[Closed] A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

Hi Yunki, Alan a friend of yours is he?

Because that is the same response that Alan gave to Mr MC, a direct implication that he was slating his firm to get one up for a friend

*reaches into the STW hole and pulls Jon's post out*

What if it was this;

you had a bad frame..

You gave minimal feedback to the manufacturer before deciding to go public with your grievances straight to the heart of the company's client base amongst a notoriously self-righteous forum without even giving the bloke a chance to explain himself..

See? They're selling a product. That product has been slated in a review.

JonR - 'never argue with an idiot' is the clause I'm bringing into play here

CFH - if a frame was unfit for purpose I would contact the manufacturer..
If ALL their frames were [i]always[/i] unfit for purpose I would consider damning them publicly..

was the holiday fit for purpose..?
who knows..?

Alan and Mr MC I guess

ciao..

Oooh look! A flounce!

This is excellent - perfect revision material

For a masterclass discussion on this sort of thing, HBR has a good offering

http://hbr.org/2010/12/reputation-warfare/ar/1

I've met Alan a couple of times, pleasant enough, I think with him you get what you pay for.

Oh and Fuengorola can be a hoot if you don't (as I did first time down there) die of embarrasment at all the fat Brits on tour.

As my mate from Essex put it - "Theyre awl farkin' Norvern!"

The ride down from the Radio tower above Mijas is tremendous. You dont need uplift.

Yunki - I think you're comments are very unfair to the OP.

He paid money for an holiday that did not meet his expectations or the description of what would be offered. He has every right to warn others of his experience and did so in a balanced and considered manner.

If he'd bought a bike, frame or component and it had not lived up to it's claims, I very much doubt you'd take issue with him letting forum users know. This is no different apart from the fact that S.C. is run by an individual who frequents the forum. Yes, it's more personal but the OP has every right to tell others.

The OP also stated several times that he had raised issues with SC whilst in Spain. Given Alan's somewhat lacklustre response on here, do you really think the OP would have got a different result by complaining to S.C. again once home when you consider that his complaints whilst in Spain seem to have gone unheard?

He has every right to warn others of his experience

I don't agree..
that's my only point

The OP also stated several times that he had raised issues with SC whilst in Spain

that's not what I read here

I've read through the entire thread and commented on it from my point of view..
I'm not about to get drawn into commenting on this point and that point.. I'm not some sort of media pundit FFS

for you to think that I may have missed something valuable is disrespectful

So enough already..

JonR - 'never argue with an idiot' is the clause I'm bringing into play here

CFH - if a frame was unfit for purpose I would contact the manufacturer..
If ALL their frames were always unfit for purpose I would consider damning them..

was the holiday fit for purpose..?
who knows..?

Alan and Mr MC I guess

ciao..

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS40xT-WjD2IFM3P787J1XDAn1--x9FZJssBRz5m191_PrkWoM3mg [/img]

that's my only point

It's a very poor point.

reaches into the STW hole

Is that waht they call it nowadays?

It's a very poor point.

in your extraordinary opinion.. but well enough made for the purposes of this thread..

I look forward to offending your sensibilities with other points that differ from your personal perspective in the future..
but now I must go and wash some dishes..

I agree with Yunki

OP: I understand you intended to write a review, however I feel it reads like a complaint. If I have a complaint with something I contact the company directly as soon as possible. I think that it is not the same as if you were to post a positive review and I feel it is unbalanced without a prior right to reply from SC.

llama - exactly.. thankyou

I think it's time this was made a poll

Did Mr Munge do the right thing in posting his review of SC?

1. Yes
2. No
3. I'll ask someone else
4. I didn't realise Santa Cruz were that bad
5. Does anyone know a good dive guide?

If I have a complaint with something I contact the company directly as soon as possible.

Anyway without this thread we'd never have got Kiwidave's excellent post 8)

I'll ask someone else I think..

Did they have a bad holiday?

A few points...

1. If the OP's complaints were about the service he had experienced in a bike shop then I'm sure there would be less criticism of him for "whingeing" about it. There seems to be a taboo about saying bad things about MTB holiday companies on public forums, perhaps because people feel churlish if they do so - even if they have had a crap holiday - becuase they have spent time in the host's home, want to be friends with them or perhaps because they fear being shouted down by loyal customers.

2. I've only been on a couple of organised bike holidays, and both have been really enjoyable in spite of a few minor irritations. It sounds like the OP had many more irritations and felt prompted to share them - which I am grateful for.

3. STW is hardly a "baying mob". If anything the default response on here is to tell anybody with a complaint to MTFU and to take the opposite side. Which suggests there is merit to the OP's complaints.

4. Yes the compamny involved is more than one person's livelihood, but a better initial response could have shut this thread down. Instead it was petrol on the flames really.

5. I really don't like the word "legend" in it's current geezer-ish usage, but Kiwidave IS a legend.

Kiwidave IS a legend

+1 for [i]that[/i]

I feel it reads like a complaint

It [b]was[/b] a complaint wasn't it? It was on a forum the SC guy uses himself so he had a right to reply which he used. We can read the complaint and his response and the testimonials added by satified customers and the comments of a previous SC guide and make our own minds up? That's the power of the web isn't it?

Did they have a bad holiday?

yes, yes he did:(

for you to think that I may have missed something valuable is disrespectful

...and for you to assume you haven't is arrogant.

One thing I have learned from all this is [u]not[/u] to go on a guided dive holiday.

fair enough

Where do I book?

Before you do, read this thread: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-shambolic-week-with-sierra-cycling/

Do not open that link, it will generate a worm hole of despair and vitriol into which we will all descend faster than the speed of light. 😯

Hmmmm... if Alan is thinking of ducking out and selling the business then maybe I will step up to the mark and give it a bash!

Jeff...

---Adding fuel to fires and stirring the pot since Noah got his first Hammer---

Oh no...I agree with yunki.

pistonbroke, is that like if you google "google", you break the internet?

A small point of information. Is KiwiDave the same bloke as the 'Dave' in the OP? The reason I ask is that KD seems to have last worked for SC in 2010.

Two different Daves - KiwiDave references t'other Dave in his post.

Do try to keep up 😉

I think the bit where kiwidave says 'I don't know Dave...' gives it away... I might be wrong though...

In case some of you were wondering what some of the people involved in all of this look like, here's kiwidave:

[url= http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2193/3543242303_a4ca05291c_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2193/3543242303_a4ca05291c_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

And here's Jonny:

[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/3552594172_577f0a2cd6_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/3552594172_577f0a2cd6_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

🙂

[Edit]Err, not that either of these guys were guiding during the holiday that triggered this whole thread!

can i just point out that the OP could have bypassed all of this hassle by manning up in the first place and going to the alps instead of spain.

Trailmonkey we have done the Alps 8 out of the last 10 years we were manned up enough 😉

Where is kiwidave from? anybody know

Stoke

daznal - Member
Where is kiwidave from? anybody know

Swindon.

An interesting conundrum now. The thread continues, and seems to be continuing, and it's hardly the best advert. SC can hardly ask for it to be pulled, can they? So, will it just keep running?

I'm more interested in which planet Yunki is from...

An interesting conundrum now. The thread continues, and seems to be continuing, and it's hardly the best advert. SC can hardly ask for it to be pulled, can they? So, will it just keep running?

Odds on final number of pages?

yunki - Member

He has every right to warn others of his experience

I don't agree..
that's my only point

That's a joke. Is it? Are you serious?

Anyway for balance:
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sierra-cycling-spain-any-experience ]These people have no right to warn others of their experience, or is it OK when what they are saying is positive?[/url]

TBH it's not that bad for sc, a good few have said they don't give a damn about the OP's complaints. It's actually an amazing thread. Despite me thinking it was bad news for SC it seems not so bad..

errp.. Al agreeing with me.. 🙁

I must go and scrub til dawn in a scalding hot shower..

I'm glad that it's not panning out too badly though.. considering that SC seems to have a fairly good reputation prior to this, it would seem a shame to me that anyone would want to see a small family business get dragged down due simply to what seems like staffing difficulties and mechanical problems..

I'm sure that we all encounter difficult weeks occasionally..

yunki - Member
it would seem a shame to me that anyone would want to see a small family business get dragged down due simply to what seems like staffing difficulties and mechanical problems..

Me earlier...

[img] [/img]

Generally if I see a post as long as ‘kiwidave’s’ - I’ll give it a quick glance over and not much more, unless the thread is of particular interest to me.

I’m glad a read it. He clearly expended a fair amount of time and energy in constructing what comes across as an unbiased and critically thought out exposé of life as a MTB guide.

If there was ever a contribution to encourage a forum inspired piece in the magazine - this is it.

Best post in years.

Any pics of mary? Need to put a face to dave's flattering description

it would seem a shame to me that anyone would want to see a small family business get dragged down due simply to what seems like staffing difficulties and mechanical problems..

I'm sure that we all encounter difficult weeks occasionally..

I don't see why the OP doesn't have the right to criticise - it's no different to a review on Trip Advisor surely.

FWIW I don't think the OP's complaints were [i]that[/i] bad, but it's still not what you want from a holiday company. Certainly sounds very different from my experience with AQR in Luchon - I was only with them for a day's guiding but they couldn't have been more friendly, helpful and welcoming.

I guess if you have experienced very high standards elsewhere then these things can be pretty disappointing.

don simon - Member
It's a business, no room for emotion, as a family business they offer family rates or market rates. If they can't run a business, they shouldn't.

And this is one week out of 10,000 and they're still in business?

I think they can run a business.

Any pics of mary? Need to put a face to dave's flattering description

I'm not sure I like the way that the business owners partner is becoming a target for ridicule in this thread
the boss is fair game for criticism but I really don't think Mary should be subjected to what is quite close to personal insults

I think they can run a business.

I'm not sure I like the way that the business owners partner is becoming a target for ridicule in this thread

Agree with that.

I've sat here and watched this thread for days. Superb.

I think the thing that astounds me is

1) the 1st impressions Alan and Mary gave (if the OP is telling the truth)
2) when there is a problem they let the customer know and impact the customers experience without managing the customer expectation.

I think SC have more than enough info to take on board from this thread. So give 'em a chance to use it and make improvements where needed. I'd hate to see them go down as a result of all this anonymous mud slinging.

This is good, a rant at a new SC, here was me thinking Superstar components would have that covered for years!

I will be mentioning this thread when i book with alan, just to make sure there are guides/transport prepared for my visit

the riding looks great, the beach is right there, i like spain anyway....

*clicks linky and grabs credit card*

whats the weather like at the end of february?

Can anyone summarise? I got to the customer not so happy bit...

Well, read through it all and yes, kiwidaves post is enlightening and honest. Fair play to him.
With regards to the OP, I think she/he has every right to come on here and comment on anything they like, especially something bike related! I've read plenty of MC/Mrs MCs posts over the years and theyve always seemed reasonable in the past. It does sound like they didn't have the best week possible, and if it was me paying money I'd probable say the same thing.
In saying that though, using the word "shambolic" in the title kinda sets the tone for the OPs attitude to this in general. Yes, things obviously weren't as good as they should have been but that's not completely Alans fault is it? One of the things that folk seem to like about SC holidays is how chilled out they are. That's obviously reflected in how they reacted to some of the issues.. What comes out of MCs posts is that they were expecting a tightly run, well oiled holiday and they didnt get it. Perhaps the mindset of the two parties are just too different and that's what's led to a public airing of dissatisfaction and possibly having the post of the year on our hands.

Freester, could you please translate point 2 into English for those of is who aren't fluent in corporate speak or whatever that was? Thanks! 😀

cynic-al - Member

And this is one week out of 10,000 and they're still in business?

I think they can run a business.

As long as you're not doing their books, eh?

Heh 😀

Page 13 yet?

"Can anyone summarise? I got to the customer not so happy bit..."

....Customer not so happy cos had certain expectations of service (prob formed on past experiences) that were not met + Company not overly bothered cos have certain standards of service, which suit them and most of their customers = Extremely long, sometimes fun, sometimes serious, post from [to quote kiwidave 2011]"bores, geeks, crazies, weirdos and arseholes"

 

Great reply Dave , I can honestly say the time I spent in yours and Johnnies company was always enjoyible and youll always be welcome for a cold one anytime you ever are back in Funky town ,I just hope the trails we built are still rideable , was a pleasure to have known you guys

can i just point out that the OP could have bypassed all of this hassle by manning up in the first place and going to the alps instead of spain.

😆

In fairness to Alan and kiwidave, if you raise problems off forum they explain it's not their fault and that the problem is you. 😀

I've a certain respect for the attitude in general, but not much time for being on the wrong end of it when I've spent much pounds and haven't had much of a time. Some airs of amateurish shambolicism are rather more charming than SC's, and twice was enough.

trailmonkey - Member
can i just point out that the OP could have bypassed all of this hassle by manning up in the first place and going to the alps instead of spain.

I particulary liked trailmonkey's stunning example of 'manning up' on our recent Alps trip when he got off his bike and walked down some switchbacks 'cos it was a bit steep 😉

I have to add that if I had got service like the OPs from a guiding holiday I had paid good money for they would have got a lot more from me. I would have walked and been after my money back. Hopefull I would have paid with a credit acard so I could.;

Holidays are a service industry. Its about SERVICE!

There is no excuse at all for crap service - I will never accept it. The customer is always right

The customer is always right

I have to add that if I had got service like the OPs from a guiding holiday I had paid good money for they would have got a lot more from me. I would have walked and been after my money back. Hopefull I would have paid with a credit acard so I could.;

Holidays are a service industry. Its about SERVICE!

There is no excuse at all for crap service - I will never accept it. The customer is always right

100% right, Jeremy.

But what % of the service was not provided?

100?

Dream on.

The customer is always right

I work in a service industry. I never forget it is a service we are providing

I work in a service industry. I never forget it is a service we are providing

Good stuff.