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Your radiologist may not be a physicist or engineer.
Exactly, and same goes for doctors. A whole load of "helmet saved your life" stuff from doctors (yeah, I had that as well). They don't know that or whether the helmet reduced injuries or was a factor in them. They've just seen the result.
Radiologist was suggesting from having seen fractures like this before that spine fractures from head on impacts seemed to occur more with helmets. Than without though? Pure conjecture.
Though maybe there's something in it. Helmets soften the blow to the head but they don't prevent the shock going through the rest of the body, and maybe without a helmet the head takes the majority of the shock. So less likely to damage the spine, but you may have a big hole in your head.
maybe without a helmet the head takes the majority of the shock. So less likely to damage the spine, but you may have a big hole in your head
Definitely - I cracked vertebrae in my neck when I went OTB and head first into a tree - I can say for certain that I'd rather have had a bit of a stiff neck for a few weeks than whatever damage that tree would've done without the helmet between us. And who's to say I wouldn't have had neck damage as well as a smacked in skull/brain.
Bruce, you're talking bollocks - it has time and time again been shown that the safest helmets are those that allow the head to slide along the ground more easily.
On the topic of liners, EPS is still the best for single impact attenuation...
https://helmets.org/liners.htm
However, the main reason I want one is because if you can get the same level of protection from a flexible helmet as you can from a rigid one then going with the flexible option is always going to be the best option. It’s going to be much more comfortable and, more importantly, it’s got more chance of staying in place when you have a crash.
But you can't, for example - whilst your helmet may have just passed the standards - most companies try to exceed them. Leatt for example - posts the laboratory data to prove the exceed the various standards. So no, not all helmets that pass the same certificate are created equally.
Bruce, you’re talking bollocks – it has time and time again been shown that the safest helmets are those that allow the head to slide along the ground more easily.
I agree (mostly about the head sliding part but I'll admit I do have my moments). I don't have any data handy on the friction coefficient of conventional helmets but I'd imagine the cloth makes it a good bit higher. However, if they were to use a thin plastic shell instead of the cloth cover, or to just use it without a cover, then that should bring the friction coefficient right down.
Also, with the form being smaller than a conventional helmet, the rotation forces on the head should be smaller given the fact the lever arm is shorter. Overall I think this type of design will result in far lower rotational forces compared to EPS.
On the topic of liners, EPS is still the best for single impact attenuation…
You do realise that the claim you made and the link you posted don't say the same thing. Maybe it would be best if you quoted the particular bit you think backs up what your saying. Here's the bit from your link that I think backs up my thinking:
Although there are many types of foams available, EPS remains the choice for most bike helmets because it performs well in hard impacts and it is light, cheap, durable in use, reliable to manufacture and easy to ventilate. A rate-sensitive foam would probably permit better protection against the mild concussions that today's bike helmets just have to accept to provide protection against catastrophic brain injury in very hard impacts, but has other drawbacks. Research continues, and new foams appear from time to time, but for the present they all have disadvantages that keep them from replacing EPS. The use of collapsing plastic constructs seems to offer the most potential for progress in liners in the short run, but heirarchical material research is the promise for the future.
Feel free to quote the bit where it says EPS is the best for single impact attenuation because I couldn't find it.
whilst your helmet may have just passed the standards – most companies try to exceed them.
Which companies exceed them? Leatt apparently do but if I was a helmet manufacturer and I made helmets that exceeded specifications I'd make damn sure I mentioned it somewhere. Funnily enough, I don't see as much about exceeding specifications as I do about how light/aerodynamic/cool-looking a helmet is. This suggests to me that the vast majority of helmets meet the specification rather than exceed them (and even if all helmet manufacturers out there do exceed specifications already, how do you know this helmet doesn't as well?)
I do talk bollocks. My imagination tends to run wild and I take ideas from several different sources to find solutions to problems. This often makes it difficult for me to get my points across.
In this case though, you're just too lazy to read what people are actually saying so you're just spouting random knee-jerk nonsense and posting links that don't mean anything.
Take a breath, go do some reading, think about what you want to say, and then you can come back and start tapping away on the keyboard.
& there’s little old me getting my head round the idea that mips in cycling helmets actually makes a difference.
tbc...
@bez – not sure I understand your comment? Surely as this is a MTB forum, ‘us’ are a group of mountainbikers who may or may not ride other bikes as well. Hence we are all used to wearing helmets off road and are fairly happy with that situation.
Yes, that was clear from your earlier post, which is why I remarked that it said a lot about your definition of “us” 😉
Whether we wear them on road for commuting etc is not so clear cut. ‘Them’ conversely will be people like my wife and most of the population who don’t ride mountainbikes offroad and are therefore not used to wearing helmets. My comment was that in my opinion the helmet was designed for the latter group and not for us and therefore I was suprised when one of ‘us’ stated they would rather wear it rather than a specific MTB helmet……
And that’s my point: you’re surprised solely because of your narrow definition of “us”. I’m one of “us” by your definition, yet I relate very much to the views you cite for your wife and daughter.
People like “us” do all sorts of riding. I used to ride mountain bikes hell for leather all the time, but nowadays not so much. I do a lot more riding to the shops/school/the station, country lanes and bridleways. If I was one of the “us” who felt that sort of stuff warranted a helmet I’d perhaps be interested in this one rather than an MTB helmet for that purpose… despite still being one of the “us” that throw ourselves off hills every so often and hang out on MTB forums.
Regarding 'them' and 'us' and this helmet being for 'them' rather than 'us', I'm not sure why 'we' couldn't use this helmet. As I said earlier, helmet manufacturers are like shoe manufacturers, they aim for the middle of the bell curve of head shapes when they design a helmet. If you have a head shape that falls outside their target you're always going to struggle to find a rigid helmet that fits properly.
For me and my long narrow head, I get bad headaches if I tighten the webbing up enough to make me feel that it's secure enough to not fall off in a crash. I've taken to loosening it off for climbs and then hoping I remember to tighten it up for descents. If it's a long descent I have to just leave it loose and hope for the best.
This isn't so much of a problem when I wear a motorcycle helmet because they have much more padding meaning that my funny shaped head isn't so much of an issue. Not really practical for a cycling helmet and why I think that a flexible helmet design, whether it rolls up in a bottle and looks like a baseball cap or not, makes sense for both 'them and 'us.
That nice picture of all the people on bicycles smiling and having a nice commute up there. Most dutch people using bikes don't really consider themselves as 'Cyclists', just people using a bike to get from A to B. It's easier and quicker than walking, cheaper and more convenient than a Bus/tram, better than using a car.
Oh, how we could live!
The use of collapsing plastic constructs seems to offer the most potential for progress in liners in the short run, but heirarchical material research is the promise for the future.
But they don't exist yet, the only thing that comes close is the Smith helmets system and that has been shown to have poorer performance than EPS.
Feel free to quote the bit where it says EPS is the best for single impact attenuation because I couldn’t find it.
You can gain that insight by reading about the properties of the other materials, for example - EPP causes the head to rebound more in a crash. Meaning that it doesn't crumple and stop the head still - instead the brain will end up getting bounced around more.
For me and my long narrow head, I get bad headaches if I tighten the webbing up enough to make me feel that it’s secure enough to not fall off in a crash. I’ve taken to loosening it off for climbs and then hoping I remember to tighten it up for descents. If it’s a long descent I have to just leave it loose and hope for the best.
I have the same problem - the thing to do is to try on a lot of different manufacturers - for me Troy Lee and 6D fit the best.
Bell are 3d printing motorcycle helmets to fit your head, I don't think it will be too long before we see this tech in bicycle helmets btw.
@Bez fair enuff but I still think current mtb helmets are far and away better than most other helmets I wear.
@seadog101 you are spot on there. My (Dutch) mother in law recently won a gift voucher in a raffle for a local cycle shop. I asked her what she was going to buy with it and she said " oh I'm giving it to Walter (her son) he's a cyclist" but you're a cyclist too! I said and she replied "oh no I just cycle to work or to the shops..or to meet my friends...."
I reckon she does 100 miles a week! Probably more than most on here!
I sometimes use my road bike to run errands and go places and use a road helmet and I still wouldn't wear that for commuting.
I've got a full face helmet with a large break away peak and I for one wouldn't want to ride that helmet with that peak which is fixed.