[Closed] A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

Well I've learnt one thing. Always ask for some STW feedback on a MTB outfit before booking. I'll be giving SC a miss ta.

Well I've learnt one thing. Always ask for some STW feedback on a MTB outfit before booking. I'll be giving SC a miss ta.

if you had googled them last week though, STW has this on googles front page

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sierra-cycling-spain-any-experience

not detailed but not negative...

SC have lost some good staff and hired a disinterested nobber to take their place.

Seems, generally they are ok but now have one guide that most find a **** and have handled this particular week of problems very badly.

I've been with them a couple of times, one guide a dick but took me on good rides, the other a nice guy. It's all about the guide really.

blimey, that all took some reading.:)

lol tony, just got through it myself!

ever considered coaching abroad?

yeah maybe 🙂

robbo
SC need a risk awareness course big time letting a concussed rider continue. (and I'd find new mates as well!)

OP you are a pussy.

If you and your buddies were having a bad time you should have said whilst there.

Bitching about it after the fact when you had the chance to maybe square things shows a weak back.

richpips. have you read the thread?

richpips. have you read the thread?

+1

Giving a repsonse to a customer complaint via a live forum? 🙄 Wouldn't making personal contact make more sense? Then giving a response about how they resolved the customers issues on line? Isnt there a recession on?

richpips. have you read the thread?

I read it all.

I was going to say "and yes I have read...." but scratched the excess.

OP you are a pussy. If you and your buddies were having a bad time you should have said whilst there. Bitching about it after the fact when you had the chance to maybe square things shows a weak back.

You know those two things either side of your nose, yeah, them eye things, they help you read. Try doing it some time.

My view is this:
1) As a consumer you have a right to pick what product you want. Whether you like it or not a 'guided holiday' is a product. You pay money, you get the product.
2) Standards are standards. Quite frankly if I paid my money and got guides who were behaving as the OP says then I would be underwhelmed and tell them. Which he did. And quite rightly posted a balanced and non-ranting view.
3) As an overseas visitor I went to BV last year for a week of R&R and nice riding. I wanted great riding all day (tick), nice food (tick), nice people (luckily tick) and banter. It's not the Sheraton granted but then i didn't expect that. What I got was enthusiastic, organised people who understood the concept of organisation and communication. Best. Week. Ever. Will be back next year and that is a round the world trip mainly to go and ride there again. Maybe it was the Tartiflette ?
4) The response was excellent - borderline rant, i could feel the boiling point. Nice one, remind me never to go there.

You know what the funny thing is, even thoguh I think Alan @sierra should have replied differently, his reply was very unwise for his business. I still would go with them, the review and response hasn't put me off in any way! Although I really enjoyed switchbacks so I shall be sticking with them in for my future spain needs, so this is almost wasted sentiment. But I just dont think the percieved failings are actually that bad and in the OP's position I would have had a good holiday.

1) Did you get taken to the top of the hill? Yes.
2) Did you have a roof over you head? Yes.
3) Did the guides show you where the trail was? Most of the time..

Whatever the veracity of the OPs post (and I tend to believe him) the response by Sierra Cycling is a textbook example of how not to do it. Complacent, unapologetic and forgetting who is paying who money.

I've never been on an MTB holiday, but go on 3 ski trips a year, and every now and then you find someone who seems to feel the punters are getting in the way of them having fun or a quiet life. Some people are simply not cut out to run small chalet/travel operations. I'd be one of them btw.

Ciclo Montana - Great riding, great hosts,great weather !

Nuff said (10th-17th sept 2011

is this the end is it over..

Whatever the veracity of the OPs post (and I tend to believe him) the response by Sierra Cycling is a textbook example of how not to do it.

+1

For me the critical issue still outstanding is the illegal trails riding?? Which wasn't covered in the initial response from SC?? Perhaps the most crucial issue?

This has all reminded me why I don't do organised trips. Went on a trip a few years (with a now defunt company in North America) where a lot of simmilar stuff (haphazard transport, guides falling ill, lack of riding time so doing stuff just off the map) happened and put me off organized trips for life. Although strangely still happy doing both kayak guided trips and guided mountaineering (in the right place).

Think the OP presented a balanced view of their week though would have been better had they articulated their discussion with the owner in the 1st post.

Alan's reply is deeply unprofessional for a business owner in what is essentially a service industry. He may be tired of the job, he may be struggling to make ends meet, he may be having personal problems but despite his testimonials he won't be in business for much longer with that attitude.

I think that biking holidays are a growing market that will start to become much more competitive as I don't think it will grow as big as the snowsports industry. The guides are much more important on a bike trip and it sounds like he has lost his main asset, wonder why? Compare the described attitude with 1 you get from your chalet hosts on a ski trip.

Anyway, thanks OP for a very useful bit of info which has been backed up by others who whilst they may not have had as poor a trip as yours sound like they were only a bus breakdown away from it.

I would be gutted if after spending a lot of money I was ignored by my 'hosts' it just sounds like a complete nightmare.
Had a poor experience skiing in Bulgaria years back, in the end we just left the guide/teacher to it and did our own thing.

I used to work as a walking guide in the Alps for Rambler's Holidays and I've read the OP and the reply with interest. It looks to me as if the operator has lost interest in the job and his personal relationships (that's how it comes across anyway) because there's no spark of enthusiasm, which is what oils the wheels on an activity holiday. Running this kind of activity week after week through a season takes a huge amount of energy both physical and emotional, it's like teaching (which I also did in Spain) and if you lose that "spark" you are on the way to failing.

I've worked overseas probably four years of my life and over seven if you count business trips in later life. While travelling you come across all kinds of people who couldn't really do a conventional job back home but have managed to carve themselves some kind of niche in a foreign country, by virtue of being different from the locals.

Why is it fine for people to bang on about a great experience in the public domain but not a shitty one? I bet Sierra Cycling have never complained when receiving positive reports for the world to see.

You can take this guy as a moaning ninny, or you can take the chance to act on some real honest feedback and move your business on to the next level.

Why is it fine for people to bang on about a great experience in the public domain but not a shitty one?

I used to frequent a northampton saints forum where if anyone dared to criticise the players/coaches, they were jumped on for being negative, even if it was constructive criticism...makes for a very sterile forum IMHO

I rode with S C about 8 years ago and it would seem that Alan hasn't changed his business model at all.
We had a large mixed group with about 10 people and for most of the week only one guide, the mini bus was only used a couple of times as we got the impression that it was a pain to use it and the local/doorstep trails were easier for him . Our guide was called Adam I think and he was later joined by a girl called Anna.. We were new to riding and riding holidays but still decided to do the English thing and keep quiet and not return. Alan seemed to be a bit of a miserable bugger from the little I remember seeing him.

a negative review and a response from the company is, personally, more telling than any positive review.

unfortunately for SC, the negative review was pretty balanced and thought out, and the response was quite revealing in my humble opinion.

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To the OP: I generally do a couple of these types of holidays a year and it's very useful to have an impression of your trip, thanks.

I've been on something like 12 or 13 guided MTB holidays now. One of the first things that inevitably gets discussed when you meet the people you'll be riding with is which other trips they've been on. Usually at least one person has been with Sierra Cycling and those words inevitably seem to be accompanied by a wry smile and a raised eyebrow...

I was on a trip last week with a couple who were very impressed by the setup at Bike Verbier - I'm sure you will have a fantastic week there. I'm considering MountainBike Kerala next year too, so would be very interested to hear what that trip is like...

Anyone think that having a biking version of Trip Adviser might be a good sticky on here or would it pi55 off the Singletrack advertisers who would be forced to raise their game and therefore get pulled.

As a former guide (diving guide) it is no excuse to say to paying customers that you cant deal with the unforseable problems.

They pay you to do just that and have back up plans for your back up plans.

So if your bloody mini bus brakes down, or your guide is ill you call on the backup plan. FFS, its not hard to go through all the senarios and potential problems and even the unpredictable ones and come up with a plan for them. Unpredictable just means you cant predict them, not that you cant imagine them. Its not rocket science, its bloody guiding on mountain bikes.

Thats what a professional company should do and thats what paying customers should expect to get. The OP did the right thing telling us about his experience and we are now better informed since the response from SC.

all im saying is Faulty Towers.

Whilst I sympathise with the difficulties that are faced by small businesses, there is simply no excuse to blame unforseen circumstances on what is quite evident a multitude of failures that the OP encountered durig their week away.

I also agree with the majority on here that if you have a bad experience you should feel free to share with everyone just like you would if you had a good experience. I think the OP put across a very balanced and fair review of their experience which unfortunately seems to have been met with very blunt and uncaring response.

Trimix is on the money.

I can't see anything wrong with what the OP said. Just his own experience that wasn't great.

I had a similar one a few years ago in the Maritime Alps. Great when you're in the van and the guides are arguing... We were made to feel really unwelcome by the main guide and it felt like he couldn't be arsed that week and the whole thing was a chore for him (obviously taking our money wasn't a chore). I didn't say much on here as you just get fanboys chiming in saying how great they are and how wrong I was. I just voted with my wallet.

And from my experience the best outfits seem to be those in France. Maybe that has something to do with the rules/regs/laws etc for running an outfit there. Seems in Italy and Spain anybody can rock up and start a MTB holiday company.. I could be wrong of course. 😛

Hello Mistermouse, I'm adam. I'm really sorry to hear you did not have a great holiday with Sierra, but just a quick point of clarification if i may...i did work with Sierra Cycling as a guide for a summer, and really enjoyed it, but I'm guessing (perhaps hoping!) you must have been guided by someone else as I arrived after Anna had left? Its easy to get mixed up though as a lot of the people i guided had been before etc.

I had the pleasure of working alongside an excellent guide (and even better rider) called Tom. A hugely nice guy who was always thinking about the guest experience and if there was anything more he personally could do.

I wasn't going to post as I can't really add anything to the discussion about the here and now as my time there was relatively short, and a long time ago, but having seen my name out of context.....I felt i had to say something really.

Personally speaking, occasional bad days to one side i guess, i shudder to think of anyone having just bitten their lip (stiff, upper, british or otherwise) after having committed time and money to a holiday they were not happy with. I know Tom would too.

I cannot, and will not comment on any of the other guides, I never met or worked with them, but i would want everyone we rode with to know that Tom and I always went well eqquipped for the job. That is all really.

Adam, having had to go through the whole thread again to find your name check, there is no 'guilt by association'. Your reputation is safe and it sounds like you (and the Tom you mentioned) are exactly the type of guides people want.

OT - +1 Cycle Active in the Lakes ( just did TCL training ). Chris and Rich (we didn't meet John) are very welcoming, and have lots of experience.

I hope to guide one day, and if I get a lost person I would be very disappointed with myself - I'd give a full refund. I'd expect all staff to be friendly and helpful ... language barriers and learning routes are skills that can be acquired ... good attitudes go a long way IMO.

I've worked overseas probably four years of my life and over seven if you count business trips in later life. While travelling you come across all kinds of people who couldn't really do a conventional job back home but have managed to carve themselves some kind of niche in a foreign country, by virtue of being different from the locals.

Ditto that.

OT - +1 Cycle Active in the Lakes ( just did TCL training ).

Seems in Italy and Spain anybody can rock up and start a MTB holiday company.. I could be wrong of course.

In Spain at least IIRC you need the qualifications and insurance otherwise its a big fine (which is levied at the guests they catch you with as well!)

Switchbacks told us we always had to be with a guide as they had the relevant tickets as reps of the company.

TBH I don't think the sweeping generalisation about Spain is fair as I know Switchbacks had to jump through some sizeable hoops to operate where they do. And I found them faultless, miles away from the OP's experience.

In Spain at least IIRC you need the qualifications and insurance otherwise its a big fine (which is levied at the guests they catch you with as well!)

You do although for a long long time, there was only one company operating legally in Spain. I think most of the guiding companies there are now registered though.

There is a free bar why are people moaning 😕

I have been with SC a few times and have always enjoyed myself but I am firmly in the you get what you pay for camp!

Not the best reply from Alan and maybe its a kick up the pants his operation needs as it is all looking very tired his downfall is trying to cater for all abilities IMHO. Not a lot he can do about the guides though as good ones dont stay for ever an to keep the operation rolling along he has to put up with guides that have less get up and go as I know its not a well paid job for the effort and risk!!!

Cannot belive he can not get some young locals to take up the mantle seeing that unemployment is so high in that region.
Last point dont moan that Mary did not smile @ you, your lucky you did not get a Glasgow Kiss :D.

Rich

Best bike holidays are ones you plan youre self. No guides. Just need a map and a bit of local knowledge that you can find on the net 🙂