[Closed] Any reason not to replace Torx with Allen bolts?

Torx bolts are much harder to round off?

Is it not cheaper to buy a new bit for the wrench than a load of bolts? Plus then you won’t need to change every torx bolt you have...

No reason you can't, but not sure why you would...

Probably better in the long run to replace them with Phillips heads.

I'm not a fan of torx heads but apparently they are better which is why they use them. Maybe we just need to change?

Maybe replace every Allen key bolt with a hex and buy a new multi tool?

On my touring bike I replaced every Allen key bolt with a 4 or 5 (can't remember which) so I just had to carry one good quality Allen key and a smaller one for the jockey wheels and pedal adjust.

Torx bolts are much harder to round off?

This.

Probably better in the long run to replace them with Phillips heads

You want flat head for maximum damage potential

Ah yeah, I forgot about the potential physical harm you can cause when they slip and stab yourself!

Philips heads were designed to prevent over tightening, hence their tendency to round off. It depends how much torque you need for a given application. Brake rotors would suggest higher torque levels, plus torque heads will let you reliably tighten or loosen as you need to.
Torque head Allen keys cost pennies.

Probably better in the long run to replace them with Phillips heads.

Eh, naw.

Why are you not a fan of Torx OP? Far superior to hex.

Sorry, I should have put a 😉 I wouldn't change the torx.

Anyway, excuse to buy more tools 👍

Offer to swap them with one of the many torx fans on here.

I can't stand them myself and of course very few multi tools have a T25 or t30.

Only rounded out one hex bolt that I can remember on a bike.

I think it's more the case that torx were introduced for their superior factory assembly, not for us. I agree that when they're pristine they can be better, but once they've been in the world for a while that doesn't necessarily apply (as anyont that's ever changed a mondeo rear bearing has found) I'd definitely rather remove an old allen bolt than an old torx.

I can’t stand them myself and of course very few multi tools have a T25 or t30.

Really? Link me a multitool (not from lidl or road specific) that doesn't have a t25.

I can’t stand them myself

Bizarre. 😂

“I think it’s more the case that torx were introduced for their superior factory assembly, not for us.“

This!

Tbf no bolt on a bike should ever be in the same nick as a bolt on the underside of a car!.

there's a lot to be said for having nice clean tools and cleaning surfaces before you even attempt to get the tool on there.

Most damaged torx I've seen, including those on the back of MK3 Mondeo's, have been because someone didn't bother to clean it up, used a cheap tool, and broke it.

Brake rotors would suggest higher torque levels

No, brake rotor bolts are like 4Nm aren't they? That's why they are often alu.

I've never seen alu rotor bolts.

Rotor bolts are button head which means limited insertion depth, hence torx. I've previously had a very boring time removing hex rotor bolts which rounded on removal. Torque spec may be low, but they're usually installed with plenty of threadlock.

I never realised that Torx v Allen was such a polarised debate! I suppose my preference is due to being a seventies motorcyclist replacing dreadful Japanese crossheads with Allen heads. I agree Torx aren't as bad as cheese headed Phillips but in recent years I have had more trouble with Torx than anything else. I do think like some of the other posters that Torx are more for manufacturing convenience than end user maintenance.

Is torx really capable of higher torques than a hex? I'm not convinced, the lobes on the key bend long before a hex rounds off IME.

Rotor bolts are button head which means limited insertion depth, hence torx. I’ve previously had a very boring time removing hex rotor bolts which rounded on removal. Torque spec may be low, but they’re usually installed with plenty of threadlock.

+1

No, brake rotor bolts are like 4Nm aren’t they? That’s why they are often alu.

They are not alu, unless you're suicidally obsessed with weight. They are steel as standard.

Is torx really capable of higher torques than a hex? I’m not convinced, the lobes on the key bend long before a hex rounds off IME.

1. Buy decent quality Torx keys to fit a 1/4 or 3/8 drive socket set if you're doing anything that needs careful tightening.

2. Yes, they are designed to take higher torque.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

That diagram doesn't tell you the whole story, the hex key has to deform a whole lot of metal before it can round off, torx just bends the spline above the bit that's inserted and it becomes useless.

It's never the tightening that's the issue, you would need to be seriously ham fisted to round off either a hex or a torx head when it's new. It's 2 years later when the thread lock has set and the fastner's corroded into the thread that it's a problem.

Wasn't Torx originally conceived because automatic tools could pick it up? You can push a torx bit into the faster at just about any position and it will align itself.

That might be right. I'd never seen a Torx bolt until tried to work out what the weird thing was holding an original Macintosh together was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

Principles of operation

The angle between the plane of contact between tool and fastener and the circumferentially directed force is much closer to 90° in a Torx type of head (lower) than in a conventional hex head (upper).
By design, Torx head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head or slot head screws.[1] Whereas the tendency of Phillips drivers to cam out under excessive torque has been listed as a feature preventing damage to the screw-head or driver,[5] Torx heads were designed to prevent cam-out. The development of better torque-limiting automatic screwdrivers for use in factories allowed this change. Rather than rely on the tool to slip out of the screw head when a desired torque level is reached (which risks damage to the driver tip, screw head, and/or workpiece), torque-limiting driver designs achieve a desired torque consistently.
The Torx design allows for a higher torque to be exerted than a similarly sized conventional hex socket head without damaging the head and/or the tool.

I can read Wikipedia, you don't have to quote it. Although you should probably read it because it doesn't actually contradict my point.

The fact that the central part of the torx bit is much skinnier than the full sized hex key and tends to twist. It's actual a direct result of the bits of material removed to increase that angle that the problem occurs.

It doesn't talk about the maximum torque either, only it's resistance to caming out, which is also what pozi drive heads were designed to do (and thus largely replaced Philips). Philips heads were always intended to cam out so that wen something was built on a production line the tool would cam out at a relatively consistent torque. They could then be removed as you only blunted the tightening faces as long as you replaced the fasteners each time.

Wasn’t Torx originally conceived because automatic tools could pick it up?

No. It was conceived because it doesn't cam out like Phillips and has higher torque capacity than hex so you can use a smaller head on the fastener, which is an advantage. If you read the Wikipedia article, you would have picked up on that.

I was going to make some smart arse comment about Robertson drive, but actually now i think about it Robertson would be ideal (IMO)
tougher to round than hex, works better when its full of mud. Screw stays on the driver.

Robertson drive all over is the new Boost, you heard it here first.

No. It was conceived because it doesn’t cam out like Phillips and has higher torque capacity than hex so you can use a smaller head on the fastener, which is an advantage. If you read the Wikipedia article, you would have picked up on that.

And we all know Wikipedia is a reliable and comprehensive source.....

Have a look on the Camcar textron website, torx fittings list lead in chamfers as a feature, torx plus claims to engage at upto 700rpm!

And who's talking about Philips? No one with an ounce of sense has used Philips in a very long time! Philips was designed to cam out! The Japanese moved onto JIS and the rest of the world adopted pozi (neither of which will cam out).

Built a 8ftx20ft over the weekend and drove about 1000 #2 Robertson screws with my impact driver. Certainly far better than Philips/posi but the grk construction screws that I used on the structure all use torx bits.
Granted if 'amateur hour' hits you can make short life of a cheap Robertson's bit.. but that's the same issue with cheap t25 bike tools and perhaps the main issue experienced by most.
Grk are also used to carry significant load (like securing deck ledger boards, LVL/parralams etc) and self tap through upto 15" of wet lumber. All through their torx heads.

Torque head Allen keys cost pennies.

So much wrongness crammed into a single sentence. Makes we wonder if it was deliberate...