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Good evening Scruff!
Or perhaps it's not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?
yep
I used Sierra Cycling last year for a weeks holiday, two guides with very different outlook on how to treat a group. Jonny was great, very professional and did his best to ensure everyone was kept happy with the trails. Dave (Kiwi) - useless, couldnt be bothered and spoke more about leaving and getting a "real" job - his words.
I found Alan and his partner very unfriendly, I tried talking with both and I found Alan to not really care, he had his money from me I guess and his partner even less bothered about chatting with people.
The riding was actually pretty good, when Jonny was guiding. We had a pretty mixed group but rather than split the group we had to all go out together, something I raised and two others in the group also raised this. One person got a puncture and Dave couldnt have been less interested when they were having an issue with it. It was fixed by me, the rider and another rider. Dave commented that we hadnt rented the bike from them so he doesnt have to fix it - nice.
I thought the week overall was very poor, the only highlight being some very nice trails (what we went for I guess) and the guide Jonny who is a top bloke. Personally I will never return to Sierra Cycling, if I go back to Spain biking I have heard good things about Ciclo Montana and would probably try them.
I have also used Trail Addiction and Bike Village, both I thought were great, possibly enjoyed the Bike Village week a bit more but that was a pretty awesome week and was my first time biking abroad which probably influences my view a bit.
I have read Alan's reply to the OP so if he reads this fully expect the same sort of denial, up to him I guess, whatever he says it wont change my opinion that he is living off being around for a long time and occasionally getting it right with guests. I doubt he would last long if he was a new start with that attitude.
10 years ago we had a wonderful holiday with MountainBeach, I think that it was fairly obvious that we would not be returning or recommending them - to the point where one of the guides took me to one side to apologise for the other guide and his girlfriend.
Was this in Cham by any chance?
Id be happy to go ride stuff in the area - yes.
I dont need to be led around
and looking at the cable car descent Id have sessioned that for the rest of the day.
In fact I hope that is what we do in December.So not a problem.
They why not just rent a place on your own and save the money on paying someone else to tell you something you already know.
Didn't want to fork out for a hire van then?
I dont know the area so will want guides for showing us some routes.
So having a guide makes sense.
but then then adapting to the day is something that will make the holiday better.
Also if I booked a holiday with my friends and we where split up because of ability i'd be gutted. I've gone on holiday with them not some randoms.
I've been to Canada and on a couple of days I didn't ride with my mates as they are more skilled they rode some trails i'd have struggled to ride and probably not enjoyed as i'm not into big jumps or big drops but enjoyed the more flow'y singletrack that I rode with smaller drops.
Sometimes I guess you have to split the group for safety/ability reasons.
Read this thread with interest, as I had a very bad experience with a well known, and it seemed at the time, universally well liked MTB business in the Alps. The experience was so bad, it put me off mountain biking for ages so I feel the OP's pain. Think you've done the right thing by posting that last time and moving on...
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Or perhaps it's not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?
Does google count every time someone writes sierra cycling when it searches? Every single instance of sierra cycling on the internet?
"Sounds like very poor service. What is equally poor is the failure to accept responsibility for a paying customer being left disappointed."
Agree with the above comment for any business. SC is not the only company out there that provides poor value, have been to a few myself. It's not often you find the owner being the one that lets the company down. Have had guides who don't come close to living up to what is expected of the company they guide for, when a complaint has been made the owners have been suprised and shocked (sometimes).
Lesson for all business owners with this sorry tale. You did the right thing Mr MC.
One thing we should remember is that there are some really good guides/companies out there who are a pleaseure to ride with and provide brilliant service.
having been on 7 guided holidays, and worked at one of the better known companies this summer, sierra cycling's operation sounds shoddy as hell, tbh.
if my boss/guides had acted in that way i'd have been mortified, and would have said something myself. as a guest, you pay good money to be looked after, and thats what you should expect.
even when guests are 'challenging' (and not in any way suggesting that mrMC was that), the owners and guides HAVE to go to great lengths to be reasonable, friendly and put a lot of effort into making the holiday a success. its their job.
the company i worked for had a few challenges through the season with vans/accommodation, all it meant was that we all busted our asses to make sure that the holiday wasn't compromised for the guests, even if it meant working non-stop from 7.30am through 10.30pm. and it was done with a smile on the face.
The dave hinde of holidays!
I've heard Sierra Cycling and Dave Hinde will be at the Cycleshow. Either side of some guy selling Mintsauce keyrings. 😆
the company i worked for had a few challenges through the season with vans/accommodation, all it meant was that we all busted our asses to make sure that the holiday wasn't compromised for the guests, even if it meant working non-stop from 7.30am through 10.30pm. and it was done with a smile on the face.
Ditto, when I was a guide. It's part of the job.
To be fair, one thing that really puts me off setting something up is that I will grow bored. But as someone else said "all that means is that it's time to either sell up or find a second/third/fourth location".
What I'm a bit confused about is that when I had a look at the [url= http://www.sierracycling.com/ ]Sierra Cycling[/url] website yesterday I clicked on the link for their guestbook and was taken to [url= http://www.theguestbook.com/read.php/617131/1 ]this page[/url] but today when I clicked on the same link it went [url= http://www.guestbookcentral.com/guestbook.cfm?startrow=1&guestbook=52342 ]here[/url] instead
Either side of some guy selling Mintsauce keyrings.
Ooooof! Be careful fella - [s]criticising[/s] [b]declaring anything that could be construed as negative about[/b] one of the STW 'inner circle' is bound to end up with a ban from Grumpy Mark....
EDIT: To remain squeaky clean I have edited the above statement.
Like he would give a sh1t when there are Sanchos out there that pay for a guided holiday only to go and 'session' something alone.
See this is what happens when you have friends(smilie face)
Billy
Maybe youre not understanding what Im saying
Im going for a guided holiday.
However, if as from time to time things do happen and Im left with an afternoon without a guide then yes Id be happy to sesion one of the trails.
Or find some stuff.
fluffykittens - MemberWhat I'm a bit confused about is that when I had a look at the Sierra Cycling website yesterday I clicked on the link for their guestbook and was taken to this page but today when I clicked on the same link it went here instead
I spotted that yesterday too . . . 22+ pages of positive reviews from the same 10 visitors in 2007 - bit of a glitch? 😕
bit of a glitch here too 😳
I went out there a few years back and although it was'nt quite as bad as the OP's description, I know where he's coming from. I managed to crash hard on the second day, riding like a **** and half cut from a 4am finish session on the lash. I broke my nose and eye socket at the top of a mountain. It was decided that I would have to go back to the digs whilst the lads carried on the ride obviously. I was fairly concussed and couldn't negotiate which brake did what and basically how to get down the mountain to the van. Alan asked if I was ok. I said yes as I am a macho nob and he rode off down the trail. I got to the van after another couple of near misses. Alan opened the door, put his bike in and jumped in. I struggled to lift my bike in on my own as was pretty smashed up but no help from old Al. On the way back to the digs, he basically ignored me. He may well of thought I was just another idiot who's crashed out, but to show his feelings to a customer? I certainly wont be recommending them to anyone in a hurry. Oh and the state of his bike and kit was laughable. I did enjoy Dave's company though, who had only just started with them and was learning the trails. Good look with that I thought.
Fair enough Sancho.
I just got the impression that you were one of those type of folk who had booked and payed for something down the line which was now receiving poor reviews and felt as if your decision warranted some blind protection.
I stand corrected.
Well I'll be going with an open mind.
But I am the sort who dosent mind a few issues here and there as long as I can get some riding in.
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Spot the unhappy customers!
Obviously the only people who really know what happened are SC and the OP's group so it is impossible for me or anyone else who wasn't there at the time to comment although a lot of people think they can slate SC anyway.
The only thing I can say is I have been twice with Sierra Cycling and had a great time on both occasions. While their best asset Jonny has left them for pastures new I can not comment on the present guides. Alan is friendly enough, Mary is a little quiet but also pleasent.
The company is a little laid back but we have always been informed of the starting times, the routes in advance and even asked which we would like to do.
Like a lot of people on here I have done a few guided trips - and my partner and I use them to improve as well as ride in an new and challenging environment.
The guided part of the service is really important us - the guides make the sessions tick in my opinion.
Anyway what I wanted to say after reading this thread is that some companies have put a focus on customer service - and I think that shows in some of the prices, and the quality of the guiding and accomodation on offer accross Europe.
Nobody has metioned the operators margin in the thread - and every guiding company is relient on getting in numbers to make margin. A total of around 14 (?) riders in the week could be too much of a stretch for an operation of this size (gauged by the manpower and resources that have been disclosed in the thread). However, I guess the margins are slim and the temptation to have all of busienss and a 'full week' in the season is important to the operator. They do need to make a living - that's the lifestyle choice they have made - or are trying to make work for them.
The balence has to be what is important to the client.
I am not sure I am bold enough to fully articualte what customer service is to the average person in this forum in the guided mountainbiking space. But I would say I know this about running a business - the best customers are repeat customers - you have less marketing spend attracting them back to you than you do attracting new customers to you - and in every case you have the oppertunity to turn every customer into a promoter (i.e they do your marketing for you) if the experience is great.
In this thread there are detractors - and my thoughts are look at what they are saying. I must confess that I have not used this company, as I have been influenced by some detractors I have met on other trips. I won't act as a promoter for other companies in this thread, as the point I want to make is this, if the service is bad, most of us are not fools, we tend to not go again. And to any operators reading this, I don't know the ins and outs of your various busienss models, but look at your customer base - it's niche, I would say tech savvy, and with a resonable commitment to keep doing this type of holiday for as long as they can. Everyone talks - and the detractors often have the loudest voices - which cast further with the aid of technology. You can't blag it forever.
Intrestingly - what would it have taken to turn MC into a promoter? I guess if the trip was as good, as opposed to as bad as reported, how many other people would have been told about a great trip?
A bit of ramble. Sorry. But I hate poor service, and I listen to both promoters and detractors when I make my consumer choices.
"Well I'll be going with an open mind.
But I am the sort who dosent mind a few issues here and there as long as I can get some riding in. "
You have more determination or willpower than me.
It only takes a five minute delay or minor deviation in plan for me to decide (and give a convincing argument), that we should all give up and go the the pub instead! 🙂
Pub is always a good option 🙂
This is mental!!!
TheSwede - Member
I went out there a few years back and although it was'nt quite as bad as the OP's description, I know where he's coming from. I managed to crash hard on the second day, riding like a **** and half cut from a 4am finish session on the lash. I broke my nose and eye socket at the top of a mountain. It was decided that I would have to go back to the digs whilst the lads carried on the ride obviously. I was fairly concussed and couldn't negotiate which brake did what and basically how to get down the mountain to the van. Alan asked if I was ok. I said yes as I am a macho nob and he rode off down the trail. I got to the van after another couple of near misses. Alan opened the door, put his bike in and jumped in. I struggled to lift my bike in on my own as was pretty smashed up but no help from old Al. On the way back to the digs, he basically ignored me. He may well of thought I was just another idiot who's crashed out, but to show his feelings to a customer? I certainly wont be recommending them to anyone in a hurry. Oh and the state of his bike and kit was laughable. I did enjoy Dave's company though, who had only just started with them and was learning the trails. Good look with that I thought.
SC need a risk awareness course big time letting a concussed rider continue. (and I'd find new mates as well!)
GDRS, I said I would bow out of this thread but in reply to your considered post with my experiences in mind;
I am a "promoter" of cycleactive and their morocco trip (to the point alan suggested I am a friend of the guide). I have repeatedly extolled it on here on relevant threads (including Northwind's "what holiday" thread from a day or 2 ago). If you search STW for "morocco" you will probably find a glowing write-up and numerous pics in from us in every thread. MC is positively evangelical. It was her 30th birthday whilst we were out there, which coincided with a fabulous days riding, and at dinner that night the guides sorted a little cake with a candle. A priceless gesture.
And to prove the point here's MC on her birthday (possibly not looking any happier than in the group pic above but that's her race face 🙂
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there's a couple of grumpy ones in that pic above 😀
interesting - if totally OT - to see the differences in what people wear when riding the same trails
just shows I suppose that we all have different expectations of trails and in turn could lead to some of the party not being 100% happy if the ride plays to the weakest riders
Synopsis? Has Sierra Cycling turned up yet?
I would agree with you there uplink. I think part of the problem of not thinking much to the riding in that area may have been that the rides were tailored to the overall ability of the group and that some of the more experienced riders would have missed out on the fantastic trails nearby. It wouldn't have been fair to take the 'nervous' members of the group down the 'SRAM' test track at Mijas or the technical routes above Caserabonela.
Synopsis? Has Sierra Cycling turned up yet?
Nah, it's just 6 pages of the original post rehashed, with a couple of departures into pedantry and a TJ/Flashie slagathon in the middle. Don't waste your time 🙁
RichPenny - MemberSynopsis? Has Sierra Cycling turned up yet?
Nah, it's just 6 pages of the original post rehashed, with a couple of departures into pedantry and a TJ/Flashie slagathon in the middle. Don't waste your time
Or look at the bottom of page four
Or look at the bottom of page four
Ooo! Is there naked ladies? 😀
Don't be silly.
The naked ladies are on page 2.
Just as an aside, anyone know the whereabouts of Jonny at the mo? Is he still guiding?
Johnny met a girl and packed off somewhere with her, I was told.
NZ
Interesting read.
Playing devil's advocate, I think I can see both sides of the situation.
I appreciate that from a tour organiser's point of view, "unavoidable" problems can happen and, sometimes, avoidable ones too. Sometimes, shit just happens.
I've worked in places where staffing levels have been a problem; sometimes that's just bad luck if half your workforce suddenly get better offers from somewhere, sometimes it's representative of a bad employer. I've been in the thick of it when events outside of your control transpire to give you a Really Bad Day. Such is the way of things.
I'd argue that what makes a good company great is how they deal with this. SC could have been honest from the start, gone "look, I'm really sorry about this but I'm down two guides and it's all a bit difficult, but I'll do everything I can to sort things out" and I'd suspect that MungeDude might then have made allowances. It would appear that this was not done in this case, and I'd suggest that this is a bigger problem than any logistical issues.
But that's by the by. The crux of it is this.
The OP paid for a service which wasn't delivered to his satisfaction. It would appear that there may be mitigating circumstances, but critically [i][b]this is not his problem,[/b][/i] it's wholly SC's. That's how business works, sorry.
Giving SC the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the OP's group could have better communicated their dissatisfaction, and perhaps they could've been more flexible in working with SC to to sort things out. But again, should they have had to? A good tour guide should have spotted the dissent immediately and addressed it, surely?
Speaking purely personally, it seems to me that SC have lost some good staff and hired a disinterested nobber to take their place. Which is a bit of a showstopper when you're selling tours.
Billy
Maybe youre not understanding what Im sayingIm going for a guided holiday.
However, if as from time to time things do happen and Im left with an afternoon without a guide then yes Id be happy to sesion one of the trails.
Or find some stuff.
Admirable, but your paying a premium for guiding, not 'finding stuff'.
We had a week in Andalucia this year, and tbh, the quality of the guiding made the holiday (Joyriders - Hi Mark!), And if I had been left to 'find some stuff', I'd have been well pissed off, and wouldn't ever have found the quality of trails that we rode.