[Closed] Another carbon wheels thread

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/light-bicycle-carbon-rims ]You aren't trying[/url] if you haven't seen reviews of LB rim and derby rims break too.. as any rim will break if hit hard enough.
Got LB's on order myself.

I haven't got any of those- I'd happilly recommend Lightbicycle though, I've got 2 sets and even the weaker "old process" one has been durable. And frankly they seem to deal better with breakages than Enve.

But anyway, don't worry too much about width, it fattens the base of the tyre and changes the tread shape but the difference in total tyre width is pretty trivial, millimetres. (when you widen the rim, it's more like you're adding circumference to the tyre than radius)

Cheers chaps

Currently on Flow Ex's which are looking tatty but serve a good purpose.

http://www.nextie-bike.com/

Been running some LBs on Hope Pro2s for a while and they have been clattered quite a bit with no signs of damage. Was going to buy a second set for Abigale but was tempted by the good deal that Superstar had on the AM ones. Not got round to putting them on the bike yet but it was a lot harder to get the tyres on the rims than the same make of tyres on the LBs

when you widen the rim, it's more like you're adding circumference to the tyre than radius

Impressive to have changed circumference without changing radius. Do wider rims have a different value of Pi?

He said "it's more like" using it as a way to describe what happens to the footprint of the tyre.

But don't let that get in the way of your 'hilarious' sarcy comments.

To be fair I didn't have a clue what it was meant to describe and thought the same as ndthornton.

OK, perhaps I should have spelled that out fully rather than assuming people would join the dots. People think that adding 5mm to rim width will add 5mm to tyre width, but it's closer to adding 5mm to tyre circumference, or 1.6mm to width. (it's much more complex than that and varies depending on tyre and rim but it's a useful rough estimate)

If you break lots of stuff, then carbon rims probably arn't for you.

I don't, by default, break much - but i've been through both Enve & Derby rims.

Still remain to be convinced regarding the supposed benefits on wheels smaller than 29" too.

Quick question are the LB rims lighter than the Nextie? I have just had a wheelset built up with clincher rims from Nextie on DT 240s for the roadie and was a little disappointed to find that even with the crazily light Tune QR the wheel set is actually heavier than the Mavic Ksyruim they are replacing. The wheel set is much stiffer however.

Not seen or read a article of the 2015 Roval breaking yet, if there is please post, some good reports of testing in the USA with high praise for them, interesting what they say about going too wide, in there book over 30mm wide internally & then it gets into weight V's traction with wider tyres, I've bought a set after a mate popped some on his 650b Five & he's ragged them very hard, no issues & full of praise and he's a big bloke, also the warranty seems pretty good, low cost if it's a full re build, a full set for the cost of one Enve.
Eventually we are going to be spoilt for choice for of the shelf carbon rims as the manufactures know the biking public want them & hopefully prices will become much more reasonable.
I'm not knocking LB but can you imagine the hassle of sending a rim back to China for a warranty claim, also worth looking at is Yishun, lots of carbon goodies to drool over.

Get a set of the Light Bicycle or Superstar wheels and spend the rest on either ghettoing or buying a procore setup which should stop you from dinging the rim. Build the wheels with some slightly more compliant spokes eg Sapim cx rays and DT Swiss 240 hubs. This will keep the weight down to around 1500g, so the setup will still be fairly light with some procore tubes (even lighter if you just go with one on the back which is the rim that usually gets destroyed) and the compliant spokes should mean the spoke holes are less likely to crack.

They should then be pretty bombproof.

The LB rims are so cheap in comparison to the others that you can buy a third rim for the same price and keep it as a backup.

Quick question are the LB rims lighter than the Nextie? I have just had a wheelset built up with clincher rims from Nextie on DT 240s for the roadie and was a little disappointed to find that even with the crazily light Tune QR the wheel set is actually heavier than the Mavic Ksyruim they are replacing. The wheel set is much stiffer however.

Which rims? There are so many it's not really that clear cut.

The lightest 29er rims Nextie offer are "360+/-10g", my LB hookless XC rims were 355 and 356g, so suggests they're much the same.

On road rims LB do a [url= http://www.light-bicycle.com/wider-carbon-24mm-rim-road-bike-700c-clincher.html#.VQrG3tKsVBk ]360g 24mm deep clincher[/url], whilst Nextie don't seem to go lighter than [url= http://www.nextie-bike.com/road/23mm-clincher-wheels-700c/23mm-width-carbon-road-bike-24mm-rim-clincher-700c-basalt-braking-surface-road-triathlon-time-trial-cyclocross-nxt24c02 ]420g[/url], so yes, potentially you could have saved 120g with LB rims.

Got M70s on my Newmad, they're still the same shape after 10 months of riding as they were when new (which is handy as they will be a pita to true) and are still in one piece.

Can't say fairer than that really.

I'm not knocking LB but can you imagine the hassle of sending a rim back to China for a warranty claim, also worth looking at is Yishun, lots of carbon goodies to drool over.

You don't have to imagine it, plenty of people have done it, and it's not that much hassle, although timescales are [i]potentially [/i]longer. Roval are significantly more expensive than LB still, so it's just about how much you value that logo and dealer infrastructure. For many, it will be enough of a pull.

For me, their Control SL wheels are exactly the same weight as my LB/American Classic wheels (1370g), but mine have 32 j-bend spokes, rather than 24 and 28 SPs, the rim profile is identical, and my wheels cost £550, not £1400.

If I smash a rim I can buy some Hope Hoops to tide me over. Sod the warranty, I can order a spare pair of LB rims, and still be quids in. Yes Roval do cheaper wheels, but they're heavier.

The build quality on some alu Controle SLs I had 5 years ago was crap too - the nipples that didn't break seized, bearing life was poor. Wasn't impressed.

Got M70s on my Newmad

Is calling it a Newmad just a way of telling people you've bought the latest thing, or is it actually different somehow? Is it like appending a model year to every purchase?

Got M70s on my Newmad, they're still the same shape after 10 months of riding as they were when new (which is handy as they will be a pita to true) and are still in one piece.

Can't say fairer than that really.

I've found carbon rims a total bastard to true as well, but they don't lose it very easily at all once true.

I wouldn't spend the money on Enves though, wheels are a disposable wear item.

Hahahaha Your class njee20, each to there own but alas some take exception to what others post huh.. keep up the good work, I ride what I buy & enjoy it.

PS Not into logo's if I was I'd be importing enve's through friends in the US, to me Carbon Rovals are a sensible option in a ever increasing market, there own wheel guy (ex mavic guy) said old roval's were shite, however he seems to rate the new ones & there race team haven't had a failure last season, but he could be telling porkies.

I've found carbon rims a total bastard to true as well, but they don't lose it very easily at all once true

More that (with ENVEs) you have to take the tyre, sealant and rim strip off to get access to the spoke nipples...

z1ppy

There was a cracking write up on the web a while back, long term test Enve LB Derby etc & the basics were they're all good & getting better all the time, hookless etc, not being a xc whippet & going for all out ultimate weight reduction I just want something that spins up a bit quicker makes the bike feel a tad more enjoyable to ride, good WTB launch tother day & I think it's on here,they reckon there's a point at which they say a aluminium rim is still preferable to carbon.

just paid my RM tax and duty.. just need my frame now! (well and wheels built and some other minor bits)

...I've never heard anyone complain about their wheel being too stiff.

..just been told my frame is delayed <wanders off to cry>

Hahahaha Your class njee20, each to there own but alas some take exception to what others post huh.. keep up the good work, I ride what I buy & enjoy it.

Sorry caller, what is your point? I really don't understand what you mean.

...I've never heard anyone complain about their wheel being too stiff.

I have. On long, off camber and rooty sections the stiff wheel can make it noticably harder to hold a line. Also the same in faster rocky sections of trail.

There have also been various mutterings regarding Enve sponsored DH riders having to run low spoke tension to decrease the wheel stiffness.

Stiffer doesn't always mean better.

...I've never heard anyone complain about their wheel being too stiff.

Danny hart prefers an alu rim with a bit of give. I like my 26" LB rims but they are helluva stiff, was a surprise at first, almost feels like the trail has come alive...

Only if they're 650b Shirley?

z1ppy - Member

...I've never heard anyone complain about their wheel being too stiff.

Dirt are always making vague allusions about "ride quality" from carbon wheels but being Dirt can't actually explain what the hell they're talking about (I'm reasonably sure they think it's bad... as sure as you can be with Jones)

Me, I'm completely unfussed, I've never considered any well built wheel to not be stiff enough, and I don't find stiffer to make any difference I'm bothered about as long as it's stiff enough

Danny hart prefers an alu rim with a bit of give.

I lie I had read that but couldn't remember which DH racer had said it.. luckily I'm no DH racing god, and will have to suffer stiffer wheels.

njee20 just keep on rolling, I have no beef with you, or take exception with anyone on here, however some may need to lighten up take a chill pill & go ride there bike, grow up & learn to play nicely Ok.

just paid my RM tax and duty.. just need my frame now! (well and wheels built and some other minor bits)

...I've never heard anyone complain about their wheel being too stiff.

..just been told my frame is delayed <wanders off to cry>

Same boat 🙁 Everything apart from a seatpost and chain sitting ready to go....

Out of interest what date were you given?!

njee20 just keep on rolling, I have no beef with you, or take exception with anyone on here, however some may need to lighten up take a chill pill & go ride there bike, grow up & learn to play nicely Ok.

That's fine, I genuinely don't understand your post, so I fear any meaning was lost. I may have "beef" with you if you don't learn the difference between 'there', 'they're' and 'their' though! Not entirely sure why I may need to "lighten up".

There have also been various mutterings regarding Enve sponsored DH riders having to run low spoke tension to decrease the wheel stiffness.

Doesn't help though, and if the rim is that much stiffer you're not gonna get any meaningful difference by running slack spokes...

TD, initally was told a month sometime around the end of March. Your 24th was the 1st I'd seen an actual date given, though my LBS may have said a month around the 24th March. Just been told mid-april now...
I WANNE MY NEW BIKEY! 😥

Damn I should have bought that Yelli on the classifieds to keep me occupied & confirm my sizing (& used some of the parts).

I lie I had read that but couldn't remember which DH racer had said it.. luckily I'm no DH racing god, and will have to suffer stiffer wheels.

To be fair, whilst Danny Hart is capable of piloting a bike far quicker than you anywhere, he's also probably 2/3 your size...

The other thing is, for DH racing, an alloy rims that gives/bends easily allows the rider a higher chance of finishing the run with tyre/tube intact than a stiffer, less forgiving rim. When you're paid to ride bikes at the highest level, it's perfectly acceptable to render a £60 ally rim a write off after one 5 minute long DH run. Whilst a (much more expensive) carbon rim may survive the same run relatively unscathed, the chances of the tyre/tube/tubeless setup also surviving are much lower when used in conjunction with a stiff carbon rim.

the chances of the tyre/tube/tubeless setup also surviving are much lower when used in conjunction with a stiff carbon rim.

Why?

As in instances where you have a massive impact may irrepairably flat spot an alu rim, but would shatter a carbon one?

Is that genuinely a common occurrence?

You're talking millimetres of deflection at the rim, you're not going to "protect the tyre" because there's a minute amount more give in a rim. I reckon most of it is psychological anyway.

Someone did some study on this in fact.

njee20

On a more friendly note, I read this review & it swung it for me, crash replacement rim $125 very reasonable In my book & knowing spesh or rather Roval they won't want bad customer feed back so it'll be done sharpish, now I've just got to try & break one.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/roval-traverse-sl-fattie-wheelset-review-2015.html

The thought of that TWANG we all hear now & then on rocks is something I won't wince over at that kind of money not that I'm making light of the 1200 pounds they cost me.

Mark

Roval parts availability is often terrible tbh. Not too bad when they're a current model (though still slow) but they drop parts quickly from stock. Not to mention that it's always a magical mystery tour trying to order anything because they reuse or mix up part numbers, have conflicting information in their parts lists, and just generally aren't that fussed about helping anyone with a bike older than 10 minutes.

The biggest advantage of the standalone rims is that they're standalone rims, really.

Do they actually honour the crash replacement in the UK too? Spesh US won't give a monkeys if you smash a rim.

Don't know about the rims but they do offer a crash assisted policy on frames and were first class and very quick when we smashed two S Works carbon frames in the Alps last year. They also managed to find the Roval adaptors to convert my wheels to fit.

Why?

As in instances where you have a massive impact may irrepairably flat spot an alu rim, but would shatter a carbon one?

Is that genuinely a common occurrence?

We're not talking impacts big enough to shatter a carbon rim, that's the point. It's the same reason all the DH boys were all over the (softer) DT Swiss rims when they first came out as they were a lot more malleable than Mavic's, a DT would just bend a bit where the same impact would make a Mavic crack or would damage the tyre sidewall instead.

They're essentially viewing the rim as a very short lifed, consumable part, which if someone else is paying the bills, and it allows you to get away with more risque line choices without flatting or cracking the rim, then fair enough.

For me, riding a 29er on UK trails, I can't wait for my carbon rims to arrive. It's been a very long time since I last dinged a rim in earnest (probably the last time I did any real DH, which was 7/8 years ago), and the stiffness benefits will hopefully be immediately apparent.

Mmm, I'm struggling with that a bit. Sounds like tying and soldering spokes like off of the 90s to make a wheel stiffer. May provide a psychological advantage, but no real world difference.

I get the whole 'it only has to last 5 minutes' thing, that makes sense, but I doubt the rest of that has any real grounding in fact.

Buy Derbys or Light Bikes.

I've cracked two ENVE's recently, one 650b AM that's been warrantied and one M70 Thirty that looks like it will be a crash replacement at £450 or so. That's a pair of Derbys right there for the same cost as a crash replacement rim! Not been doing anything out of the ordinary, just riding my regular trails. The light bikes I have are still holding up strong on the same trails, make of that what you will.

mboy - Member

They're essentially viewing the rim as a very short lifed, consumable part, which if someone else is paying the bills, and it allows you to get away with more risque line choices without flatting or cracking the rim, then fair enough.

Supposedly the Syndicate ran most of their enve wheelsets for a full year- and you could tell some had a long life at least, they all looked ****ed 😆 Fresh stickers so they looked nice for photos. I don't know how many alu rims they'd have expected to use up in that time though.

Buy Derbys or Light Bikes.

same thing,

so either buy Derby's or pay less for LB

IBIS wide things, were made in connection with Derby as well, which is just LB

I've cracked two ENVE's recently, one 650b AM that's been warrantied and one M70 Thirty that looks like it will be a crash replacement at £450 or so.

and your post on Bikeradar says,

Yep not good but unlucky more than anything, rock flicked up and smacked the rim putting a hole in it.

shit happens, surely? it's not ENVE's fault a rock flicked up and smashed your rim?

still its not as sensational as saying "cracked 2 rims recently" 😉

Supposedly the Syndicate ran most of their enve wheelsets for a full year- and you could tell some had a long life at least, they all looked ****ed Fresh stickers so they looked nice for photos. I don't know how many alu rims they'd have expected to use up in that time though.

It's a great internet bullshyte story. There is a certain bike shop in the UK with an entire feature wall of wrecked Syndicate Enve rims. It didn't even take a season to fill it.

They wreck nearly as many Enve's as they did the soft DT Swiss rims they ran for years.