[Closed] A challenge for all those who think trailquesting is lame.

people don't want to do it. as for trying to follow you, why don't you try to follow someone in a race. perhaps because you don't want to which is fair enough. sorry, but you have come across as a fool on this occasion.

What's a blow-hard ?

What do you think?

I always find it a little strange when people post on a forum thread to explain that they have no interest in the thread topic.

So?

[i]"why don't you try to follow someone in a race"[/i]
I generally try to stay ahead of, or overtake, other people in races.

Up until these recent threads, I had never done a trailquest because I had no idea what it was all about. In future I'll not do trailquests, but with a full understanding of why.

So thank you.

I always find it a little strange when people post on a forum thread to explain that they have no interest in the thread topic

3F makes a fair comment. This thread has moved away from publicising TQs and on to the general topic of trying to persuade other people to do something...

I've kind of lost where the thread has gone now.
I started it as a bit of a joke, then a lot of people who take me far more seriously than I take myself, joined in.

I'm off out now to get some miles in before dark.
The irony of that is that dozens of mountain bikers will have driven down here to ride round the Wyre Forest today.
I live [b]in[/b] the Wyre Forest and I'll be heading off to the surrounding lanes and bridleways.

Up until these recent threads, I had never done a trailquest because I had no idea what it was all about. In future I'll not do trailquests, but with a full understanding of why.

So thank you.

The STW ear does not seem to be at our disposal regarding trailquests, but it doesn't hurt to put a link up 🙂
[Im not involved with organising these but have done a few and enjoyed them]

Met couple who are organising the Yarrow valley one at Polaris definatley no marins, no tracksters. Think its the first one they've organised but sounds like they've put a lot of thought and effort into it and going off they're Peak route choice its going to be more technical than tarmac.

hang on, i've just had an idea...

my ideas are usually rubbish, so don't get your expectations up.

here it is:

MTG / other trailquest organisers; how about identifying which checkpoints would yield the most fun riding?

"there may be 20 checkpoints, but numbers 2,4,7,8,10,12,15,17 have some really nice trails/views"

or "approach cp2 from the east for the best descent - swoopy singletrack ahoy!"

that kind of thing.

I like Werther's Originals, might have to give trailquesting a go! 😛

As Winston Churchill (might have) said:

Try everything once, except incest, morris dancing and trailquests.

no thanks, I cant imagine anything would ruin the flow of my ride more than flipping trailquesting... on another note, are there any non mtb trailquests, for walkers and the like? You might have an easier time persuading them to sling a leg over a bike than you would persuading most mtb'ers that trailquesting isnt dull and geeky...

So...
If you ignore those who missed the joke in the first post...
And all those who pretended they missed the joke because they like to get all offended and indignant on the internet...
And ignore those who clicked on a thread on a mountain bike forum with the word "challenge" in the title, then got outraged that the challenge would involve pedalling hard while trying to keep up with another rider...
...there's some interesting replies.
You've only got to look at the [url= http://www.endomondo.com/challenges/1664807 ]Endomondo Challenge[/url] to see that STW is not the ideal place to recruit mountain bikers who like riding long distances and entering competitions. There's less than 20 people logging 50+km a week.

Awhiles, organisers will generally mark things like "hoofy", muddy" or "busy road" on the map to help with route choice.
If you're a beginner and not taking the competitive aspect too seriously, I'm sure they would give some advice on the most scenic route or the most fun trails.

MTG / other trailquest organisers; how about identifying which checkpoints would yield the most fun riding?

This was the type of thing the Yarrow Valley people were talking about dont know if they're doing it for this one or not.

For beginners the answer is probably that and spliting into two cats - fun and sports. Fun you get a timed map and timed route sort bit on top of the event time - say five mins just to speed people along you loose a point for every minute over the route sort time you loiter around. Other end give people fun people a plus point for every minute they come in early in the last fifteen mins of the event time.

I never tried a trailquest till earlier this year, thinking it was a bit lame, but thought I would give it a go as the event was round the corner and use it as training for other endurance races.

It was fantastic fun, blasting round the hillside, riding tracks that I never had before and racing others although you had no idea how well you were doing. I was a little all brawn and no brain, with a poorly chosen route and stupidly not understanding how the dibber worked so had to return to a check point later once I had worked it out, still did pretty well for my first time out.

I will definitely do another one, sadly the other end of the country for this one. It's a good way to explore the terrain and be as competitive as you like. I would say for those that don't like to race there something and for those who do, just set off at top speed and treat it like a race, try and prove the 'nerdy' trailquesters wrong; although, like me you probably will still be piped to the post by someone that can plan a route!

So would totally agree with Graham, give it ago, although disagree that Endomondo is a reflection of anything, I am at the lower end of that, but only because I do most of my miles on the road and rest up between races or do sprint work.

Here's a general, constructive question. Do trailquests allow in kids / juniors (My son is 9) ?
I fancied taking him on a local trailquest; just for the ride as much as anything else, but also an opportunity to build his map reading skills. I got a very unhelpful reply from a local organiser basically pointing me to a rubbish document that was more vague than anything. So is there a general restriction on under 16s? What about your event? cheers.

The Scottish MBO ones I've done are very family friendly - there's a generational category for dads / mums and kids etc and there's also a junior category. Seen one bloke riding a tagalong with a very young kid, other kids are older and riding with their das, some teenagers doing it by themselves etc.

Probably depends on the organiser - no idea why family entry wouldn't be a clear cut yes for any local trailquest, but I'm not an organiser.

From the [url= http://www.midlandtrailquests.co.uk/trailquesting/classes.php ]MTQ website[/url];
[i]"Riders under 12 may not ride our events and riders between 12 & 16 must be part of a Generation Team (partnered by a rider over 18). Note that where league events apply, riders must have attained these ages on or before the date of the first event in the league."[/i]
I think there was a case recently where someone wanted to bring an under 12 with them and it was allowed.
Contact the organiser of the event you're interested in and it should be possible to work something out.

Cows in cars, all my cycling is done on a mountain bike. I realise that a lot of other mountain bikers also ride a road bike, so their mileage doesn't show up on that Endomondo challenge.
I just find it unusual how few people take part out of the hundreds who post on here.
I guess, as has been discussed elsewhere, it's because some people see mountain biking as a sport, whereas others see it as a leisure activity and have no interest in how they compare with other riders.

I guess, as has been discussed elsewhere, it's because some people see mountain biking as a sport, whereas others see it as a leisure activity and have no interest in how they compare with other riders.

Nope - its because the format of a trailquest is neither fish nor fowl. its not a race where you don't have to think about route and you are in a crowd, its not navigating your way with your mates to some great trails.

Many people have tried to explain its lack of appeal to you. I am a map geek, I am a mountain biker who loves to explore. I have done a few races. I have even done a bit of orienteering many years ago. However the format of these events simply looks lame to me and has no appeal at all.

I would be prepared to give a TQ a go, would be interested to know how much of your position would be down to fitness and how much down to map reading?

My map ready is OK, I think, the thought of riding the same bit of trail repeatidly because I can't find the turn Im looking for does not appeal.

Im not fast XC wise but can bimble along for a few hours no problem, the idea of being beat by someone purely because he could read a map better than me does not appeal.

Would also take issue with the Endomondo challenge comment, Im a cyclist first and hence enjoy all types of riding, Im on the list but have (as I assume is correct) only uploaded 'off road' rides, which at this time of year (TT season) can drop off a bit.

I just find it unusual how few people take part out of the hundreds who post on here.
I guess, as has been discussed elsewhere, it's because some people see mountain biking as a sport, whereas others see it as a leisure activity and have no interest in how they compare with other riders.

It's not necessarily that they have no interest in how they compare to other riders, it's that clocking up stats on how many miles you do and being competitive about them is of no interest.

I just find it unusual how few people take part out of the hundreds who post on here.

Doesn't seem at all strange to me. There's a certain mentality required to diligently log rides (even if all you have to do is turn a phone on and press a couple of buttons) and it's not one that most people possess. The vast majority of people ride for fun, how far/fast is of zero interest to them.

My map ready is OK, I think, the thought of riding the same bit of trail repeatidly because I can't find the turn Im looking for does not appeal.

Doesnt usually happen so long as you're paying attention.

Im not fast XC wise but can bimble along for a few hours no problem, the idea of being beat by someone purely because he could read a map better than me does not appeal.

I'd say its more about interpreting the map and choosing the route than navigating round it that makes a difference. It probably takes a couple events to get a feel for the tactics bit.

Anoyingly for me - because I cant - things like running mounts and dismounts from the bike can make a difference. Might only be 10 secs every time you get on or off the bike but it can get to minutes very quickly. You want to be moving or beeping (punching in at a checkpoint) everything else is faffing.

I guess, as has been discussed elsewhere, it's because some people see mountain biking as a sport, whereas others see it as a leisure activity and have no interest in how they compare with other riders.

Nope - its because the format of a trailquest is neither fish nor fowl. its not a race where you don't have to think about route and you are in a crowd, its not navigating your way with your mates to some great trails.

This, totally. I enjoy racing hugely, no offence Graham but I'm very confident I could ride around on your wheel for 3 hours, and indeed I've considered doing one on the Surrey Hills a few times. The issue I have is that to do well you have to ride the boring trails - roads and fireroad is faster, so people (certainly on the ones I've seen around me) end up taking fast, but immensely dull, fireroads to make up the time. Where's the fun in that!?

You've said yourself that you've been surprised by how quick XC racers are, this seems a little bit of a niche in which you can excel, belittle other people (you can now say AAAAAH, got you, it was a joke, but the fact is you come across as a bit of an idiot here) and be good, whilst not really being a very good racer!

Not my cuppa, but I'm sure you will encourage more people to give it a go.

Good luck 🙂

, then got outraged that the challenge would involve pedalling hard while trying to keep up with another rider...

You seem to have missed the point of your other thread which is that people are put off TQs or more snappily named MTBO events not because they think they're not physically challenging, but because they think they have all the charismatic allure of a 1970s three-piece suite in beige velour with a dusting of dog hairs and a crusty coating of congealed Angel Delight spills...

I would be prepared to give a TQ a go, would be interested to know how much of your position would be down to fitness and how much down to map reading?

It's a mix of course. And map-reading for these purposes is of a slightly different flavour to simple trail finding, if you want to do it well. It's definitely a specific skill.

roads and fireroad is faster, so people (certainly on the ones I've seen around me) end up taking fast, but immensely dull, fireroads to make up the time. Where's the fun in that!?

It can be fun because it's against the clock. And if the course is well set it'll be a toss-up between a much further fire-road or road route and a shorter but technical/steep bridleway.. so you have to gamble, and your legs determine if you win or lose.

You've said yourself that you've been surprised by how quick XC racers are, this seems a little bit of a niche in which you can excel, belittle other people (you can now say AAAAAH, got you, it was a joke, but the fact is you come across as a bit of an idiot here) and be good, whilst not really being a very good racer!

I think this is fair comment njee - better articulated before your edit, but still, TQs are a way to do a competitive event without having racing fitness. The decline of XC racing, shrinking of fields etc means there's no room for the fatties any more. Things like TQs offer a gently competitive alternative to the weekend ride which seems an appealing feature to me. 99% of mTBers don't have the legs to do an XC race, so the more event options the better.

[i]"There's a certain mentality required to diligently log rides..."[/i]
and
[i]"...it's that clocking up stats on how many miles you do and being competitive about them is of no interest."[/i]

Yes, I'm just surprised at how few people on STW do it.
If you look at www.fetcheveryone.com a running site, and click on anyone's profile, there's a list of all their PBs for every distance they have run. There's also a [url= http://www.fetcheveryone.com/training-mileagetargets.php?category=BIKE ]page where people can set an annual mileage target[/url]and keep track of how far ahead or behind they are.
If you look on [url= http://sugdenbarbell.co.uk/forum ]Sugden Barbell[/url] a weightlifting forum, then look underneath anyone's avatar, you'll see a list of lifting PBs.
That's the good thing about mountain biking though, isn't it.
Running and weightlifting are generally goal orientated, whereas mountain biking can be commuting, racing, recreational, exercise or any combination.

[i]"I cant imagine anything would ruin the flow of my ride more than flipping trailquesting..."[/i]
Looking at my GPS logs, I typically spend 15 - 20 minutes stationary during a 3 hour event. No forum ride I've ever been on has come anywhere near that level of "flow".

[i]"no offence Graham but I'm very confident I could ride around on your wheel for 3 hours"[/i]
I'm sure you, and a lot of other people could.
I still can't believe people are taking my original post so deadly serious.
Look at the ACU's [url= http://www.armycyclingunion.co.uk/AYTE/index.htm ]Are You Tough Enough[/url] event.
I mean, what sort of a way is that to advertise a bike race, implying that you're too soft to even finish the course. They'll never get anyone to enter like that.

[i]"...you have to ride the boring trails - roads and fireroad is faster..."[/i]

Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

I just want to point out that the OP finds some Cannock Chase man made climbs difficult terrain.

"...you have to ride the boring trails - roads and fireroad is faster..."

Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

Scotland?

I still can't believe people are taking my original post so deadly serious.

Ah, the "only joking!" defence. Tried, tested and generally found wanting 🙂

mountain biking can be commuting, racing, recreational, exercise or any combination.

Yes indeed. Different things to different people. Are you getting it yet?

I'm just surprised at how few people on STW do it.

Why are you surprised?

[i]"Scotland?"[/i]
[b]Midland[/b] Trailquests. The clue's in the name. 😉

Midland Trailquests. The clue's in the name

You asked about the UK. It was only 14 minutes ago, surely you remember?

MidlandTrailquestsGraham

Where in [b]the UK [/b]can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

🙄

another one who thinks UK and England are synonyms

I mean, what sort of a way is that to advertise a bike race, implying that you're too soft to even finish the course. They'll never get anyone to enter like that.

Yes they will, because it's a good event on a good waymarked course, and although the promoter appears on here periodically he's not 'challenging' people to ride around following him for the duration.

Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

Well I can do a ride around the Surrey Hills with perhaps 10% road/fireroad, but you miss the point, which was more that there is some fantastic singletrack, which if one wanted to be competitive in an event such as this you would avoid and take an adjacent fireroad. That doesn't appeal, I don't want to be penalised for taking a more fun route - why not just road race?

I can see Molgips point about a longer/flatter road/fireroad vs a steep technical trail, but at least in the ones I've encountered that's not what happens, that's a by-product of the local topography and trail network after all!

Whilst MTG is not endearing himself to everyone, I'd still like to point out that the one and only time I have done one of these trailquests I enjoyed myself immensely.

I'm not sure I'd travel far to do one, but the one I did in the Peak District was a great way of making some fairly average and easy trails a mental and physical challenge. I've not enjoyed MTBing as much since riding in Spain, since most UK riding is simply not as much fun as big mountains and endless downhills. For that reason I try and find ways of spicing up my local trails, be it sessioning some jumps or technical climbs. Trailquest seems as good a way as any of doing that and MTG is right in that it is no less "flowy" than your typical group ride.

But he still needs to accept that some people just don't want to try it 😀

Njee I'm confident I'd drop you no problem if you were following me, first technical trail and I'd leave you standing.

I play to my strengths on Trailquests and usually take the shorter more technical option than a possibly faster longer road section. It's this choice that means it is very accessible to everyone who can read a map and who is interested in exploring trails.

Once you've done a few you then start developing the specific skills of efficient route choice, pacing/timing, calculating risk (ie is it worth coming back late and receiving penalty points but getting a high scoring control), too much risk = loose points, not enough = could have scored more.

I've moved from XC racing to Trailquesting and now prefer it. I am no slower than I use to be and probably a bit faster. It is only recently that I have developed the skills mentioned above to such a degree that I am now able to put my full fitness and technical ability to use.

Also if I have a bad ride I still have the added bonus that I have often ridden in an area totally new to me and now can instantly pick out a good ride to do again in the future.

I got fed up of riding around doing short laps in XC races. Which is why I now mainly do events such as the TransWales, Black Mountain 3 days, Polaris, Trailquests and bikepacking tours such as the Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail etc. All events that have a sense of adventure to them as well as just out and out racing. I'd do more adventure races as well if I did not find running so painful!!

It's not a problem if you're not intrested in them I wasn't either. But be aware that they can become quite addictive and they are actually very social because after the event you will spend a good amount of time comparing routes/trail knowledge and seeing what worked best.

[url= http://www.bmbo.org.uk/calendar/details.php?event_id=180 ]National Champs[/url] are up in the Lakes this year in September if you fancy giving it a go. Should be plenty of technical riding and probably the opportunity afterwards to compare splits both uphill and downhill. Another good event is the one based at the [url= http://www.bmbo.org.uk/calendar/details.php?event_id=156 ]Malham Show[/url] in August

Njee I'm confident I'd drop you no problem if you were following me, first technical trail and I'd leave you standing.

love the modesty lol! this forum is fantastic 😆

It's just that Njee was so confident he could follow Graham thought I would join in too!! 😛

Forgot to say you can ride all these events as a pair so the 'pain' of navigating can be shared.

Once you get good at it you don't even need to stop you just slow down a little or read it on the road sections and try and commit it to memory.

[i]"love the modesty"[/i]

I think there's a significant part of the idea of a "challenge" that some people are just not getting.

Graham. I think it is great you are trying to promote the sport. I enjoyed riding against some of the Midlands riders at the Polaris at the weekend. I'd love to see more of them come up and try the national event or the national league.

Just read about the GPS system the midlands events are considering. I like the fact that it would be able to spot any cheating. There was a lot of people taking short cuts on footpaths at the Polaris last weekend 😕