MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Some of the most entertaining and researched, fact based cycling journalism I've seen in a long time.
LoL that looked like a great laugh to film!
Stoped watching when I saw how little resistance was on the back wheel and virtually no fly wheel. The kinetic energy in that set up is next to nothing in comparison to a 70kg guy moving down the road at 50-60km with about 500watts going through the pedals as would be the case in the last km of a race.
Also not sure why so many people give a toss one way or the other if pros use discs. If people want to use them great, why do we want to see them in races??
You sound great fun to be around :roll:.
Couldn't be bothered watching the whole vid but did they try putting the fruit and veg through the spokes as a comparison?
That was hilarious.
Love the bloke in the background, casually holding the first aid kit.
Couldn't be bothered watching the whole vid but did they try putting the fruit and veg through the spokes as a comparison?
8:05
It's about as factual as some of the guff coming out of the owlet on at the moment, and marginally more entertaining
"don't worry you're not going to end up with a rear end full of pork" 😆
some of the guff coming out of the owlet on at the moment
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Lol! Peloton!! You've gotta love auto correct!
The kinetic energy in that set up is next to nothing in comparison to a 70kg guy moving down the road at 50-60km with about 500watts going through the pedals as would be the case in the last km of a race.
Because Kittel was definitely doing 500w while scraping along the floor on his arse.
Likewise he was definitely sat on a £50 turbo spinning 53:11.
For the record I didn't refer to any specific incident, I haven't stated a preference for discs or against I am just highlighting that the video is irrelevant to the forces involved in a pro road race crash.
If you're not a pro roadie why do you, or anyone else, give a toss if they ride them or not??
Now I want to make a spiralizer attachment for my Fargo.
There's nothing to suggest that the video is irrelevant.
The kinetic energies of different systems are:
Outdoors: 43kph 80kg total mass, KE = 5706J
Tacx resistance 3: 42.9kph KE = 984J (as an example)
So yeah, irrelevant.
Try again with the bike being ridden down the road and leaning out of car window and start holding stuff on to the rotor edge.
If you're not a pro roadie why do you, or anyone else, give a toss if they ride them or not??
I often wonder about this myself ??
I hadn't realised that the pro peloton were saying that it was upright riders riding into people on the ground that was causing the damage, assumed it was when a disc bike had also crashed and was sliding along the ground (in which case above energy figures irrelevant).
Why do people care? Same way some people care about what's going on in reality tv, because we're curious. And, I imagine, the manufacturers care a lot.
Edit. And it's more reasonable than F1 fans caring about the intricacies of car design as at least we could ride the same bike fairly easily if it took our fancy
at least we could ride the same bike fairly easily if it took our fancy.
which is great, but in the pro peloton it should be up to the riders. I know it doesn't work like that in the real world but maybe it should sometimes.
No I agree, it definitely should be up to the riders, but the question of why people are interested seems a bit bizarre, all sports fans are interested in the details, especially when technologically driven.
Edit. Actually, pragmatically, it should be up to the sponsors as they pay the wages!
Surely, the spokes represent a far greater danger!
chor-EE-tho
The kinetic energies of different systems are:Outdoors: 43kph 80kg total mass, KE = 5706J
Tacx resistance 3: 42.9kph KE = 984J (as an example)
So yeah, irrelevant.
I'm sure that it's not a perfect comparison as that would be difficult to achieve but surely the important bit is how fast the disc is rotating and how hard the object is being pushed against it . As the rider on the turbo kept pedalling then that negates the kinetic energy argument .
Much more betterer science than ever before.
I'm sure that it's not a perfect comparison as that would be difficult to achieve but surely the important bit is how fast the disc is rotating and how hard the object is being pushed against it . As the rider on the turbo kept pedalling then that negates the kinetic energy argument .
Not really, in this case the torque available at the rotors edge is determined by the limited amount generated by the rider.
Here is another way of looking at it. If you have your bike in the stand, you're checking your gear indexing, everything is good so you stop pedalling with your hand. The back wheel is spinning at 15mph but it is easy to hold your hand against the tyre tread and stop the wheel spinning.
If you were freewheeling down the road at 15mph and tried to stop by placing your hand on the tyre tread you would have a massive problem and sore hand.
As others have said the how effective the rotor cuts will depend on the pressure pushing the item onto the rotors edge, torque of the rotor spinning and the sharpness of the rotor.
The rotor may not be 'that' sharp but if the torque and pressure are high enough you will have a mess.
Re the interest in what brakes are in use, no one cares what football boots or studs are used in a game of football. My personal opinion is that people want their on prejudice on brakes vindicated by the pro peleton whether that is for or against. To trot out an old phrase 'Let those who ride decide'.
I wouldn't welcome anyone telling me what tools I could use to do my job especially when they have no personal experience of doing said job.
Also just watched Skankin's video and worth pointing out that the shoe was being put in to the rotor toe box first which is usually heavier and more reinforced than the rest of the upper.
Would be interested to see that repeated on the upper of a wafer thin shoe like the pair Owain Doull had on.
I can't help feeling that this is all a huge example of groupthink and the power of suggestion.
Totally take on board that something being shoved through spokes is going to get pulped.
I can see that a 6" spinning disk of stainless steel 12-18" from the blacktop could give a nasty tabletop saw type injury to a prone rider who was being ridden over in a peloton pileup.
What I don't see is why the non drive side of the bike is automatically more dangerous than the drive side which contains many more spinning metal wheels of death plus an impromtu chainsaw. And then there's potential crussh injuries from being ridden all over.
I suppose there's an argument for risk limitation, but it's pretty fatuous as if followed through logically would simply ban peloton riding.
Meanwhile, there are people not buying brakes that might be helpful to them in poor weather conditions because of a nonsense argument.
Re the interest in what brakes are in use, no one cares what football boots or studs are used in a game of football.
Someone should tell the boot makers that their sponsorship money paid to players to wear their boots is all going down the pan. It looks like you've been worrying about this thread for some hours now, why not go for a bicycle ride to clear your head?
why choreezo or raw chicken, when you can use human flesh
I don't recommend fingers anywhere near the disc spokes though. At least new dura ace ones are pretty much filled in discs.
Would be interested to see that repeated on the upper of a wafer thin shoe like the pair Owain Doull had on.
His left shoe. Which hit the barrier.
I wouldn't welcome anyone telling me what tools I could use to do my job especially when they have no personal experience of doing said job.
Presumably though you aren't paid explicitly to advertise said tools?
no one cares what football boots or studs are used in a game of football.
Seem to remember a debate over wether bladed studs were causing injury, some clubs banned them.
Meanwhile, there are people not buying brakes that might be helpful to them in poor weather conditions because of a nonsense argument
Who and why aren't they buying??
Someone should tell the boot makers that their sponsorship money paid to players to wear their boots is all going down the pan.
I haven't a clue what what boots any footballer uses. I couldn't even name more than about 2 or possibly 3 rider/shoe sponsor's in pro cycling. It's not really important to the enjoyment of the spectacle is it?
It looks like you've been worrying about this thread for some hours now, why not go for a bicycle ride to clear your head?
Got a two hour training session later but I am enjoying this at the moment. If you're not don't let the door hit you on the arse.
His left shoe. Which hit the barrier.
I haven't said Doull's shoe cut was or wasn't caused by the barrier. I am saying it would be interesting to see the same experiment in Skankin_giant's video repeated with the same brand of shoe. Sorry if that was too difficult for you to understand.
Presumably though you aren't paid explicitly to advertise said tools?
I don't believe that any riders are specifically paid to advertise a type of brake are they? In fact I dont think that many teams are paid to run a particular groupset. Given a load of stuff free or heavily discounted maybe. Most of the riders and sponsors seem to have gone to great lengths to state they are not forcing/being forced to choose one system over another. If someone paid me to do my job with a specific tool, no problem. If a 3rd party who has never done my job and is not paying for the privilege starts chipping in telling me how to do it they are going to get told to jog on.
I care because if people race [i]something[/i] then it will probably end up better and the knock on is I'll benefit. Having said that Road Racing is benefiting from 20 years hard work done by mountain biking of course.
Some one up there mentioned about the riders deciding what they want to use, again that's fine but Marcel and his brakes are being made a scapegoat for Owain's barrier collision and he rode the next day with rim brakes instead. There the rider doesn't get to decide because someone else has an axe to grind.
The argument that road races are different in nature to MTB/CX which is why the discs are more dangerous and responsible for a flurry of injuries has to be nonsense. I cannot believe that in 20 years of MTBing, and mass start events (Mayhem, Mountain Marathons, etc) that there hasn't been at least one incidence of speed/close bunch/crash that hasn't been similar to a road race. Yet no-one has seemingly ever been cut, and that's with sawtooth rotors too!
Whichever roadie started off the "discs cut my XYZ" meme needs a kick in the plums.
It's all rubbish, you can calculate wattage, torque, whatever all you want, but unless you calculate them for the same conditions as when the shoe 'allegedly' got sliced it's a relevant as chopping a banana on a lazy Friday. What they did in that video may perfectly match the power figures at the point of the crash for all you know.
Anyway, regardless of that disc brakes arent in reality more dangerous than say chainrings or a cassette when impacted. Your more likely to get hurt by pedals or bars.
I have already proven up thread that the video doesn't reflect the forces involved at all.
Marcel chose not to ride a disc brake bike the next day. No one forced him not too.
Like I said up near the start I'm not sure why people get so over excited about it and with that I'm out.
Except you haven't proven it. You've just quoted a few different numbers and haven't linked them to what kind of forces you would expect to see in say, an accident.
this was getting good ... and I've still got at least one packet of
choccie hobnobs to go ... 🙂
Presumably the real potential danger is not in a rotating disc even at high speed, its a hot rotating disc which has been leant on heavily for braking in the immediate seconds before the accident. A very hot disc (rotating or stationary) would surely cause more damage than just a cold rotating one?
(And for the record, I think this potential is minor and shouldn't stop the peleton from adopting them).
At least a red hot one would cauterise the wound so they could get on without waiting for the doctors car 😆
FWIW I am a fan of disc brakes and have them on both my road bikes as well as (obvs nowadays) my MTB's.
But saying that they are less dangerous than spokes or chains or sprockets misses the point - short of a major change in the way bikes are propelled these bits are essential for a bike, whereas it can easily be argued that discs are not. Simply saying that they aren't as dangerous as something else doesn't make any point; they need to be shown that they are as safe as or safer than what already exists, but in that evaluation talking into account efficacy as well.
Discs do stop people better and more reliably than rim brakes; are they more hazard than the benefit they provide? - as i said I think they are on balance more beneficial, certainly to me, and hence I have them. But I'm a 90kg biffer who likes slowing down in the wet.
I think there's an irony here. In the last decade we finally got bikes designed for our needs rather than for professional cyclists, for example more relaxed geometry, lower gearing and fixings for mudguards. Now we're seeing something often beneficial for amateurs being forced on to the peloton. If they don't want it, why use it?
If they don't want it, why use it?
Nobody's making them, they can choose to stay with rim brakes if they wish.
What the anti- brigade want to do is remove that choice, and are using (IMHO) spurious 'safety' concerns to justify it.
They should just mount the disk in the middle of the hub, between the spokes and safely out of harm's way.
There you go bike industry, no thanks necessary.
😉