[Closed] Anyone gone back to non assisted after electric?

Rode my single speed on Thursday night,my ebike this morning, and riding my full suss tomorrow. It's all good.

I’m considering selling my ebike, I haven’t used it in months.

Had an eeb for around three years now.
Still ride my other bikes.
They all have a place.

Rode my regular HT this morning, eMTB tomorrow. Was out on eroad bike twice earlier in the week. Need to get out on the regular gravel bike soon. Good to mix it up.

I ride my normal bikes as well as riding my e-bike. I think though that you have to almost treat them as two different disciplines - there are steep uphill technical sections that I’ve discovered since owning an e-bike that I would never have considered if I hadn’t had one, just because they wouldn’t be possible, even if I was as fit and strong as I was thirty years ago..
You just have to be realistic and re-define what is possible and what isn’t when you switch between the two. As long as you can do that then I think you can live with both.

Can we just call them bikes and eBikes. Stop the silly terms for bikes?

^^^ well I used the terms regular bike and ebike. Why, well an ebike is just a bike too..

I'm considering buying a trail bike like a Whyte T130 to compliment my eBike but I'm not sure how often it would get ridden so Covid tax is putting me off the idea of buying something that will only get occasional use right now. I've actually got a 2011 Spesh Camber in the garage but it's too old school short high steep for me now.

I think most people have a reason for buying an eMTB. Maybe time-poor (that'd be me), want something different, want something to help with fitness, injury recovery or so on.

Once a situation changes, people might choose a different bike and in my case it may easily not be electric. In an ideal world I would of course have one of everything 😉

Yup, sold my ebike as I just don't get on with heavy bikes. I'm sure I'll get another one at some point but not until I'm much older I think.

Over the last 2 years spent a lot more time on my non e-bikes as riding with my eldest. In fact ebike probably only got ridden a couple of times in 2019/20. He’s drifting away a bit now so finding the ebike is getting a bit more use when I go out solo. Still would not want to be without one or the other though.

As others do, i rotate between normal and ebike, biggest issue is always if i use the ebike too much and then go back, legs just struggle to cope with the climbs, you get an issue the other way as well though, where if you're used to normal bikes, you don't let the ebike do the work as much as it can.

Not really seen many do the ebike only for a while to a normal, it'll be a hell of an adjustment, not just from your energy and legs, but from riding everything differently!

Yeah sorry about the bike terms, it's just when talking about eMTB I still see them as bikes. I hate the term Acoustic, analogue etc. They're just bikes.

I have four bikes, one of them e, which I ride pretty equally. I initially treated myself to an ebike when I hit a very large birthday, thinking I could only get weaker. That's true but I still get a lot of enjoyment riding anything.

I have ridden almost exclusively winter road bike (Giant Contend AR) and eroad (Spesh Creo) through lockdown, as I live in an area with lovely quiet hilly roads but crap trails. My regular gravel bike (Fugio) has seen some reasonable use round the gravel of the local windfarm too.

I am genuinely excited at having charged up my Levo SL tonight in the hope of a Mugdock ride tomorrow now that we are allowed to travel outwith our local authority area here in central Scotland.

How different are they to ride?

Could you just hop on an eeb for the first time and have a good day riding technical trails?

I'm thinking of hiring one for a day on holiday.

“I think though that you have to almost treat them as two different disciplines”

I’ve never found that at all - but if I recall correctly you’re about 20 years older than me and I’m fairly strong when it comes to both manhandling a heavy bike and pedalling a heavy bike without the electrics turned on.

“Could you just hop on an eeb for the first time and have a good day riding technical trails?”

Absolutely. Uphill there’s an element of getting used to how the motor responds, but downhill, especially with the assistance off or low or above the 15.5mph cut-out, it’s like any MTB with similar geometry and suspension but with suspension that works better (a LOT better) and an extra dose of stability (to the point I’d say there’s an argument for riding a slightly shorter steeper bike to get the same balance of stability and agility).

Out of curiosity why’s the suspension a lot better?

Sprung versus unsprung weight ratio I would guess?

Can we just call them bikes and eBikes. Stop the silly terms for bikes?

Absolutely not! Now you've made the point I'm going to be pushing hard to get 'Huff-master' and 'Velocitron' into widespread use...

Had an ebike and normal bikes, ebike got sold.

The way I pitch it is quantity versus quality, simple as that.

Though over winter when it's sloppy and slow, sometimes it feels like a normal bike is so much work for the little return in fun stuff, wheres an ebike makes that problem go away.

On a summer ride, ebike versus normal bike, I'd get in about 1/3 more riding in the same time or take 1/3 longer on the normal bike.

I also tried the ebike group rides too, has exactly the same dynamic as an non ebike ride as in, the slower riders are still the slower riders, and the faster riders are still the faster riders, with the same level of group splitting, waiting around and faff as a normal bike ride.

I switch regularly between (because I am a lucky bugger) emtb hardtail (Cube Reaction Hybrid), carbon HT XC bike (Voodoo Bizango C) and full suss (very much upgraded Merida 127.5). Horses for courses and all great fun. I use the emtb mainly for exploring and rides with my wife on her Cube emtb. Carbon XC for big days out in the mountains and full suss for bike park/DH kind of thing. One observation: the emtb is fantastic at uphill (particularly techy) stuff and just general meandering around but as soon as you hit the downhills and want to start going very much faster than the 25kmh assist limit it feels like a fat, over weight slug. The carbon HT just takes off like a scalded cat in comparison. If I had to choose between keeping either carbon HT or the emtb it would be a very difficult choice. On balance maybe I would keep the ebike because the full suss (which I would never sell) would probably cover what I do with the XC bike (though nowhere near as well).

Interesting thread. I’d assumed that most people bought their ebikes in the last couple of years so would still be in the honeymoon period, but I see we have a couple who have gone back already.

I have noticed a bit of a change in tone on ebike threads over they past few months. It’s tended to go from “ebikes are better” to “ebikes are different” with more people willing to talk about the downsides. I guess that’s just natural as something goes from “the next big thing” to just another option. I seem to remember a similar evolution with fatbikes a few years ago. First they were better and we had people saying that in future all tyres would be fat then they went back to just being another option. I’m guessing the same will happen with ebikes. They will be the perfect bike for a small subset of mountain bikers and just another option for the rest of us.

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chiefgrooveguru
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“I think though that you have to almost treat them as two different disciplines”

I’ve never found that at all – but if I recall correctly you’re about 20 years older than me and I’m fairly strong when it comes to both manhandling a heavy bike and pedalling a heavy bike without the electrics turned on.

I meant as in I actively seek out technical climbs on an e-bike that I’ve never considered on a conventional bike because they’re just too much for the power that I’m capable of generating (and were twenty years ago too, for that matter) while trying to hold a line, feel for traction...
I’m willing to admit that at nearly seventy there’s stuff that’s beyond me if I’m relying purely on my own power, even though I don’t have a reputation of riding like an old woman.

“as soon as you hit the downhills and want to start going very much faster than the 25kmh assist limit it feels like a fat, over weight slug”

I wonder if this is something that depends on the specific bike? I know the Levo has very little motor drag and plenty of anti-squat, so it’s an efficient pedaller with the power off - over the 15.5mph limit it goes as fast as my 27.5 hardtail on the flat (slower uphill as it gets steeper, faster downhill).

Do you not notice... wait! Stop! You said eMTB hardtail. Yeah, I don’t think they’re a good idea for proper riding, you’ve got such a massive lump of unsprung weight in the motor and battery all far too rigidly connected to the ground via the rear wheel.

An electric full-sus is a very different animal, it’s got so much grip and stability but it’s also super easy to get airborne and flies so straight and true. I’m not a good jumper but I like being off the ground lots, just not too high in the air, and the Levo just swoops in 3D arcs through jumps and drops and berms and rough.

I've gone back to non-assisted after owning an ebike for three years.

I had chronic health issues which meant I was no longer able to keep up in a club I had been a member for nearly two decades. Despite contributing significantly to the club over the years in many aspects, I got a hard time from a few narrow minded big mouthed biggots. In the end I decided most of my friends has stopped riding with the club, because of these narcissists , so I didn't ride with it any longer either.

As for the bike, I had mixed feelings about ebikes. The ebike did help me in a period of poor health. I am not full recovered, but now ride and take my time a bit more. It's fun power up singletrack on an ebike, but the assistance is very on and off, and I don't like the weight in the bike. It's nice to have a light nimble bike again and feel more connected with the trail. Less sometimes can be more!

I personally prefer the challenge of climbing a hill without help! Must be wierd or something!

Use my ebike every day for taking Jnr to nursary/shops/errands.

Still use my actual bike for recreation

Don't miss the electrification. I see my ebike as a way to reduce car use without getting sweaty.mostof my recreation rides are above the 25kph cut off anyway

I think that getting the best out of them is very terrain dependant. I got mine because a lot of the stuff I ride is big climbs and more technical descents. Limiter isn’t a problem as I’m just using the assist on the climbs and the downs are tight and twisty and/or steep enough that you don’t pedal.
I can imagine if you ride a lot of rolling terrain it’s a different story running into the limiter the whole time. Modern motors have very little drag, just try turning cranks in withstand with motor off. You can’t however escape the fact that above the limiter you’re still trying to push a lot heavier bike and generally more draggy tyres. There’s also the effect of suddenly losing 250 watts which feels like hitting a wall. Can be difficult to judge jumps when you’re pedalling up to speed and suddenly hit the assistance limit.
Extra weight definitely noticeable in tight stuff. You get used to it and not such an issue on steeper stuff but flat twisties are hard work with the motor kicking in and out the whole time.
Road and gravel bikes for healthy riders I don’t understand. Make sense for less fit riders and those with injury issues, but even I ride at a pace that would mean I rarely would get any assistance.

Had an eeb

What is an eeb? Electric, electric bike? So twice the electricity?

suspension but with suspension that works better (a LOT better)

sprung to unsprung ratio

Am I missing something? Why is this different to either sticking a coulple of full water bottles on the frame, or carrying a heavy backpack, or just hitting the beer and pies for a few months.... Rider is all sprung weight and an e-bike still has the same amount of unsprung as a conventional bike (likely more if it's got a cheap heavy wheel set and DD tyres). Unsprung weight is definitely important - the suspension on the Pinion gearbox bike I had for a couple of years did work really well (the backwheel lost the mech and cassette), and the low centre of gravity/weight around the BB changes how it corners (but you can wrap lead around the BB - a'la Chris Porter to get that handling, though of course then you've got to drag it up hill too)

I've had a few rides on a Whyte E150 and, while it is fun cruising up super steep trails and getting to the top of the hill quicker, it's a bit of lump downhill. Looking forward to my Orbea Rise

I rented an ebike for the day and while going uphill it was indeed amazing, it wasn't that fun downhill. It was so sluggish and heavy, the suspension felt a little harsh and it just wasn't that great.

First time I rode my regular bike after that day it felt amazing, so much nicer on the downs.

Took my recently purchased legacy bike for a pedal today. It was meant for uplift days or flying with etc. God it was rubbish, even in the bikepark it just felt like hard work, I thought I had a puncture it was so slow to get going.
Makes me appreciate my kenevo even more, fast, planted, so much more enjoyable to ride.
I can't see me ever going back to having a non powered bike only, would be like trading the oled TV for a black and white CRT.

“ Am I missing something? Why is this different to either sticking a coulple of full water bottles on the frame, or carrying a heavy backpack, or just hitting the beer and pies for a few months…”

Yes, you are missing something. A couple of full waterbottles weighs about 4lbs. My Levo weighs about 20lbs more than my previous full-sus, 52 vs 32lbs.

The wheels, tyres, cassette, discs, calipers, fork lowers, etc add up to a lot of the weight of a full-sus bike - something like a third of the weight.

So a normal full-sus has an sprung:unsprung ratio of about 2:1 whilst an e-full-sus is about 4:1

Adding weight to the rider has very different effects - carrying 20lbs of ballast is not going to give your hands, feet or the rest of you, an easier time on rough downhills. I know the heavier my pack, the less good it feels.

daveylad, surely it was you that was slow and rubbish (no offence) not the bike..

Chiefgrooveguru... Yes hardtail so I agree you are probably right that a £5k+ full suss emtb will feel far better on the downhill than my £2k ehardtail (though it's surprisingly good on techy stuff). Can't get away from the weight though. Yes, I can see it could help with rolling over stuff and soaking up impacts etc but once you get to the point where it really can't make it up, or when you want to cash in all the gravity that you're earnt, the emtbs really are fat ducklings and become a bit of a liability. When the going gets really tough (I love big mountain riding) I can sling my carbon HT over my shoulders to carry it and barely notice the weight or ping it over roots and rocks or manual out of trouble in an instant. Lifting the emtbs over styles/gates is a right pain in the arse and something we do a lot of. I'm certainly not knocking the ebikes though, they're fantastic ploughing through snow and muddy ruts, or following your curiosity down some steep trail to find out where it goes, knowing you can always get back up without too much effort/commitment. On balance, if I had to have either an analogue (for want of a better word) mtb or emtb, it would be analogue all day long, but it's great to have both. And as a final note, my wife's Cube emtb means she now loves joining me for some pretty big days out (50 or 60km of gravelly, moorland type riding) which she would never have managed otherwise. It's a joy to have her along to share some of this stuff, so I'm definitely a fan overall.

Is £95 reasonable for a day's hire?

I was expecting more like £70.

trading the oled TV for a black and white CRT.

A better analogy would be trading your motorbike for a bicycle 😉

I absolutely wouldn’t go back. I’m into week 3 of waiting for a part for my ebike and I’m on the normal bike all the time.

I hate the fact I can’t do lunchtime power hours, or I can’t train in the week and still get to go for a decent ride.

My riding is all about the downs. So whilst I can, and do big days out, I’d rather do 2000m of climbing in half the time and ride more trails on the ebike.

I don’t deny the normal bike is better to ride, but the ebike is bloody close, and the sheer amount I can do makes it even closer.

If it wasn’t for racing, I could almost be a permi ebiker.

legacy bike

I imagine that penny farthings would be hard work in a bike park, yes.

analogue (for want of a better word)

Unassisted is a better word. Or just “bike”.

It’s funny how cars manage to have just “cars” and “electric cars” without having to pretend they’re guitars or radios.

So a normal full-sus has an sprung:unsprung ratio of about 2:1 whilst an e-full-sus is about 4:1

I mean, sure, but the rider is still the heaviest part of the system.

Take that into account and the sprung:unsprung ratio looks much less significant. Probably less than 10% difference, even for light riders.

No, nobody. Everyone who buys an ebike goes WOW, so much better than all that effort, and never revert to non electric.

I thought that was obvious.

@chiefgrooveguru has a point here-

Adding weight to the rider has very different effects – carrying 20lbs of ballast is not going to give your hands, feet or the rest of you, an easier time on rough downhills

Concede that but a heavier bike still takes it out of your upper body as you throw it about. I used to hate riding bikes with panniers vs a rucksack as you couldn't ride the bike in the same way. Now e-bikes do put (most) of the weight in the best place for it, but they're still heavy.

but surely -
blockquote>Take that into account and the sprung:unsprung ratio looks much less significant. Probably less than 10% difference, even for light riders.

My experience of the Pinion was that the impact of reducing unsprung weight (especially on the rear wheel) was far more dramatic than increasing sprung weight. A heavy bike feels stable in a straight line - ride a super light race bike and they do get bounced around - but its not all positive.