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I think there's a significant part of the idea of "personal preference" that some people are just not getting.
FTFY.
It's just that Njee was so confident he could follow Graham thought I would join in too!!
I've seen Graham's results, so my comment was based on a little bit of evidence rather than pure cocky speculation.
What makes you so sure you're quicker than me?
I can see Molgips point about a longer/flatter road/fireroad vs a steep technical trail, but at least in the ones I've encountered that's not what happens, that's a by-product of the local topography and trail network after all!
True - I've only done one TQ, most of my experience in this area comes from Polarises which are usually done in significantly different terrain. You find yourself faced with 90 mins remaining and a choice of going around or over a mountain.. 🙂
I've seen your results and I specifically mentioned technical trails. And I only need to drop you enough so that you can't follow me and would need to navigate, all perfectly possible. So I stand by my statement.
Once you get good at it you don't even need to stop you just slow down a little or read it on the road sections and try and commit it to memory
I'd advise against this, having taken out my then fiance on a descent whilst trying to read the map. Luckily she still married me (3 weeks later)and we still got second despite bleeding profusely and a distinctly icy silence for the next hour.
The dress was long enough to cover the scars on her legs at least 🙂
I've seen your results and I specifically mentioned technical trails. And I only need to drop you enough so that you can't follow me and would need to navigate, all perfectly possible. So I stand by my statement.
Yeah, so ya boo sucks to you njee.
I think there's a significant part of the idea of a "challenge" that some people are just not getting.
Oh it wasnt directed at you Graham, dont worry I'm not out to join the trailquester-witch-hunt mob that are after you on here!
Personally I would be interested in trying a trailquest type thing but I dont think there are any in my area (Essex), although if anyone reading this knows of one near here then please say! It could be a good way for me to learn some navigation skills as I regularly get lost finding my way out of the local tesco metro.
Well that's told me, suffice to say I shalln't be coming on one with you and risk being abandoned on a fireroad as you ride off into the sunset 🙄
If the dates work out I'd happily try one on the Surrey Hills (open minded fellow as I am) where I know the terrain, take as much of the map reading element out of it as possible, and just ride! I'm not too sure the 'promoters' of TQs have done anything at all good for the image whatsoever, quite the opposite in fact, but hey ho!
Njee no different than what you said here
I've seen Graham's results, so my comment was based on a little bit of evidence rather than pure cocky speculation. What makes you so sure you're quicker than me?
As a previous overall winner of Singletrack Classic Weekender and the reigning National Mountain Bike Orienteering Champion I did not want to get into the specifics of why it is likely I would drop you but as you insist....
On a more positive note. I'm glad you are going to try one out. 🙂
I thought exactly what You thought before I tried one, so I know where you are coming from. Hopefully you will enjoy it. A lot of the local xc racers in and around the peak district use the Dark and White Events as training. Now that some of them have been doing it more regularly e.g Oli Holmes, Darren Alexander Team CNP/Orbea they have started to get some good results more regularly. In fact Darren won the Dark and White Winter League this year.
I also wondered if we'd got a bit overly racey and so put people off. Might get a few more people into mens but where trailquests could do with more poeple coming through are womens, mixed and generation classes.
Despite the competative talk the events I've been to are socialable, yes there is bike and map talk but its a bike and map event. If it was a race there'd be bike and course talk so its not anymore nerdy than any other mountain biking competion.
MidlandTrailquestsGraham - Member
Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?
If I was you, I'd get in quick and pretend this was a joke too.
I did not want to get into the specifics of why it is likely I would drop you but as you insist...
Is a MTB orienteering champ faster than an Expert XC racer I wonder?
Oh and btw all this 'I'm faster than you' rubbish from the TQers is just making the sport look even lamer I'm afraid 🙂
Oh stop all the willy waving.
What a bunch of tossers. I'm faster than you FFS - for what its worth my money is on njee - cocky young fella he may be but I believe he is a decent real racer.
D Faff Master - you are not helping at all - making trailquests look like a playground for egotistical plonkers - make it even less attractive FFS with your posturing.
FWIW njee isn't cocky irl 🙂
As a previous overall winner of Singletrack Classic Weekender and the reigning National Mountain Bike Orienteering Champion I did not want to get into the specifics of why it is likely I would drop you but as you insist...
Pah! A loaf of Soreen, a couple of haribo and I'd blow your mind with my electric pace*...
*Electric pace, as in a milk-float.
Well done guys, you seem to have painted a picture of typical trailquestors as single, egotistical, forest dwelling outcasts with no idea how to interact with wider society. You probably do military re-enactments too
Oooh, do they do military re-enactments too? That sounds properly ace. A Trail Quest thing with chain mail and halberds and stuff. Or are you just making that up?
That STW endomondo thing is pants. Most of the riders who are on it are commuters. Those of us who ride on hills for recreation don't get a look in. Chris Lever is exempt however seeing as he did really well at 10UTB and is a bit of a riding god. Did I mention I finished second behind him in March? And I'm bigger and heavier than MTG so I must be brilliant at trailquests. Not that I'd ever do one. They sound about as interesting as connecting my nads to the mains.
[b][i]A challenge to make people think trailquesting is lame.[/i][/b]
You nailed it.
I'm sure Graham won't mind me mentioning this as I know he has a sense of humour.
The great trail quester got lost at the HONC, which is a way marked route, he also had a GPS..
In fairness he did put in a good time, on his improvised course. 😉
Graham, and any other TQers, instead of this extremely poor attempt which seems to have alienated rather more people than it has attracted, why not take the time to explain things?
Tell us about the best TQ you did, explain why you did well, point out the options in navigation, show us the rookie mistakes, show us how the experienced riders do it, top tips, navigational hints and so on.
Tell us why you like it instead of telling us we are stupid because we don't.
Chainreaction halibuts - no far to realistic its wizard fun 😉 why do you think there are so many trolls.
[i]"Tell us why you like it instead of telling us we are stupid because we don't."[/i]
Where have I done that ?
I started [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-dont-you-ride-trailquests ]one thread[/url] as a serious attempt to get some feedback to see how we could attract more entrants.
I then started this one as a bit of a wind up and got a few bites. 😉
I've tried to answer specific questions where I can.
I know from poking around on your website that you may just be writing some kind of article for a well known publication; look at it as practice. I know how to ride a bike, I know how to ride a bike fast, I know how to read a map, tell me about how you do it so well, or not so well...
I'm not going to start a third trailquesting thread in two weeks.
I'll add a few tips here as I think of them.
First one;
Always be aware of the time and distance remaining.
OS maps are divided in to 1km squares.
If you can maintain 30km/h on a flat road, you can cross one square in 2 minutes.
20km/h = 3 minutes
15km/h = 4 minutes
10km/h = 6 minutes
Doing mental arithmetic while riding off road is not an exact science.
The trails don't always go straight across the squares for a start.
You can use those times as a rough guide though.
Let's say you're 6km from home with 20 minutes to go.
4km of road = 8 minutes
1.5km of farm track = 6 minutes
500m of bridleway = 3 minutes
That's 17 minutes, so you've got 3 minutes to spare.
You can now make a decision on whether it's worth diverting to get another CP if it puts you over time.
Each minute over time for the first 5 minutes costs 1 penalty point.
Each minute from 6 to 10 minutes costs 2 penalty points.
7 minutes over = (5x1)+(2X2)= 9 penalty points.
I consider those 7 minutes as my safety margin.
It's [i]always[/i] worth going over time by up to 7 minutes if it means you get an extra CP.
10 minutes over = (5x1)+(5x2) = 15 penalty points.
It's only worth going 10 minutes over if you're going to get a 20 point or higher CP.
I'll get some down for you tomorrow crikey. And I'll try to give some examples. Might use this weekends Polaris saying as I've got the map handy.
Someone explained the main rules for a successful Polaris once.
1) don't be late
2) don't be late
3) don't be late
4) if you must be late, don't be more than 10 minutes late.
Nothing quite like giving it everything for two days (and usually on naff all sleep) to see your points wiped out, or at least reduced to the level of people who had a nice pleasant tootle 🙂
Top skills for doing well at that event include being able to look at a map and assess how long it'll take to ride a bit of trail, and being able to see all the options for linking up as many checkpoints as possible. You have to decide whether or not to go for the big scores or more little scores. Best plan is to head for big scores VIA as many small scores as you can. And once you've decided, you must not faff. Don't stop for a biccie and a breather at each checkpoint, you're in a race. Your navigation must be bang on - no mistakes, no dithering, no trying to decide which hillside you're on.
TQs are the same but much shorter and much easier 🙂
Oh my God Graham!! I don't do any of that.
I just go as fast as I can and take a few risks and hope they pay off and then learn from my mistakes. Very different tactics. I like the fact that it has the potential to go Pete Tong and I'm desperately trying to finish within the time limit to save my points.
Flip - I was just going to put its handy if you understand how you ride. Look at your current rides get a feel for what the map looks like for whats on the ground. I dont do funny calculations I kind of just go off gut feel.
Someone explained the main rules for a successful Polaris once.1) don't be late
2) don't be late
3) don't be late
4) if you must be late, don't be more than 10 minutes late.
Nah the best polaris advice is eat, eat, eat, eat.
Yeah, I suppose I wouldn't normally go in to that much detail while riding.
I use the 2 minute per km rule for the road sections, but the off road bits are more guesswork.
I keep the 7 and 10 minute buffers in mind though. Once you've gone over 10 minutes late, you're in to 5 penalty points per minute. You need to get at least one high score CP to make that worth while, it's rarely worth it.
Use a speedo or GPS in km.
Say you come out on to a road at a junction, so you know exactly where you are.
The bridleway you want is almost 2 squares on the map away.
You've done 26.5km so far.
You should reach the bridleway at about 28.3km.
No need to search for it all the way then, get your head down and sprint up to 28km, then start scanning the hedgeline for the sign.
If the CP is on a bridge over a stream and you're still going down hill, you haven't got to it yet.
If you're going up hill, you've gone past it.
m not going to start a third trailquesting thread in two weeks.
I'll add a few tips here as I think of them.First one;
Always be aware of the time and distance remaining.
OS maps are divided in to 1km squares.
If you can maintain 30km/h on a flat road, you can cross one square in 2 minutes.
20km/h = 3 minutes
15km/h = 4 minutes
10km/h = 6 minutesDoing mental arithmetic while riding off road is BORING AS HELL Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
And doing multiple laps of MM or BBF isn't ?
What's BBF? If you are talking about 24 hour events they yes they appear boring, although I've never done one I heard that what they lack in excitement they make up for in atmosphere. Although I'm a sceptic.
Downhill racing and fell running are the sports that have appealed more to me. Both require fitness, technical ability, a degree of recce, but in the end you are pitted against your rivals over the same course (either head to head or TT) and best man wins.
OK, I've gravitated towards the more extreme end of both running and mtb but I'd sooner do a LDWA event than go on a trail-quest.
I bet you are getting fed up of people telling you how crap they think it is now!
[url= http://www.darkandwhite.co.uk/routebrowser/RouteBrowser.htm ]Dark and White's route browser thing[/url] is a bit of map geekery that shows peoples routes for some of the trailquests in the Peak. 2011 Hope event is probably a good start point as I'm guessing more people will have ridden here than anywhere else in the Peak. Its works off java, browswer shows the routes, gadget shows the map better but doesnt show the routes for everyone. The maps are filed by event in gadget - round 4 is Hope.
To get geeky with the browser select the class and then a competitor. The route as the crow flies will show up. Click on the red arrow between the two checkpoints and it'll give you nerd stats down the right hand side of the page. Distances are crow flies but shows speed, choice of next checkpoint etc. Cant really make that bit more exciting but gives you an idea of how people put things together.
Graham's invitation to a dropping kind of is and isnt the best way to learn. Perhaps a less antagonistic apporach or running some form of demo event - think the STW weekender polaris bit might just fit the bill.
OK, I've gravitated towards the more extreme end of both running and mtb but I'd sooner do a LDWA event than go on a trail-quest.
Ooooof that's harsh. Long Distance Walkers Association for those wondering what an LDWA is.
Unfortunately trying to describe trialquests makes them sound worse than they are.
BBF = Bristol Bike Fest (Where I finished 21st/87 overall on a single speed since you ask and, more importantly, beat KingTut)
I did an evening lanequest (MORE LIKE LAMEQUEST AMIRITE!!1!) tonight on the road bike.
It was good. Not done anything like it in ages. Mapboards are still stupid though, and only good for leaning on in a pseudo TT aero position. SPD-SLs are awful for clipping into and out of - you never notice this on a normal ride 😉 I had to stop and confirm a grid reference at one junction on my edge 500 - the map detail didn't quite add up. took me about 30 seconds...
I got all controls (30 in 2 hours) 50.4km, and was 30 SECONDS LATE so 2 points knocked off 👿
Here's a thought for you. Instead of threatening to rag people's legs off, why not organise an informal TQ master class on a free weekend. Set up a few mock checkpoints, go for a nice group ride with tea and cake stops and pass on some of your expertise?
I'd be far more likely to do something like that and maybe do a TQ for real afterwards. Or a Cake Quest...
BBF = Bristol Bike Fest (Where I finished 21st/87 overall on a single speed since you ask and, more importantly, beat KingTut)
But in fairness, I had done sod all training in fact the last long ride I had done before the BBF was The HONC (remember the one where you got lost) and to my credit I rode up all the climbs on every lap, I recall a certain vegan rider pushing his bike up one of the climbs on his first lap, I also didn't realise we were racing each other. 😉
That said, you did get a fine result.
BWD +1
There's also a bit too much willy-waving going on here for my liking.