[Closed] anyone own an orange 5 with coil shock and 36's?

I did. I would, looking back say don't bother. 160 on the front unbalanced the bike too much on anything other than trails which pointed down.

I'm not sure it needs a coil on the back either personally.

Yep, put a ccdb and Marzocchi 55 ti's on mine and I love it 😀

If you want 160 up front the Alpine works better. A 5 with 160 is too slack but the ccdb is amazing!

Way too slack with 160mm forks, rode absolutely horribly. If you run them at 140mm the axle to crown is still longer than 32 Float 140's, I could tell the difference. Not only that you are carrying around an extra pound in weight for a slight stiffness increase, which IMO, unless riding really rocky stuff you don't need.

I think you will struggle to find the need for anything more than what a 2012 RP23 can offer, it is seriously good shock.

If you think you need more bike you would be much better off with an Alpine.

I run mine with 36's set to 140 was fine 160 great down hill a bit leary the rest of the time, coil shock is lovely and plush

Yep

36/160 Talas on the front and Fox Van RC to the rear. Love it!

Agree above about the 160 to some extent. I only wind mine to full travel on fast, steep, 'jumpy' stuff. Rest of the time I have them at 130mm travel which makes the bike corner much better on 'normal' singletrack. The coil on the back makes a massive difference but only on certain stuff. On the uphill climbs I can't notice any difference between the coil and the original RP23. On singletrack, no difference again. However, point the bike down something fast and bumpy and it makes a huge difference. Bike holds the ground at the rear rather than 'skipping' meaning later braking and more feel. Landing off jumps just brings a smile to my face.

No pics but I'll see what i can do tomorrow and post some

Here's a pick of what would be a better option if you want the 160 up front

[IMG] [/IMG]

I do and really like it. I like the slack head angle and do not find it an issue as I run a lot of sag to match the ccdb. I have pics but its a minging green one ! could post them if your bothered.

yeah, all pics appreciated, lets see this so called 'minging' green.. 😛

yer considered an alpine 160, but dont really need 160mm travel at the back, i have a 180mm bike, so something a little less. i do like a slack front end, it'll be getting a lot of alpine use this summer.

The coil rear really does make a difference to the way the the five responds. It feels much more controlled and stable over jumps, downhill and on the slower, techy stuff. In addition it climbs much better under power on rough stuff due to big increase in traction.
I also love the 55 ti's as again, so much more plush and controlled compared to my floats and just eats everything up.
Of course you're altering the way the bike feels, that's the whole point and it depends on what type of riding you like doing. You're taking away a little zip and nimbleness and adding a bit of beef and surefootedness.

why tho ?....cos then youd turn the five into an Alpine...???????? 🙄

[IMG] [/IMG]

It's not really the extra travel that's the issue, I think the overal weight & balance of the bike is more important.

For example I went from my 5 to a Nomad carbon and run it at 160mm each end, but it's a whole lot more balanced & over 5lbs lighter than my 5 was. The combination of the weight & linkage makes it pedal a whole lot better so you don't notice the extra travel. Considering the 5 & Alpine weigh nearly the same, I would probably go with the Alpine if I wanted 160 on the front.

Just because you can, doesn't make 160 a good idea in the case of the 5. At over 32lbs with a coil on the back (36 Van on the front) it was a bit of a heffer.

why tho ?....cos then youd turn the five into an Alpine...????????

maybe you already have a five and don't want to spend £3000+ on a new alpine? (i.e me!) 🙂

like i said ..dont turn the five into an Alpine..... its like cross breeding. !!!! dont do it... 😕

why would i want to ? im happy with my five it does everything.... 😉

mmmm slack goodness.

so whats the weights of the alpine frame compared to a five frame then?

compare the two on the Orange website 😉 lol im not doing it for you im off out for my tea soon... 😉

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7159/6731413545_60c138f7d0.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7159/6731413545_60c138f7d0.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Seems to work for Danny MacAskill on his Five.

doesn't give any weights on the orange site...

It works out the Five AM has a 65.4 degree head angle which is ridiculously slack. I know on the Orange site it says 66 degrees but thats BS.

Take the 67 degree head angle from the Five Pro and put it in the green HA section [url= http://bikegeo.muha.cc/ ]here[/url], then change the fork axle to crown to 512 (140mm 32 Floats). Then in the red section change the A2C to 545mm (160mm Float 36's).

+ -20mm A2C = roughly 1 degree change in HA, but that calculator is spot on.

sorry, had problems posting image earlier

[img] [/img]

thats a better green 🙂

just done that and comes out @ 65.95 (close enough to 66 degrees me thinks) slaaaak! 8)

any one know weights of the frames? (5 & alpine)

just done that and comes out @ 65.95 (close enough to 66 degrees me thinks) slaaaak!

Errr, no it doesn't, 65.4 degrees.

fork height 512mm 545mm

head angle 67° 65.4°
seat angle 73° 71.5°

Double post

either way it's pretty slack!

either way it's pretty slack!

Yep, feels like the Titanic on anything that isn't pointing downwards. I disliked it so much I bought a Five Pro instead.

that green us minging (sorry) lol

I'm sat on the fence here boys !,as I'm just about to order a 5 with talas 36's !,why shouldn't I ?

Don't do it, get the 32 RLC's (and kashima RP23) instead. I guarantee you will have the Talas wound down to 130-140mm most of the time if you do.

If you think you need 160mm of travel buy an Alpine.

You will thank me for this.

Edit:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fox-van-36-160mm-on-an-orane-5

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-five-pro-or-am

I'm sure there are plenty more.

Talas? It's fantastic on my 5AM! It gives me 3 bikes on any ride. Put it down for up hill or standard ST approach steep and gnar and it's let out. It does feel 2 very different bikes and some might not like that but I adapt. Why not do the patriot? Saving my pennies for one!

I run a '08 with 36's and a Van R it slackened the 68 head out to 66 and it feels much better all round.
The coil shock means i don't need to carry out air sleeve maintenance so temperatures are controlled to avoid cavitation it's worked out far cheaper on servicing costs, and I'm not worried about the added weight, I just ride for fun.
And it's still the most fun bike to ride IMO.

If you are going to put 160 forks on the front then consider U-turn coil lyrics. I've got these on my Nomad and love their adjustability
For singletrack blasts i tend to wind the front down to about 140mm as it sharpens the handling. Wind them right down for a granny ring climb or out to 160 for those steep rocky downs. This setup is great for non lift assisted days in the Alps or riding up up the back then down Walna Scar.

I've also tried both the standard monarch air shock and the full nine yards DHX RC4 coil on the back. The DHX is definately better on high speed descents but on anything slower their isn't much in it for a rider of my limited ability

The coil shock means i don't need to carry out air sleeve maintenance so temperatures are controlled to avoid cavitation it's worked out far cheaper on servicing costs, and I'm not worried about the added weight, I just ride for fun.

I've never herd so much crap in my life.

That's probably because you don't know enough about suspension tech to appreciate the difference. I service suspension products for a living.

The air sleeve acts as an insulator keeping the temperatures higher around the shock body that houses the damper. This basically lowers the oil viscosity and it ports faster through the damper assembly promoting cavitation. The more use it gets, the hotter it gets, the more the air sleeve insulates as the friction from the seals generates more heat and it is retained in the air sleeve to further heat the damper oil in the shock body.(regular air sleeve maintenance and lubing of the seals reduces friction and temps)
Coil shocks have far more air flow over the body with no insulating sleeve to compound things.

So they run cooler for longer and don't need air sleeve servicing as they don't have air sleeves.
It ain't rocket surgery.

And CCDB shocks cycle oil into a bath that improves performance even more because the oil can settle and cool before it gets used again.

"it's worked out far cheaper on servicing costs"

Aircan service costs bugger all, so struggling to see how anything could be "far cheaper" tbh

2010 Five with old (2005) manitou swinger 4 ways and ti spring ..very good !!
my favourite set up is with u-turn lyriks, I really like slack head angles..
but pikes are perfect for the woods , if lyriks are swapped to my other bike

[img] [/img]

You can do an air can service yourself in about 10 minutes, its hardly rocket science.

Love mine for all types of riding.
36 TALAS
CCDB with ti spring (amazing believe the hype)
Reverb (hate riding without one)
Crossmax SX
Hope M4
XTR
Answer carbon bars
High Roller super tacky (only front tyre for me)Rubber Queen rear
All in weighs under 31 pounds

I know plenty about suspension thanks.

Anybody who uses 'works out cheaper' and CCDB in the sane sentence, and bothered about excessive air sleeve maintenance cleary needs to get a grip. Like I say 'what a load of crap'.

I didn't mention coil shocks don't work better than air, because they cleary do. Thats from someone who has been using a ccdb on an Orange for 12 months before Orange started spec'ing them. But the gap is closing quickly with air shocks like the kashima rp23 which has been shimmed correctly.

Oh and Rotten you need to buy some new scales as I have nearly an identical set up and it weighs 33.5lb

Oh nearly forgot to the guy who started the thread.

Awesome, awesome bike, massively capable, climbs fine, still fun on trail centres but I'd only buy it if you live somewhere rocky like the Peaks, Lakes or Scotland as it does flatten easier trails.

There is a place for a 5AM rather than an Alpine 160. They are very different bikes the alpine is a mini DH bike the AM is a hugely capable trail bike.

Bike was weighed on LBS scales, given a 5pro weighs around 28lb add 1lb each for shock, post and forks I thought 31lb would be about right.Don't care anyway, rides superb. Do it BMC09 you'll love it.

anything under 35lbs tends to get blown off course on rooty off camber corners in anything past a 10mph breeze.

I would rather be on an Alpine in all conditions over a five am. For trail riding go with a five with 140 kaskima float up front and ccdb & maxle at rear. The toughest decision is which colour to go for!

It's worked out far cheaper because I've not needed to get it serviced since it's been on the bike due to the fact it's very basic tech I reckon. I ride everything from trail centres to secret natural black graded trails and some DH tracks, so it gets a fair bit of abuse.

My air shock on my XC local/evening ride bike needed annual servicing at £100 a time over the same period. (swapped that for a HT now)
And both bikes got ridden on 2-3 hr loops every week.
So by comparison it's been far cheaper to keep the coil shock on the 5.

Rik, I didn't use the terms Cheaper and CCDB in the same sentence, or even the same post. However, you did. Not sure what you mean there fella.
My point was the heat management is better with coil shocks which offsets the oil degradation to some degree.
The insulating properties of the air sleeve and added friction from the air seals are the issues I wanted to get across. Coupled with the more compilcated internal porting to accomodate muliple platform settings. This leads to shocks that run hotter and cavitate faster, EVEN IF you carry out regular air sleeve maintenance.
The CCDB reference was due to the fact it allows for all the adjustment and gets even better results with less fade due to the way it ports the oil.
I don't do marketing BS I just cut it down to basics. Some folk don't appreciate that, but I can't do much about it. I just tell it like it is.

It's worked out far cheaper because I've not needed to get it serviced since it's been on the bike

My air shock on my XC local/evening ride bike needed annual servicing at £100 a time over the same period.

I thought you serviced suspension for a living?

Plus the CCDB service interval is the same as an RP23.

I do, but I'm mindful that people reading these threads have to pay for servicing.

The RP23 is also a high performance piece of kit. So the service intervals would be the same.(the fact it's fitted to a wide range of bikes as OEM equipment doesn't alter this)

I service my kit when it needs doing, and I service customers' kit when they request it.
I mainly service forks these days, but I trained with Mojo Race technicians a few years back. And I'm also qualfied to service Manitou, Maverick, Marzocchi, Pace, and Rockshox.

But if it ain't broke,I don't fix it. I advise the customer on what they may need, ask them what they want doing, and then deliver it.

I have a 5 with 36s up front and a CCDB out back, it's incredible. So good in fact I ditched my DH bike and my XC bike and just ride this one now. It's great up and down, whether that's in the Alps, uplift days, all day trekking, whatever.

The balance of the bike does change with 36s up front instead of 130/140mm forks but I wouldn't say it was for the worse, it's much more stable on rocky downhills, which is why you buy a 5 and stick a CCDB and 36s on it, right? 😀

Coil U-turn lyriks and CCDB with Ti here. I wanted something I could ride at Cannock/Wales and at the same time do the Mega on. Alpine160 seemed overkill for what I needed and the Five does everything I want. Run the forks at 140mm for UK riding, bump up to 160mm for severe stuff. As for the RP23 to CCDB swap, I could never get the RP set up how I wanted it. The CCDB is an awesome bit of kit and feels much better suited to the frame.

Different strokes for different folks though. I use mine for a lot of DH based jumpy stuff and I'm quite a big chap so the original forks and shock bottom'd out a lot. Doing this all day...

[IMG] [/IMG]

...ended up buggering the rear shock which then had to be replaced. I don't really do all day riding in the hills sort of stuff so weight isn't really an issue to me. I can see how it would be to some though, but the adaptability of the frame lets you run it either way. Thats why Fives are great!