Hi!
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Just back from a ride and had a question about access rights (in Scotland). Checked the access rights material online but couldn't find a clear answer.
First time doing a new ride, and I am currently sans car. Wanted to ride to the trial head at Thornilee from Galashiels avoiding the main road. Planned my trip and there was one field crossing involved, and my OS map was showing an old land rover track across the field. Got to Thornilee no issue, rode for a couple of hours and headed back.
On the way back over the field a farmer called me over. He insisted there was no cycle path on the field and I was breaking the law. I explained my situation to him and fair enough he let me go on and agreed that the main road is pretty dangerous.
There was live stock in the field, sheep, and i slowed down when I met it in order to let it run away.
Obviously I feel i have a right to cross the field, since there is a very obvious land rover track. However, I also don't want to be a dick and annoy landowners.
What are other people's input to the situation and what do they think I should do if using this route in the future.
(Note : there is an alternative route that uses a minimal amount of the main road... But, that road really scares me + annoys drivers)
I don't know the proper answer to your question but is the land rover track shown on the definitive map* as well as the OS one? If it is I would have thought you would have a case for using it.
OS maps have been known to be wrong regarding the location of tracks though.
*I'm assuming that Scotland has a definitive map like other parts of the UK.
Sounds like the both of you were reasonable about it and you were also considerate to livestock etc.
I'm sure people walk through the field so you're only doing the same. As long as you're not a d1ck, which it sounds like you're not, you'll be fine.
There might not be a cycle track, but you are free to roam (including with a bike) across the whole of Scotland, with some minor exceptions (land set aside for particular things, e.g. golf courses, and people's gardens etc.).
Farmland isn't one of them, as long as you are responsible. Dogs, particularly at this time of year, have to be well controlled in order to abide by the "responsible access" part of things, but if there's a track you can follow, fill your boots.
Some farmers/landowners don't like it, but they can **** off.
I'm not sure you were doing anything illegal, but if it was a fenced off field with livestock I think that is starting to get very close to the line w.r.t. 'right to roam' etc.
edit:
Some farmers/landowners don't like it, but they can **** off.
That attitude helps no-one 🙄
Sheep might have been lambing* etc which is a very dodgy time to be scaring them, and as they are such stupid animals it is extremely easy to scare them 🙄
* or something, I'm not a farmer obviously
On the way back over the field a farmer called me over. He insisted there was no cycle path on the field and I was breaking the law.
He'd be wrong
[url= http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/Practical-guide/public/Fields-with-farm-animals ]Scottish Access Code[/url]
You are allowed to cross a field so long as you do so in a sensible manner.
The guiding principle of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code is that it contains responsibilities as well as rights.
You had the right to cross the field and also the responsibility to do so in a way that minimised disruption to anyone using the land
I'd say riding slowly near the animals and crossing the field via the most direct route is acting responsibly
Cheers for the answers guys!
I've been doing things similar to this for years and have never been called out/felt I was in the wrong. I think having someone confront me about it made me reflect on the whole situation, which is probably needed now and then.
Thanks again for putting my mind at ease a little
You mentioned sheep, were they with lambs? This time of year the farmer could have reasonable concerns about that, though they'd usually tell you if that were the case.
Good point Northwind.
There were sheep but no lambs. However, I'm unsure if they were expecting lambs. I think as long as I am cautious around them though that should not be an issue (especially since the weather fair just now)
*I'm assuming that Scotland has a definitive map like other parts of the UK.
It doesn't really. There are "rights of way" in Scotland, but councils are not required to record them. Some rights of way have been recorded by Scotways, so you could ask them. https://www.scotways.com/
Also worth checking if the council have designated it as a "core path".
Though as above, you have a general right of (responsible) access anyway, even if its not a right of way/core path.
Yeah the key is reasonable, responsible access - sheep are most likely to either be in lamb at the moment, or carrying lambs, when they are very vulnerable to being frightened and losing their lambs, which nobody wants. I would definitely not go anywhere near any sheep at this time of year and farmers will be jumpy as anything at the moment. Even if you skirt carefully round the edge of livestock field it can still cause a panic and stampede in sheep or cattle.
Some farmers/landowners don't like it, but they can **** off.
🙄
As above, normally no issues, but now the sheep are either about to drop or just have, so a wide berth must be observed.
Remember the farmer may have had a bad few days with some losses so his reaction may be understandable.
I would maybe challenge him outwith Spring, but around this period I would just stay away from fields with sheep.
Edit - grew up amongst farms and bottle fed lambs every year when I was wee 😀
It's not a surprise that the farmer is unaware of the laws, many folk aren't.
But, a better way to Thornielee from Gala is IME to climb up to Torwoodlee and get onto the farm lane that finishes at the top of Clovenfords. Then back road it to Thornielee but when you see the mast on the right take this lane. It eventually leads you to Thornielee - quite obvious as open moor.
You can also ride to Yair totally offroad (and then onto Inners etc).
Thornielee was running well today, we started at 4pm and had a brill ride 🙂
Hi b r,
I think that's where I was, it's marked as 'Cauld Face' on the map. There was a flock of sheep on the moor.
Aye Thornielee was nice and dry today!
Been doing the trip to yair a couple of times a week for the last few months and fancied a change 🙂