Everyone else should have to earn their place on the trails.
Statements like this mark you out as a bit of a bellend.
Along with confusing Ebikes with motorbikes.
The problem is that, in the general population, a certain number of people are idiots.
This also applies to any given sub-grouping of the general population.
MTB riders are not exempt from this.
A rider buzzing your back tyre would probably do it, regardless of whether they were riding an e-bike or not.
They probably drive their car in the same, inconsiderate, way.
Don't blame to mode of transport - it is merely an idiot amplifier
It'll be the same type of idiots who ruined it for everyone else to be able to wild camp around Loch Lomond.
Idiots are a minority but a major pain in the arse for everyone else.
MOre times than not it’s a rider using every e power that buzzes my tyre at sherwood. IS there something about the place that causes riders of those bikes being to check manners in at the door?
its because they dont know they are idiots
or have been brought up so badly they dont know how rude they are
Ebikes allow access to areas and speeds that used to be the domain of the competant or advanced mtber
Now every tom, dick an harry with a credit card can whizz up climbs out in the middle of nowhere . Pre ebikes if you were an hour from a car park and a rider came up at a rate of knots you knew , for sure they were tasty , would be past you safely when its safe for both riders and say 'thanks , have great day'
Not any more , 20 marlboros a day and 6 pints of Stella the night before and paddy the plasterer can beat Julian Absolon up to the mast at GT
I dont get the need for buzzing a tyre tho , words would be had if you try that stuff on me .Ask for a gap when its safe and im not off into a nettlebed or brambles then no worries
and dont get me started on trail errosion , braking late and skiddin into uphill corners just because you have a turbo button . your in the wrong sport if thats you.
my ebikes faster than your ebike . no . one . cares .
Its a simple matter of etiquette and respect and some e-bikers are just arseholes, barging past like its a Redbull foxhunt, just hang back and pick your moment to overtake and be friendly and vocal about it, like we do on the descents, I wouldn't dream of riding up a weaker riders arse unannounced then almost scrape elbows as I pass by but some e-bikers think having a battery gives them a special privilege.
Its a bit like those joggers on the pavement who for some reason think its acceptable to silently come up from behind and miss you by inches even when 1000 people a day are dying of covid, I always end up shouting dickhead at them and totally justified in doing so.
My question is, are normal bikes now called 'clockwork bikes' by ebikers? And if so why, as that would surely indicate they are 'wind up'?
and dont get me started on trail errosion , braking late and skiddin into uphill corners just because you have a turbo button . your in the wrong sport if thats you.
Or see every Joe Barnes/Dudes of Hazzard video when exactly the same thing is happening on every downhill.
I do sympathise with anyone who has been knocked off by ANY faster/inconsiderate riders, but this has always happened since trail centres became popular. Human beings are @r$eholes.
Do the ebike haters also think that enduro bikes should be banned from trail centres? By similar logic they allow less skilled people to go faster on downhills and ride trails they wouldn’t other wise be able to handle.
As a responsible ebiker I hope that we are just in a state of adjustment. It is easy to forget the speed differential on climbs especially if the ebike rider has never been to a trail centre on a normal MTB. Also, for future trail building do the builders need to factor more passing opportunities into climbs?
Just wow! The only time I've had anybody tyre buzz me was in a race and that wound me up as there was plenty of room to pass, they just didn't want to get on the slightly slower grass to do it.
I think if a stranger did that to me on ride without numberboards there'd be a reaction which would depend on how much energy I had left and what sort of day I'd had.
Very rarely have issues with ebikes, there was a chap that clipped me on the way past as he misjudged the speed difference on the climb and a chap who block passed me at the bottom of a fire road climb so I lost all my momentum from the descent.
To the OP, totally ridiculous example of stupidity you witnessed.
I do get the feeling that some riders on e bikes feel you should just get out of their way, either on road or the trails. It is easy to go fast with a motor (some seem to have them deregulated, certainly on the road side), I am not saying there are not fast talented riders on ebikes. However some clearly lack a lot including any decency.
As pointed out earlier in the thread an idiot is an idiot no matter what they are doing.
Wow, i best be careful Sherwood pines is my local, I ride an ebike and I live in Mansfield.
When I catch a slower rider I wait behind till they acknowledge me and let me past, what is the proper etiquette ? I don’t have a bell so can’t ring that, do I shout excuse me please ? In the past I’ve tried the good morning can I pass when you’re ready but I’ve had replies from no, to **** off to yeah no problem. So now I don’t ask in case it’s someone aggressive, maybe it just proves there are idiots on all sorts of bikes. It can be a problem as pines is very suited to an ebike and fast in places and clockwork bikes are always slower, but idiots will be idiots it’s not related to the bike they’re on.
Personally I feel that if the reason you’re catching up with someone on a trail that was built for MTBs, is that you have a motor, then you should slow down and give them space, unless they’re so kind that they wave you by as soon as they hear you coming.
If not, every non-E MTBer is going to end up getting annoyed with motorised bikes turning up and interrupting their flow by asking to overtake. And as someone who likes his ebike as much as his non-E hardtail, I don’t want that happening.
and clockwork bikes are always slower, but idiots will be idiots it’s not related to the bike they’re on.
In the same way a car is faster than walking.
In all the years I've been riding, all over the country nobody has ever reacted badly to being asked if I can pass. So either it's a reaction to the ebike or its you or its bs.
Must try harder and faster, people.
It's not an e-thread this is human powered.
I have to say, if someone I didn't know deliberately buzzed my rear wheel (If I knew them I'd know it was just for a laugh) there would be some serious words exchanged. They'd be left in no doubt what I thought of them. And I'd feel better with myself for having done it rather than just fuming under my breath. That said, in close on 20 yrs of biking I've never had any such incident (commuting aside 🙂 ).
I always keep an ear\eye out for faster riders (regardless of bike type) and pull aside where possible to let them pass. Will just politely ask to pass if I come up on a slower rider who hasn't noticed me.
People referring to buzzing...is this literal or metaphorical?
I refuse to believe that so many people are actually making tyre to tyre contact as mentioned in this thread. Surely not.
As for the guy who mentioned it downhill.... double refuse to believe it.
I always keep an ear\eye out for faster riders (regardless of bike type) and pull aside where possible to let them pass
Yep, always keep an ear out too and in all honesty if I look at the bike on its way past, my ego is much happier if I see a motor.
In the same way a car is faster than walking.
In all the years I’ve been riding, all over the country nobody has ever reacted badly to being asked if I can pass. So either it’s a reaction to the ebike or its you or its bs.
You only have to look at replies here some folk really hate an ebike, I don’t care tbh I just ride my bike and I’m always polite. If someone has a problem with me or my bike it’s just that it’s their problem, they won’t get a reaction from me.
Just like with dangerous dogs, its usually the owner that's the problem not the bike, if you are respectful and friendly on an ebike nobody has an issue with you or the bike.
I suppose you're going to be passing more people so will have higher odds of meeting a ****, the world is full of them.
The only way to know for sure is to get an e-bike and see if people get upset when I ask to pass or play a whirring sound like a false exhaust note in a modern car.
There’s plenty of slow folk on ebikes too, when I drag a friend round on his human bike we pass plenty of ebikes as he’s one of the quickest human riders and he likes the challenge of chasing me on my ebike. The look of confusion on some ebike riders faces as an XC bike passes them is ace, no aggression though.
Maybe they’re confused riders on both bikes can be friends 🤣
I don't ride trail centres for various reasons, just personal choice mainly.
On the natural trails I ride I get overtaken a fair amount which is fine by me and most riders do give me a heads up.... probably as I'm wobbling all over the place mainly.
If someone buzzed my rear wheel my instinct would probably be to slam the anchors on right away as I'd assume I'd just broken the bike.Lol
In summary, probably best not to buzz my tyre, not because I'm a trail warrior but because I'll likely have us both face down in the dirt.😁
I had a situation like this on the blue trail at QE Park. Me and my son were taking 4 new riders round the blue trail, my lad was at the front, I was at the back. Prick came up behind pissing and moaning about how slow we were going. I told him why we were slow and to **** off to the red trail if he didn't like it. He still pissed and moaned, so I called him a few names and told the lads to pull over so the **** could pass. If he'd been so inclined it probably could have resulted in fisty-cuffs... though I didn't really fancy his chances cos the 4 new riders were all 17 year old rugby players, a couple of em quite large lads 😆
ebikes were not involved in this incident, just ****s. Yeah, I'm one, so don't piss me off 😀
Just like with dangerous dogs, its usually the owner that’s the problem not the bike, if you are respectful and friendly on an ebike nobody has an issue with you or the bike.
Very much this.
That being said ebikes have grown the sport in ways a bit more suspension travel, an extra gear or two or different wheel size have never done. Rule of averages states that some of those new riders will be pricks. It’s just now you will come into contact with them as they are probably passing you on a climb.
Sherwood and Cannock are my local trail centres and I have had loads of interactions with ebikes most are fine but as with all user groups, some interactions are unpleasant.
I’ve got nothing against ebikes, but how the hell do people afford them? I’d never buy one because I’m extremely shallow (and could never justify the price) when it comes to how a bike looks and they all, without exception, look ****ing terrible.
Can I just ask, is this an e-bike hate thread, or an idiot hate thread ? I’m not sure.
I don't think it's either, it's a basic etiquette thread, I've caught up with other riders on trails before (no really), depending on whether we're towards the start of say a fun Red or nearing the end of a trail I will either shout "Rider" / "on your Right" if the opportunity presents itself or just hang back a tad and give them some space... If I do get past always give a "cheers" or "thanks" shout.
The one thing I would never do is buzz some poor bugger's rear tyre, that's unmistakable ****tery...
You don't know the person, their ability, fatigue level or temperament and you're basically giving them a little suprise punt that could have you both off depending on their reaction... FFS!
Is this really a thing people do at trailcentres now? I've not been to one in a while...
On reflection, I can't tell if it's an ebike rider behind me asking to get past or a good rider asking to get past, until they are close enough to see or hear the motor/belly.
So I don't buy people resenting ebikes trying to get past.
I’ve got nothing against ebikes, but how the hell do people afford them?
2x good jobs, no kids.. 😉
I'm partly on [b]chevychase[/b]'s side, and partly not. E-bikes are absolutely an amplifier of crap behaviour, and allow people access to locations they wouldn't have otherwise been able to.
On the other hand, without one my other half wouldn't be able to, or even want to come riding with me, and it wouldn't have re-ignited her love for cycling. She's courteous and polite on the trails, and only uses enough assist that we're going the same speed uphill. So I'm conflicted.
I’ll likely have us both face down in the dirt.😁
It's your special skill, why not share it? 😀
I clearly don't visit trail centres enough to have this happen to me. All my interactions with ebikes in the real world have been pleasant enough. I'm always delighted to see the bottom bracket lump when someone charges past me on a climb, because it means that I wasn't just ground into the dirt by a non-powered rider!
Anyone else's reaction on being overtaken to have a glance at the crank area? 🙂
I'd just like to observe that I can only remember ebikers being courteous or even apologetic when passing me. Perhaps people are more friendly in the north?
And the only tyre buzzing that's acceptable in my book is to wind your friends up.
But is conflict between ebikers and MTBers inevitable when we're using the same trail network (thinking of trail centres here) and have very different speeds on climbs, and sometimes on the flat?
Just like we see tension between cyclists and walkers or sometimes horseriders on RoWs.
There are a lot of newcomers on both eebs and MTBs, and I know there's been discussion about the need for more education on etiquette. We may see something to that end this year, but personally I wonder if the "be nice, say hi" messaging via social media is perhaps more effective than a list of "rules".
Here's the thing some people don't need E Bikes to act like a dick it just comes naturally to them regardless 🙄
Are there maybe two issues about Ebikes that people are mainly thinking about? Does it encourage some normally (fairly) considerate people to get carried away and ride a bit more aggressively? Secondly, do Ebikes mean that a subset of plonkers who would never normally ride mountain bikes are now on the trails?
The former may well apply to an extent and often does with cars. I like to think I’m fairly logical and have pretty good self control but I’m still a flawed human being. I drive our van or our slower car and being a steady, very courteous driver is simple. Take the bonkers car out and it takes a real conscious effort to be a nice human being 100% of the time. Coming from a car background, lots of trackdays, sprints, hill climbs etc, lots of my friends are the same. Could it apply to Ebikes too? And clearly it’s not everyone.
For the latter, there may be lots of new plonkers but who knows? Impressions and individual experiences probably won’t give us any concrete answers. By far the largest proportion of bell ends I come across on bikes are of the E variety but then again I’ve chatted to lots of really nice Ebike owners 🙂
Personally, I think we need a lot more emphasis on etiquette for all trail users, not just bikers, whatever the persuasion. Same as in general society, behavioural frameworks can help us all get along that much better and avoid needless conflict.
Christ. If this is what popular riding spots and trail centres have become then I'll never go back to one.
E-bikes will attract all different kinds of riders, but some will be the lazy gits that want a dirt bike buzz without the effort and won't give a c**p about anyone or anything than themselves.
Too many of them will be the death of trail centres, too many of them on public rights of way could be the end of cycling on bridleways.
“ I’ve got nothing against ebikes, but how the hell do people afford them?”
This comment would make a lot more sense if people were having problems with super yacht owners buzzing their rear tyre, and pondering where they get the money for their multimillion pound boat.
But when the price difference between an alloy full-sus and the same in carbon is as much as the cost of adding a motor and battery, then...
A ebike costs less than the first year depreciation on an average new car.
I have an ebike, along with some others, so I am often conscious of the conflicts of opinion that can occur. However, the only place I can recall encountering ebikers that I thought were actively being dicks was actually at Sherwood Pines, and I have only been there once.
We (Me, wife, 6yo and 9yo) were riding the red loop and we encountered a number of ebikes absolutely charging it on the trail, almost steamrollering those in front of them, and huffing and grumbling when other riders were in front of them. My kids were a bit scared by it ,but I told them to just ignore it, keep riding and pull over when it was safe.
Towards the end of the trail we encountered a wandering family, complete with pushchair on one of the last sections of singletrack. I was just having the "Are you lost?" type conversation with a Mum and kids who were clearly not meaning to be on the bike trail, when a woman on an ebike came charging up, started the sotto voce muttering, and roughly pushed past all of us saying to the woman, "Your kids are gonna get killed." I was mortified and reassured the lady that that wasn't the case, but the nearest walking trail was over-there. She was a bit white with shock.
My conclusion was not that all ebikers are dicks, but that ebikes help suppressed dicks let their inner dicks out.
Why you would go to Sherwood Pines on a sunny August weekend and expect that you'd have the place to yourself is beyond me. I was amazed how busy it was. It made GT seem quiet, and the massive range of bikes and abilities was pleasing to see, and if anything, made the all-the-gear brigade with matching colour coded 160mm travel bikes and outfits look even more ridiculous.
“ I’ve got nothing against ebikes, but how the hell do people afford them?”
This comment would make a lot more sense if people were having problems with super yacht owners buzzing their rear tyre, and pondering where they get the money for their multimillion pound boat.
But when the price difference between an alloy full-sus and the same in carbon is as much as the cost of adding a motor and battery, then…
A ebike costs less than the first year depreciation on an average new car.
Still makes sense to me as I’ve never purchased a new car or spent more than about £1.5k on a bike. The opening price for a decent eBike is very expensive. Hence why I find their prevalence quite strange. Assume people must have a lot more disposable income than me.
It’s the looks I can’t get past either. They’re just really ugly things.
Secondly, do Ebikes mean that a subset of plonkers who would never normally ride mountain bikes are now on the trails?
No more than lockdown has done the same to the outdoors in general.
Country park near me has been part of my local loop for 16 years. Average weekday now is busier than it ever used to be on a sunny summer Sunday. Car park regularly full with cars abandoned on the grass verge of the drive and part blocking the entry junction. On the one hand it’s great to see an increase in types of folks using it, while on the other it’s increased the types who can’t go anywhere without a take away coffee cup in their hand but are unable to carry it all the way back to the car. Never used to see any litter there, but now a common sight. Sooner the pubs and shopping centres are open and cheap flights to Benidorm resume the better
Still makes sense to me as I’ve never purchased a new car or spent more than about £1.5k on a bike. The opening price for a decent eBike is very expensive. Hence why I find their prevalence quite strange. Assume people must have a lot more disposable income than me.
Lots of cheap finance deals around. People aren’t going on holiday or to the pub.
“ Still makes sense to me as I’ve never purchased a new car...”
Yes but you must have seen new cars existing, even if you’ve never bought one yourself (nor have I). You might even know someone personally who has bought one. I assume those people driving expensive new cars have more disposable income than me!
In better times I ride with a group made up of analogue and e bikers. The latter group have In my mind earned the right to move to e after doing 20 odd years of hard graft to get to and up the trails under their own steam. Some of them are getting on now or have health issues and this helps them continue to enjoy trails. Most of the time theyre courteous eg stay back to close gates etc.
Occasionally we have some fun blocking them uphill on narrow paths and they may buzz our tyre.
I suspect a lot of these badly behaved e types are new to the sport, don’t know the etiquette and have jumped on the latest fad. As above I am worried about what perception of our sport and impact on continuing access the idiot element may cause.
If a stranger rides up and buzzed my back wheel on a trail I’d be getting out the bombers. Not that they’d know what that means......
Couchy, I'm a regular on my clockwork bikes at Pines as it's very local, you aren't the problem, and it sounds as though there are plenty of eejits on both sides.
I've had grief off people for a cheery "can I squeeze by when it's safe?" if they don't hear me approach, but most are fine. Can't let the odd @rse spoil a ride.
Conversely I try to sprint to a safe overtake spot if I realise someone is catching me, it's basic trail etiquette.
Sadly I think a few people need reminding, but for those who never knew some signage at the trail head might help. Yes, I'm being optimistic.
Couchy, I’m a regular on my clockwork bikes at Pines as it’s very local, you aren’t the problem, and it sounds as though there are plenty of eejits on both sides.
I’ve had grief off people for a cheery “can I squeeze by when it’s safe?” if they don’t hear me approach, but most are fine. Can’t let the odd @rse spoil a ride.
Conversely I try to sprint to a safe overtake spot if I realise someone is catching me, it’s basic trail etiquette.
Sadly I think a few people need reminding, but for those who never knew some signage at the trail head might help. Yes, I’m being optimistic.
We’ve probably passed at some point, tbh ebikes at pines are least of the issues at the moment especially at weekends. During first lockdown it was chaos, everyone all of a sudden had a right to be out and exercising and were vocal about it as it was essential, now it’s cold for some reason their exercise isn’t as essential.... But pines at a weekend is a no for me, families with tag alongs and seats on red, people stopping for a picnic and blocking routes, people walking and riding the wrong way. There’s a whole new group of people who have no idea of trail etiquette and no idea some of us can be doing 25-30mph on the long down hill bits, it’s pretty dangerous and tbh it’s no surprise some of these new folk are dickheads and some are on ebikes. Luckily as soon as restrictions are lifted these folk should mostly disappear back to the all day pubs and retail parks 🤣
on the long down hill bits,
At Sherwood Pines? Now I know I'm getting on a bit but I don't remember there being any such thing. Has someone imported a hill, a bit like they did Stonehenge from Wales?
Lol long for Sherwood pines, not long for anywhere else 🤣
