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All my previous HT bikes have been 120mm, my FS also 120mm, but now looking at HT options, what are the advatages and disadvantages of a longer travel HT bikes?
The Crush Pro was top of my list, but at 150mm of travel, its quite a step up from 120mm. The Vitus Sentier was going really cheap - but now only a medium left, and that is 140mm.
So just wondering what advantages a longer travel HT has compared to its 120/120mm rivals?
Good - it's more fun.
Bad - the front end is higher, possibility of bashing the rear wheel more (although you do get some suspension effect on the back wheel from the forks).
Back in the day, a 100mm HT was considered a bit crazy.
You go faster....your back wheel takes a beating.
The change in geometry under full compression can be a little jarring.
I had a 140mm Ti 456 - it was a great bike but not really great for where I am (think South Downs) - didn't really need that travle and it got a bit wandery on the steep grassy climbs. Was fun on trips to Wales / Dartmoor though - it was just 'one louder' without lugging the weight of a full suss about.
TL;DR - liked it, but no real advantage for me in normal use.
I am on the South Downs also - I chucked a leg over one and rode it around the pavements - but you don't really get an idea of what it would be like in real world riding!
Your arms will take less of a beating but in reality you probably won't actually go any faster. The rear wheel may still take more of a beating though as the bike won't pump/pop as nicely or require quite the same imput to ride. This can cause riders to get lazy lifting/placing the rear wheel. infact you see a lot of long travel hardtail riders actually sat down descending. Whether they always did that or not I don't know.
I have a 130mm 29er HT, wouldn't really want much more than that. I read a review of a long travel ht once (cant remember what it was) that said "the front writes cheques the rear cant cash"
FTW I really like mine though and it's super fun and made me a better rider after spending all winter on it then swapping back to my full sus once the trails dried out.
I think they hit a limit at about 120-140mm, beyond that the change in geometry and lack of rear suspension negate any benefit that more travel has.
Benefit over shorter travel - you go faster, most components get stiffer to compliment the forks. It's lighter than a FS bike.
Downsides over FS - it's still slower.
I used to enjoy riding my HT a lot more than my FS. Maybe its because I have the wrong FS (although it should be perfect for the South Downs), but I covered so many more miles on my old Saracen Mantra and want that fun 'want to ride' feeling back, so maybe I will avoid the longer travel bikes!
I mostly rode my BFe at around 130mm, it worked with 160 for DH races but 130 was much nicer for general potterage. I wasn't that much slower on it than a Rocket, but that probably says more about where I was riding (twiddly reds at Hamsters and Choppers) and/or my inability to ride FS bikes than owt else!
edit- the BFe would blat down anything I could point the Rocket down. I love hardtails, me.
I was reading a review on MBR of the 2017 Whyte T130 and they were saying how it gets beaten by the Crush Pro, but ones 130 and one is 150?! Surely in slightly different categories?
I like them - 140mm seemed to work pretty well on my Switchbacks. It's not too much travel to get you in situations where the front end is getting carrid away. Climbing wasn't too bad.
Saying that, two of my favourite hardtails had 150mm travel - an original Orange Crush and a Slackline. Both worked for what I used them for (mucking about basically).
I think it depends on the bike though - my BFe felt better with shorter forks whereas my Slackline felt better with longer forks.
Don't stress about it, if you can't demo them - just buy the one you like the best.
140 or 150mm works fine on smaller wheeled HTs and 120mm is plenty on 29in ones IME.
One day I'll get around to chucking my 180mm forks on my old 26er HT. Until then I'll say that 140mm 29ers ride nicely down hills.
Actually, if they're comparable on price just get the Orange - it'll hold it's value best and probably has the best geometry.
They are around the same price at £1350.
Never understood the logic behind this way of thinking.hold it's value best
If you're thinking about resale value before you've even ridden the bike it's obviously not the right bike for you.
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I've spent quite a lot of time on long forked hardtails. Current one is 150mm (it's been 140 and 130mm too). Previous one was 140 and 100mm (only 100 for a few months). I think they're a lot of fun. About half of my regular riding buddies ride them in the winter and/or on our more local trails - various Birds, Stantons, Production Privees, Cotics, Orange, Dartmoors. Lots of 140, 150 and even 160mm Pikes.
I was sceptical about the longer end of the travel spectrum, hence this bike started at 130. But in practice, with the right fork set up, I'm liking 150mm more than any of the shorter ones. But with the long forks, too soft and they're horrible; too hard and they're pointless.
If you're thinking about resale value before you've even ridden the bike it's obviously not the right bike for you.
He's buying a bike without riding it first, so I'm just being pragmatic - if you think about it properly.
About half of my regular riding buddies ride them in the winter and/or on our more local trails - various Birds, Stantons, Production Privees, Cotics, Orange, Dartmoors. Lots of 140, 150 and even 160mm Pikes.
For clarity they're mostly used for ragging around the woods - singletrack, short DH runs, jumps, drops etc. Plus a bit of XC riding. Those of us who do more XC riding tend to have 100-120mm or rigid 29er hardtails.
I personally would say 120mm isthe sweet spot for a trail hardtail although tried 140mm on a Surly once which was errrrm interesting.
There aren't any advantages to a long forked hardtail, apart from there're no rear bearings/bushings to wear out.
For ALL types of riding, a full suspension or a short forked hardtail are better.
They really are shit 😉
There are no disadvantages to my 150mm Shan. It really does do everything and it's the bike I always choose at the moment.
Looking to fit 160mm Pikes at some point.
Love a 160 Yari on my stantons. It feels right. Unlike on a previous older Bfe I've had.
I have a 120/110mm 29" fs and a p7 so similar to the Crush. Go for it, compared to my old 120mm 26" ht there are no downsides. It's not too much travel unless you're a arse up, head down XC'er.
Dialled alpine with u-turn lyriks - brilliant.
I have a C456 with 160mm Mattocs. I didn't particularly want forks that long but I bought them off a friend second hand to replace some very tired Fox 140mm forks.
I have had several rides now and wasn't sure at first. Lots of tweaking pressures and rebound/damping and I feel I've got them about right. The bike feels good, especially down hill, but as others have said, the front gets light on steep climbs. Provides a nice alternative to my 130/120 mm full sus.
There's a pretty big difference between older long fork hardtails (like the original BFe) which weren't that slack up front but had slack seat angles, short reaches and high BBs and the newer ones whose sagged geometry is much more like modern 5-6" trail bikes (so they climb and corner well). My Zero AM climbs incredibly well with a 150mm fork.
I've got a "pig iron" on one 456 with a set of 140mm Fox Vanillas on it.
It's heavy, it's too much bike for XC rides in Southern England. It's bloody brilliant except the 'male chicken' in a sock seat post/tube that has been a source of irritation for the eight years I've had it.
It is not a good climber but show it some flat single-track or point it downhill and ride the fork and it all makes a fair bit of sense and big grins.
It was my only serious bike for six years and it was great fun.
Having said that, it's main use now is riding with my kids or when the weather is / trails are atrocious. My 120mm FS is more capable most of the time and less abusive on my body!
I wouldn't go over 120mm. I think BTR have the right idea with their 'short' travel hardtails.
Going down slow steep bits with a long travel fork can be quite terrifying.
Going down slow steep bits with a long travel fork can be quite terrifying.
Not my experience, on a hardtail with a 140mm fork.
If you have nice mountain bike trails around and if your focus is "trail-fun" and not "race":
hardtail:
pick a 27.5 inch PLUS tire (something like 2.8 inch tires) bike with modern geometry and LOTS of fork travel. Minimum 130 mm. Great: 140 mm (but not above 150 mm)
Forget the old style XC 100 mm or 120 mm hardtail with 2.2 inch tires. They are NO fun. If you ride the forks with some "sag" - they bottom out when pushing only a bit harder in the trail!
full suspension:
a well balanced full suspension trail bike doesn't really need so much travel (riding same trail with same speed as above mentioned hardtail).
Front and back 130 mm is perfect in the trail and perfect for climbing. Tires with 2.3 or max 2.4 inch will be great.
(fork: don't go above 140 mm !)
Also here: look for a modern bike design. "Stretched" frame 65 ... 66 deg head angle... and so on.
Fun factor and speed when comparing above two bikes:
up to the rider. In some trails the hardtail might beat the full suspension. Riding hardtail means you need to concentrate all the time. But great fun. 27.5 inch PLUS tires are making hardtails more attractive again.
When having a rear suspension you don't need these fat tires.
Price tag for above bikes: the PLUS hardtail might be a bit cheaper than the full suspension but it's more simple to set up and more rugged.
I've got a Chromag Wideangle with 160mm forks. It's an absolute riot! I love the thing. Ride some pretty damn steep trails and never really felt worried. I'd suggest the geomtry has more to do with how the bike rides than the fork travel.
Sounds absolutely right!
Example for PLUS hardtail, frame for forks 130-150 mm:
NS ECCENTRIC DJAMBO
http://www.ns-bikes.com/eccentric-djambo,96,pl.html
The Djambo is a bit of an exotic animal - great, great fun also:
Merida Big Trail
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/merida-big-trail-review-2016.html
Cheapest version "Merida Big Trail 600", 130 mm fork available in winter sale for less than 1 k
More PLUS hardtails to come soon I guess.
Yes - as long as the geometry is right and the fork is up to the job there are barely limits for a hardtail...
Example for crazy downhill fun hardtail:
The famous Dartmoor Hornet:
http://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/enduro-trail/hornet-0
150 mm travel fork. Head angle is 65 deg.
Some bolt a 180 mm DUROLUX fork onto the Hornet.
But: this is a real niche product for crazy jumps and really for downhill (also called "Enduro").
But: XC short travel hardtail with "old geometry" is a fun-killer!
But: XC short travel hardtail with "old geometry" is a fun-killer!
One person's fun isn't always anothers. It depends on how you ride and what you enjoy so can't say I'd agree with being that so clear cut.
O.k.. Sorry. You are right.
My brother has a crush and he loves it around Peaslake / Leith Hill, he seems quick enough up and down, expensive for what it is though...................(Bird have what you want) maybe?
🙂 🙂 🙂
Going down slow steep bits with a long travel fork can be quite terrifying.
Yes, I wouldn't want to go down this with my 150mm hardtail:
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But that's nothing to do with the fork! 😉
A well set up 150 or even 160mm hardtail is fine on really steep stuff. If it's plunging through the travel, then yes, I see the problem. But if shouldn't be.
Forget the old style XC 100 mm or 120 mm hardtail with 2.2 inch tires. They are NO fun.
Hahahahaha
You might want to look at the geometry, travel and tyre wdths of every slopestyle/Jump hardtail out there.
Other than an inch shorter stays they're all really close to a 14" XC frame.
(longer stays only make it more stable and slightly more effort to spin/manual)
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Personally. I find long bikes No fun.
Main questions was about the Crush Pro 150 mm travel hardtail.
So yes - this is an excellent Enduro bike.
If you like to move on from XC to Enduro this bike is excellent.
Plus tires (2.6 inch?), excellent fork, 65 deg head angle and "stretched frame"...
For Enduro type mountain biking: great!
If the pump track or slope style riding is the goal the Crush Pro 150 might be - indeed - no fun and not the right pick. No question there...
But who would like to pick the Crush Pro 150 for this type of biking?
Some more neat bikes:
Enduro / AM hardtail with 160 mm (!!!) fork:
https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/meta-ht-am-race-650b-metallic-black-2017-c2x19265787
Sporty bike. Designed for speed. 65.5 deg head angle, 2.4 inch tires.
In "winter sale" for 1600 Euros
Other versions of this Commencal HT AM bike - also with 160 mm fork - down to around 1 k right now. Which is - for such a fantastic design - an extremely good price tag.
No idea how this bike pedals uphill. 160 mm fork travel is maybe already a bit extreme for an AM bike?
Crush Pro 150 and Commencal AM HT both for technical skilled riders and harsh Enduro races. Sporty and fast.
Bikes like the Merida BIG TRAIL (130 mm fork) are more playful, fun bikes for "entry level" bikers which like the PLUS tires (2.8 inch) and like the modern mtb geometry.
Dartmoor Hornet: pure downhill bike. Extreme hardtail. Heavy. Nothing to pedal uphill. Excellent price tag. Fits forks up to 180 mm travel?
beautiful, modern, hardtails, NUKEPROOF:
130 mm and 140 mm travel versions
Nukeproof 275 / 27.5 , 2.6 inch tires, 140 mm fork:
http://nukeproof.com/products/scout-275-comp/
head angle 65 deg !
Nukeproof 290 / 29 inch , 2.3 inch tires, 130 mm fork:
http://nukeproof.com/products/scout-290-comp/
head angle also 65 deg !!!
These bikes aren't for people which like the old fashioned XC, short travel and short frame stuff.
In my opinion so: the 27.5 inch bike with 140 mm fork is a blast!
Not cheap so.
More for "trail" riding.
Downside, in the shops here around: sold out!
I have recently bought the new 2018 Commencal Meta HT AM, and love it. 2.8" tires work well for me with both grip and smoothness good. 160mm fork at 65degrees but climbs wells well with steep seat tube angle.
[url= https://news.commencal.com/news/New-META-HT-AM/183.html ]Commencal Meta HT AM 2018[/url]
META HT AM ORIGIN
EUROPE: 1.099 €
USA: USD 1,099
CANADA: CAD 1,499
AUSTRALIA: AUD 1,599
NEW ZEALAND: NZD 1,799
META HT AM ESSENTIAL
EUROPE: 1.599 €
USA: USD 1,599
CANADA: CAD 2,149
AUSTRALIA: AUD 2,299
NEW ZEALAND: NZD 2,599
The Crush Pro seems to get decent reviews as an all rounder regardless of its travel but having read everyone’s opinions as much as I love the look of it, it’s probably not the right choice!
I put 160mm Yari forks on my Mondraker Vantage hardtail and it was fantastic! As a trail bike it was really good, much better than when it had 140mm on it. Climbed really well and was just "fun".
I sold it because it was a little harsh at the back and have now got a Scott Scale 650+ bike with 120mm - to be honest I have a bit of "buyers remorse" and wish I hadn't have been so hasty in selling the Mondraker!