sense if you're over a certain height, could it be that the US tends to have taller riders?
I think if you're riding around a trail park with armoured single track, carefully crafted berms, the odd jump, and the accent on interesting downhill bits, you'll want a bike with lots of suspension and the majority of them are 26". You're never far from anywhere, and there's plenty of other riders if you need help, so a complex bike and a macho approach to riding are more fun.
My riding is done in the Highlands, usually isolated, tracks can be anything, there's usually no-one else around, and the bike may have to be shouldered for peat bogs or lifted over fences. I have found that the lighter the bike the better, and the less bits to go wrong the better. Because I tend to be on my own a conservative attitude to riding is necessary - don't want to bring out Mountain Rescue because I've been stupid.
Thus a rigid 29er single speed works best for me. Just about unbreakable and light. I also do 24 hour solo races and again that 29er does the job, all I have to worry about is riding not maintenance.
I think the differences are small enough for most of us to deal with, plus the power of 'niche' overcomes all manner of rationality.
I still think the biggest influence over the short term is marketing and sadly that often has nothing to do with the real world we cycle in. For example just look how long its taken for us to stop riding around on frames with geometry from the early 90's - the terrain hasnt changed since the iceage, but the bikes have only changed in the last 8 years or less.
It takes ages for shite things to die and good things to shine through. Not all buyers are educated / experienced enough to make good buying decisions.
I suspect most people on the STW forum have had several bikes by now, and have probably worked out what suits them best for the conditions they ride on.
There's been a big improvement in 29ers over the last few years in the UK. On-One seems to have done most of the original thinking on this. It's wry how the rigid ss 29er now resembles the path racer of the 1890s - maybe our great great grand fathers knew a trick or two 🙂
The desire to be different will always overcome rational thinking 🙂
Trimix - Member
The desire to be different will always overcome rational thinking
I often wonder about the "niche" accusations that flow on this forum - I've always regarded it as a bit of a joke.
Maybe there are some fashionistas who do this, but they'll be off to the next new and shiny thing as soon as they are told it is fashionable - jet propelled snow boards maybe - and probably won't be around bikes for long. Probably to be found clustered in suitable fashionable locations posturing with their latest bit of designer clothing or toy rather than out riding and getting sweaty and dirty.
From what I can see on this forum many of the members have been riding a long time, and post up some epic rides. I doubt any of them would buy something unless they could see a distinct advantage to them for the sort of riding they do.
I often wonder about the "niche" accusations that flow on this forum - I've always regarded it as a bit of a joke.
I think it's safe to say that there's quite a few folks on the forum who play up the "niche" thing in a self pishtaking way. 😉
It's also safe to say that the same people have also been into the whole bike thing for quite a long time and know what they want from a bike.
I don't think there's much deliberate bike nicheness on here, just lot of experienced cyclists who want to find their own take on the sport. All these different kinds of mountain bike work.
Who wants conformity? Viva la difference.
Yes, there are some that are different and are brave enough to do so on their own in a public forum or out on the trail. Dispite the herd mentality of most people.
Thats a good thing.
Trimix - Member
...Dispite the herd mentality of most people.
I'd sooner try to herd cats than STW members 🙂
GW - "What the hell is a DH trailbike? whatever you've dream't up short wheelbase isn't going to do you any favours when you need stability for the DH part of your trail. "
i means 'a trail bike as it handles downhill' rather than a DH trailbike as a new category, i wasn't that clear i guess. as in, i know what makes a trail bike biased toward good downhill handling. there are bikes with 140mm travel (full or front) that fit that description.
and no, a short wheelbase wouldn't come into it normally, you can generalise and say long wheelbase = stable, we all know that. but as i was saying with wheel size, one variable alone does not always dictate how a bike handles, you can't judge a bike with one measurement. a 'short' wheelbase 29er could be 43" and that's enough to offer plenty of stability when other factors like a short rear and a slack front are considered. it's relative and i'm not saying it equals a V10 etc, what i mean is that it will handle well at speed downhill within the linitations of say a rgid rear or a 120mm fork etc / not be biased toward climbing at the expense of fun and downhill ability to the majority of riders.