[Closed] Advantages/disadvatanges of long travel Hardtail?

I had a PP Shan with 160mm lyriks and it was loads of fun, point where you want to go, release brakes, scream 'til you get to the bottom, what's not to like. 😆 It'll have a go at most things. Forks need careful set up mind, and get a bike with right geometry and it's no bother climbing either.

They're not for every-one, but then it'd would dull, wouldn't it?

I’ve got the Vitus. It’s pretty good.

It’s no more squirrely that my previous 120mm hard tail, and not much different to the full suss I had before. Slower on rough stuff obviously, but not massively when I’m on it, cornering skills and bottle are my limiting factors.

I do agree that shorter travel and slacker angles are better though, probably 130mm is better. But a good long fork will be better than a cheap divey short one anyway

Why isn't a Bird on your list?! Honestly, sometimes I despair...

The Commencal Meta HT AM was mentioned now a couple times. Excellent hardcore Enduro / AM.

If you doubt that this type of bike is the right one for you - Commencal has a blast of a full suspension trail bike:

Full suspension META TR 4.2:

https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/meta-trail-v42-origin-yellow-2017-c2x19920844

price around 2 k
Excellent balanced travel:
130 mm rear
140 mm front
Head angle 66.5 deg
front tire 2.3 inch, rear 2.25
If you are interested search for some reviews.

In my opinion - when not going for a long travel, plus tire HT:
the TR 4.2 is pretty close to the "perfect" full suspension bike when NOT doing harsh Enduro races.

130 mm rear and 140 mm front is excellent. Modern geometry. Great, great bike.... Commencal picked - for a full suspension trail bike - also pretty much the ideal tire size.
Just as an idea!
This bike is no overkill. Just a great modern well designed bike from people which really know mountain bikes and which sell them for a fair price tag.

That 4.2 is around £1800 which seems good - everything sorted bar a dropper post. Put my height in and I am bang on between sizes!!!

Talk to Commencal about the size.
If you are "between sizes" - and for modern, stretched frames like the Commencal META TR: when picking the smaller size you get a very sporty, agile bike (I would pick this).
If you are more a heavy guy enjoying "cruising" - the bigger size might be right.
Commencal will advise.
Right now, winter sale: perfect time to buy.
Quality, price, design: Commencal is top notch and their trail bikes are an blast.

Quality, price, design: Commencal is top notch

I beg to differ after an email exchange with Greg The Liar who works in their customer 'service' department. I will never, ever buy anything from them again, ever. Ever.

Yes, I wouldn't want to go down this with my 150mm hardtail:

Thats cos you don't own:

[img] [/img]

(although you may want to swap tyres!)

😉

Quality, price, design: Commencal is top notch

hmmmm, they are overly fond of internal campy style headsets and press fit bottom brackets for my taste.

Ex[alt] FTW! I loved mine. Here it is being all small and short travel and no fun...

[img] [/img]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! Must... not... search... ebay...

An alternative to Commencal META TR full suspension trail bike:

YT Jeffsy AL One 27:

https://www.yt-industries.com/uk/detail/index/sArticle/1363/sCategory/508

Bit more expensive than the Commencal. High quality parts. Excellent design.
The Jeffsy is a 150/150 full suspension trail bike.
The Commencal Meta TR with 140/130 suspension might be more fun, more balanced and the better deal.

YT is more into the "very long travel" Enduro stuff - like the CAPRA.
Personally would opt for the Commencal.

Good: FUN!
Bad: Not as fast as fullsusser with the same fork length/geo...

Current MTB is a 140mm forked 29er Hardtail (Chromag Rootdown with Pikes). I have never ridden a 27.5/650B bike but the front/rear disparity is reduced significantly on a 29er as the wheel skips over more stuff compared to a 26er.

I would defo try and ride 27.5, 27.5+, 29 and maybe even a 29+ bikes before you make your decision, even if it's just to get an idea of how the wheels feel.

Some 29ers are 27.5+ compatible so the possibility of swapping between to two is there.

"fun" and modern geometry and long travel trail hard tail:

not too many fun options around. Lets say bikes like the Crush Pro 150.

if the thinking moves into the direction of moderate full suspension trail bike - let's say with modern geometry:

many options around. The mountain bike manufacturers concentrated onto this type of bikes in recent xx years.
Means if 130/140 or 130/130 or 150/150 and "aluminium" is the goal: many, many excellent options also in the price range "below 2k".
Time right now, winter sales: there are many very good deals out there.
You will find a bike which you will enjoy for the next 5 - 10 years!

I beg to differ after an email exchange with Greg The Liar who works in their customer 'service' department. I will never, ever buy anything from them again, ever. Ever.

Yeah, Commencal are a shower of the proverbial - I will never buy another one having been thoroughly dicked about after cracking one of the under-sized hardtails.

Long travle hardtail are great if you want a long travel hardtail, currently have a Scout with 160mm Pikes - the plan was to drop to 140mm but with the controls slammed the thing is a holigan.

There's a chicken and egg thing here, if you're making a slack "progressive" hardcore bike, you tend to make it longer travel. So if you want a hardcore hardtail sort of thing you tend to end up looking at long travel, just because that's what's out there. But the fork travel isn't really the important bit imo, it's the overall package- I put a 130mm fork in my Soul for the geometry not the travel (when it was rigid it had a 29er fork in it, to give it a suspension-corrected equivalent of a 130mm fork) My Ragley was built for 140mm and worked a charm but if it'd transferred the same geometry into a 120mm or even 100mm package I'd have ridden the same stuff on it.

Fun is a really unhelpful word, some people pay dominatrixes to step on their balls for fun. Some people play bridge.

Glad I saw this thread. In future while grinning from ear to ear after throwing my 100mm xc hardtail with 2.2" tyres down yet another rocky jumpy or steep descent I will be careful not to think I'm having fun.

The crush is simply a hardcore hardtail but the P7 is better ..

The Whyte 905 with boost and 2.8 tyres sould be given a good look over too long and slack plus the larger 2.8s on the rear give a little back in terms of rear bounce and with Maxxis doing 2.8 minion dhfs no worries about the grip levels , perhaps a p7 with plus wheels and 140 forks would be a good idea ?

You're very brave, sideshow. #prayforsideshow #thoughtsandprayers 😉

It touches me in a special way to know your thoughts and prayers are with me... hold on a sec, that might be bruising from the top tube.

😆

I need to not rush! I do hate being bikeless, but then again, I would rather make the right choice as its a bike I want to keep for a few years.

I'm going to be selling my recently acquired old shape BFe 275 frame (small, 142x12 rear, 44mm headtube) if you're interested...

I need to not rush! I do hate being bikeless, but then again, I would rather make the right choice as its a bike I want to keep for a few years.

Seeing as you're bikeless, I'd make a quick decision. Fitness, strength and skills trump anything about the bike when it comes to having fun and they're only getting worse whilst you're not pedalling!

I don't think anyone could accuse you of rushing your decision.

I've got a 2016 Hornet, size large i'm 6'2"
160mm fox 34's on 26" wheels

I find it ok on jump trails but boring as sh!t on normal trails, hardly feels like it wants to pop and not very playful.

Is it just me?

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[img] [/img]

Nope.

I have a Hornet 4X. it's the exact opposite.

gwurk - Member
Nope.

I have a Hornet 4X. it's the exact opposite.

Hmm, Can you get the seat post length to pedal it?

I have a 160mm Saracen Ariel so I can go on pedally rides on that worst case

Love my P7 with 140mm Pikes. It's never out of its depth at the front end, and that's riding rocky natural Pennine trails and steep and cheeky Hebden tech. Great fun. I had a 160mm SubZero which was also good, but that could be a bit of a see-saw when the going got really choppy. Mind you, forks and damping have improved loads since then. For me, 140mm is the sweet spot for a fun, capable and versatile hardtail that also climbs, maybe 150mm max.

Hmm, Can you get the seat post length to pedal it?

chakaping - Member
I don't think anyone could accuse you of rushing your decision.

Sorry but I did 😆

wl - Member

For me, 140mm is the sweet spot for a fun, capable and versatile hardtail that also climbs, maybe 150mm max.

120mm was always people's sweet spot in the past - I think modern forks like Pikes, etc are better at providing support and not diving, and most bikes are on bigger wheels now too, 27.5 or 29. 140mm on my Last is spot on, IMO

gwurk - Member
Hmm, Can you get the seat post length to pedal it?
Yes. But with a 450mm seatpost. although I haven't ridden it any way other than completely slammed (shorter seatpost) since before the summer.
I'm only 5'11" (33" inseam) though.
I don't also mind riding a bike stood up everywhere.

That would be quite some post!

I guess a dropper with some extension could work.

How do you find the reach?

120mm was always people's sweet spot in the past -

🙄

"Hardcore hardtail" originally meant something short travel with BMXesque parts you rode everywhere, hit proper dirtjumps on and weren't afraid to use at a skatepark. It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

Reach is perfect. when standing (which is all that matters)
it's longer than my BMX, shorter than my 170mm travel mtb

longer reach would be stupid on a bike you want to ride like this. If you're used to a longer bike while climbing seated. just bend yer elbows. 😉

I also have a 250mm drop dropper post on order.

It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

Hello! You called? 😉

lol point taken!

250mm dropper!!

The crush is simply a hardcore hardtail but the P7 is better ..

OP, taken a look at the chameleon? yeah, i've got one. 😉
120mm yari up front, coming from a 2013 chameleon ( 26" ) with 150mm up front. running 27.5+ at the moment, 29er curious. the chameleon can switch with a change of dropouts.
it isn't the travel, it's the angles. you ride a hardtail like a pogo stick anyway, the back will follow eventually.
i don't miss the travel, though arguably the tyres are giving me some of that back.

It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

Lol! I resemble that remark!

gwurk - Member

120mm was always people's sweet spot in the past -
...and before that it was 80-100mm

"Hardcore hardtail" originally meant something short travel with BMXesque parts you rode everywhere, hit proper dirtjumps on and weren't afraid to use at a skatepark. It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

gwurk - Member

all the flamboyance of a duck.

[img] [/img]

Whoa. That's one flamboyant-ass duck.

"Hardcore hardtail" originally meant...blah blah blah

oh noes, people have a different idea of fun to you, how will you cope?

Woooah there... nick

[img] [/img]

I’ve been riding a Shan for about a year now, with 160mm Pikes. It climbs as well or better than any other bike I’ve owned, which was a surprise to be honest. No wandering front end. And obviously a total hoot on the way down. Also perfect for just pottering about. It’s absolutely magic.

gwurk - Member

"Hardcore hardtail" originally meant something short travel with BMXesque parts you rode everywhere, hit proper dirtjumps on and weren't afraid to use at a skatepark. It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

They're probably discussing that on the hardcore hardtail thread, while we talk abot long travel hardtails over here