[Closed] 6lb steel frames...

say please

give 3 examples of 6lb steel frames

I bought a voodoo wanga frame, that weighed 2.7kg with the dropouts.

OP - I was going to buy a new hardtail frame (steel) but like you couldn't get my head around the weight. I spent the money on a s/h titanium frame instead and I'm very pleased I did! 🙂

Light frames can break, heavier frames are perhaps less likely to break (although Ive broken a couple of 6lb steel frames)

Although I imagine most of the people who own them on here use them for xc mincing.

Are you thinking of any particular frame? It's fairly easy for a frame made of cheaper steel to be nudging 6lbs. So to explain...in these cases, it's a cost/price thing.

My Ragley Blue Pig frame weighs 5.5lbs, doesn't feel it though, climbs well and descends like it's on rails. Wouldn't XC race it, but other than that nothing not to like.

My blender weighs the same as a small family hatchback.......but its rad..

Horses for courses. Innit.

My Balfa Minuteman was 7-1/2lbs of rad-core-steelness... I still cracked it 😈

You should try a .243 raceing 'SL' frame, in their defence there were 2 heavier versions ahead of it but it was about 8lb!

As for the OP, why would you buy a 4lb aluminium frame (or a 6lb one for that matter)? I mean carbon and titanium are sooooo much lighter? Or maybe, just maybe theres more to steel frames than a weight, maybe its a 'feel' thing, or maybe its that steels easier to make in small batches so nicer less mainstreem bikes get made from it.

Or maybe you're just trolling.

my DB Alpine frame weighs.... er.... doesn't matter. i know the complete bike weighs 15.2kg, but it is built for throwing down mountains, not jey-boying around the woods behind swindon....

^5.5lbs

Think this badboy is about 6lbs of finest gas pipe.

[img] [/img]

Still enjoying riding it though 8)

A well specced build based on a well designed 6lb frame can feel better than a poorly specced build on a 3lb Ti frame.

6lb steel frames I don't get it. Explain it to me.

Don't be a cheap ass tight wad and only buy a cheap steel frame. The nice ones weight much less than that!

my bonty is around the 4.5lb mark?

takisawa2 - Member
A well specced build based on a well designed 6lb frame can feel better than a poorly specced build on a 3lb Ti frame.

This.

I've just sold a Lynskey ti frame for £600 just didn't like it. A mk1 steel PA felt just so much nicer at a tenth of the price. Who'd have thunk it. The PA - solid, softer more compliant ride, better tracking IMO. The Ti456 felt skittery and nervous, and a much harsher ride. Just my view on what works for me.

I have a Evil sovereign it is a little on the heavy side, which does slow me down on the ups... but it does give you confidence in the downy bits. swings and roundabouts really. second bike is a Rock Lobster Team Tig, only 1.5Kg frame, perfect for riding with the old man on the roads.

my blue pig frame is probably around 6lbs, it's bloody brilliant.

climbs well too.

& I thought my Fleet custom fillet brazed Tange Prestige job was heavy at 4.75lbs! I't's been to Chamonix & didn't break even with my fat ar$e on it!
Either I ride like a tart or some people are riding shoddy frames! (& it aint the former)

My Humming Bird is just under 6lbs with a the EBB - doesnt feel it though, its built into a 27lbs bike and i've owned heavier and lighter bikes in the past which havent ridden as well.
[img] [/img]

Inbred 29er not far off 6lbs for the frame. Superb riding bike when built up.

My Sov is built up with a Hammerschitch, a dropper and comes in at 30lbs..... for some it would be pointless but for me it is quite simply awesome.

A lightweight HT with a steep head angle and a light build would be pointless for me and IMHO isn't faster xc racing than a 100mm travel rig so really doesn't make sense.

Each to their own huh....

Any bike is a good bike if you get out and enjoy it.... bling sat in the garage is the most pointless of all..

Any bike is a good bike if you get out and enjoy it.... bling sat in the garage is the most pointless of all.

common sense on singletrack!

*looks out of window for flying pigs or a horned deity from the underworld commuting to work on a snowplough*

mbnut has been around a long time so is very wise 😉

My sovereign weighs a ton. The spot on geometry and the fact that I doubt I will ever break it makes up for it.

A lot of folk on here seem to fall into the xc mincer, trail rider category, so heavy steel frame is pointless if you are not ragging the shit out of it.

Fun is the enjoyment of pleasure and, according to Johan Huizinga, "an absolutely primary category of life, familiar to everybody at a glance right down to the animal level."[1] Fun may be encountered in many human activities during work, social functions, recreation and play, and even seemingly mundane activities of daily living. The distinction between enjoyment and fun is difficult to articulate but real,[2] fun being a more spontaneous, playful, or active event. The perception of time is shortened when one is "having fun"

From Wikipedia

I currently have an alu mmmbop, alu Garyu Fisher Big Sur, and an alu Pitch Pro.

I just fancied steel. However, I remember a time when Tange Prestige and Columbus True Temper and Reynolds frames weighing less than 5lbs were cheaper and more widely available. Now it seems they are all porky 6lb'ers. Though if the blue pig is just 5.5lbs for an 18in I might still include it in my possible list - since I like the mmmbop so much...

Anyone have a Sanderson Blitz 18in on the scale?

Why do steel frames need to be 6lbs? I still don't get it. 5 to 5.5lbs would still surely build a steel frame stronger than a 4lb aluminium one?

I just can't reconcile aftermarket and boutique (albeit at the lower end) with 6lbs of weight.

what boutique frames are you lookin at that are 6lbs steel beasts?

wtf is boutique?

I said the lower end of boutique and so I was referring to Blue Pig, Blitz etc., which I percieve to be low end boutique. But you can supplant boutique with just plain old aftermarket.

i got a nice light 6lb steel frame as i get tired peddling my 9.5lb frame around all day

edit: hardtail is 5.5 and the FS is 9.3, ive been told a million times not to exaggerate. if you put them together they weigh as much as me.

van cough cough - Member

I don't get it. Explain it to me.

Simple- not everyone trusts, likes the look of, or can afford carbon fibre 😉

been riding a 7.8lb steel frame today.. my back hurts 😳

i was out in the mud this morning on my Evil Sov, 6+lbs but who cares, didn't feel any different
from last week riding my 2012 heckler,

weight just isn't an issue, but was smiling a hole lot more today than last weekend on the SC

wtf is boutique?

Boutique = add ££££ for low production run frames made in the same factories as all the other mass production run frames but in different colours with cool stickers...

didn't feel any different
from last week riding my 2012 heckler,

or what

I suspect the CEN regulations are a factor for many
Though some (eg cotic) seem to have barely added any weight pre/post CEn introduction

CEN has made it more difficult to design lighterweight steel frames (especially if you're not already using high strength tube sets...853,supertherm,presige etc).I think the testing procedure does'nt favour steel particularly well.I know orange had a rough time trying to get the new P7 certified and be a sensible weight (which it definately is'nt).
I've just swapped back from a 3.7lb scandal to a 5.6lb steel unit......the unit is SOO much nicer.

I know this thread ended a month ago but I'm hoping you might have some advise. I have a 6lb NS Surge frame(pictured). I think it's too heavy but I can't complain when the frame was only £250 new. The whole bike is around 33lb. I'm going to look into some lighter forks which should hopefully bring the weight down but on the whole I love the bike.

My main problem is the sluggish feeling when riding, there seems to be a substantial amount of rolling resistance. So much that I've put holly rollers(replacing high rollers) on which helped but leave me lacking a lot of grip.

There is no dragging from the brakes which got me thinking that it might be that the hope pro 2 hubs need a lighter grease or just more bedding in.

Do you think it's simply a weight issue or something else I haven't thought of? Friends on 20 year old raleigh beasts can out roll me!

Any advise would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
[IMG] [/IMG]

rolling = tyres & or tubes, nowt else, unless your hubs are fubared.

Blue Pig boutique?

I thought boutique was custom loveliness such as a Yates ,Mather or Enigma custom build not mass produced in the far East like the pigs are

kudos100 - Member

My sovereign weighs a ton. The spot on geometry and the fact that I doubt I will ever break it makes up for it.

But does it ride like that because it's steel? Could an alu Sov do the same job and weigh far less?

Haven't got around to building my Surge yet, but if a steel mtb has the same type of ride as a steel road bike then I can see the characteristic ride might be worth the extra weight.

sluggish feeling when riding

Could it be the slack head angle? I think they're about 66 degrees or something like that. Maybe try some shorter forks.

whatnobeer - Member

if a steel mtb has the same type of ride as a steel road bike then I can see the characteristic ride might be worth the extra weight.

Hmm. What is that characteristic ride though? Different steel bikes ride very differently... I'm assuming you mean that stereotypical steel springiness/liveliness but a heavy steel frame has a lot of metal in it, which will often end up making it pretty stiff.

Lots of chat about this in the steel full suss thread, but this idea that steel rides one way and carbon rides one way and alu rides one way, is just not right.

From Surly -

Some people have been saying that 1x1 frames are heavy. Let's compare our 1x1 frame to some "really light" frames on the market.

For the below comparison I will ignore the obvious price-to-weight ratio differences.

For the below comparison I will ignore the obvious life expectancy differences.

For the below comparison I will ignore the obvious differences in ride characteristics.

For the below comparison I will ignore the obvious differences in intended use.

Keep in mind published weights are almost always B.S.

1x1 small (16" c-t) frame weighs 4.415 lbs. on our very accurate scale.
1x1 medium (18" c-t) frame weighs 4.960 lbs. on our very accurate scale.
1x1 large (20" c-t) frame weighs 4.995 lbs. on our very accurate scale.
Merlin's medium "Standard" Ti frame weighs a "published" 3.5lbs.
Ibis's 18.5" double-butted "Ti Mojo" weighs a "published" 3lbs.
Ibis's 18.5" butted aluminum "Alibi" frame weighs a "published" 4lbs.
Ibis's 18.5" double-butted cro-moly "Mojo" frame weighs a "published" 4lbs.
Ritchey's 19" P-20 frame weighs a "published" 3.4 lbs.
Wow, I guess the 1x1's ARE heavy!! But wait a minute, lightweights, racers and pretentious egomaniacs...

Again, price/weight ratio, ride characteristics, intended use, and durability aside...

If you build up a 18.5 lb. Ritchey P-20 single, you can build up a 20.06 lb. 1x1. If you build up a 18.1 lb. Ti Mojo single, you can build up a 19.66 lb. 1x1.

If you don't have a bunch of stupid-light parts and your mundane steel Ibis Mojo single weighs a whopping 24.5 pounds, your mundane, boring, stupid, heavy 1x1 single-speed bike will weigh a whopping 25.46 pounds. Waaaaah! Better get a Ti post, braaah!!

Get over it, people, the 1x1's ARE heavy, but you can still make a damn light bike out of one should you choose. Of course your Kevlarâ„¢-beaded 1.7" semi-slick tires won't look real good between those gaudy, over-manipulated chainstays, but what do we know?? And for the third time, I won't mention the RIDE, the LONGEVITY, the PRICE, or the INTENDED USE.

But does it ride like that because it's steel? Could an alu Sov do the same job and weigh far less?

I very much doubt it. It would be even harsher and still weigh loads.

I would not get too hung about the weight of a frame. If you are racing aand competative and are light yourself the start worry about weight. If you are 14st like me and not competative you have little to gain about by shaving a few lbs from your frame weight.

Also I have a couple of Pipedream frames in the shop they do not weight 6lbs. A modern P7 I think weighs about that but that because Orange have changed the P7 away from the purely XC bike that it once was. I have two old steel frames. One a Kona Lavadome/cindercone from 96 or thereabouts and another a Marin Palisades 89 single speed. Both are lighter than my Orange EVO2 single speed. It all depends on how you biuld a bike and what you plan to use it for.

well put bedmaker, for pointing out the Surly is quite light 😆

I ride bikes. I like riding bikes. I used to ride (many years ago) a very light KHS team made from steel tubing. I bended it. Replaced it with a DeKerf, which was a heavier frame, again made from steel. I rode that for about 10 years without bending it, and loved it. The current owner has had it for about three years, and loves it (and hasn't bent it).
I still ride a steel frame - a small Hummingbird. It has lovely light Magura Durins, carbon bars and seatpost and no gears.

I don't give a toss what it weighs.

It's a cracking ride. The seatpost and bars make it more comfortable, and possibly even a little lighter.

If I wanted lightweight, I'd work on the extra lard I'm carrying around myself first.

Don't sweat an extra pound or two of frame weight - worry about what it feels like to ride.

kudos100 - Member

I very much doubt it. It would be even harsher and still weigh loads.

Alu doesn't have to be harsh, it just often is- try an old Scandal frinstance, far more compliant than many (most?) modern steel frames. As for weighing loads, it'd be somewhere under 4lbs most likely for equivalent strength.

How about carbon? Save 3lbs, and lose that harshness?

Good luck making an alu frame Sovereign equivalent under 4lb. Its a bit stronger than a Scandal. And good luck finding someone who believes you to ride it

loum - Member

Good luck making an alu frame Sovereign equivalent under 4lb.

Sub-4lbs = Mmmbop, Kinesis Pha5e, Genesis Abyss... Chameleon, if it weren't for the daft EBB, IIRC. That's the first 4 that came to mind as comparisons and all in the right ballpark. Add half a pound for a Stiffee (despite ancient design) or Troof. Or, y'know, just pick some other random comparable alu hardtails and look them up.

And then, add in the fact that most owners won't get near the strength limits of any of these anyway.

I've just built an Orange Pure 7 on Pikes. Guess what? It ain't light, even on Pro2 / XC717s.

But then it wouldn't be... Pikes... Deore cranks... heavy seatpost and saddle... The list goes on.

It may well be 30-odd lbs but it rides so well. And the U-turn forks make climbing easy.

not equivalent, so not relevant

What exactly isn't equivalent about those? All bombproof long travel frames with the exact same remit as the Sov. (Also rated for more fork than Evil'll recommend you use a Sov with)

and none of them under 4lbs either

Now that's just plain wrong.

ok, just checked. mmbop 3.7lbs claimed weight. fair enough
kinesis pha5e, troof, chameleon all ~4.8
stiffee is a nice bike though (of them lot)

Alu doesn't have to be harsh, it just often is- try an old Scandal frinstance

Except they are made of scandium, scandium rides different to aluminium.

Why on earth would you want to ride a 30 lbs hardtail? I am really struggling to find a reason why.

Chameleon comes in over 4lbs because of the EBB but without it, it'd be under. Pha5e is 3.95lbs for a medium. Abyss is apparently 3.5lbs for a small.

Not going to talk about carbon? Evil reckon it makes sense for their biggest, toughest frame...

skywalker - Member

Except they are made of scandium, scandium rides different to aluminium.

Just another aluminium alloy.

Just another aluminium alloy.

That is (up to 50%) stronger, lighter (because they can use less material) and has riding characteristics similar to steel.

Nothing like 6061 or 7005 then.

skywalker - Member
Why on earth would you want to ride a 30 lbs hardtail? I am really struggling to find a reason why.

I don't think I'm the only one in this category?

Ali AND 30lbs.

[img] [/img]

slainte 😀 rob

2721.55422g

just [u]checked[/u].
kinesis pha5e, troof, chameleon all ~4.8

Good night troll.

Why on earth would you want to ride a 30 lbs hardtail? I am really struggling to find a reason why.

My 30+lb lump

[img] [/img]

Because I'm a heavy, a plough-through-it rider and want something that ain't gonna break.
I don't think I'm the only one in this category?

Ali AND 30lbs.

Because it's massive fun, confidence inspiring and I'm not racing XC with it.

Whats to say you won't have more fun on a lighter, more nimble HT, and that you would break one?

Learn to ride properly and you won't need to rely on scaffold tubed frames.

skywalker - Member
Whats to say you won't have more fun on a lighter, more nimble HT, and that you would break one?

Learn to ride properly and you won't need to rely on scaffold tubed frames.

Horses for courses. Run what you brung.

slainte 🙂 rob

skywalker some of us like to go downhill fast, not mince around trying not to puncture our flyweight tyres.

Since when did lighter=more nimble?

loum... The Pha5e weight I'm quoting is as weighed by WMB. The Mmmbop and Abyss alone prove the point though. And I mentioned the Troof as it proves there's still a big weight saving to be had (around 25%) even with a massive hoofer of a frame. So I'm really not sure what the argument is all about here tbh.

Chameleon, it turns out I'm wrong on- the weight I'd found is on the SC website but it's for the old pre-EBB one- then I'd taken off the weight of the EBB 😳

Anyway, that's probably enough of a derail- there's obviously no doubt you can make a strong frame, lighter, with alu.

skywalker - Member

That is (up to 50%) stronger, lighter (because they can use less material) and has riding characteristics similar to steel.

Aye, it's a pretty ideal choice of alu alloy really, for bikes.

Since when did lighter=more nimble?

Lighter generally always means more nimble. All else being equal, a light car or motorbike is going to be more nimble than a heavy one. Same goes with mountain bikes.

A fat dude vs a ballet dancer might be a comparison you can relate to more.

if your riding is primarily downhill a light bike is not important, the heavier bike will probably feel better, more solid, etc, etc blah blah!

rs - Member

if your riding is primarily downhill a light bike is not important

How many top-end downhill racers are on 45lb bikes?

How many top-end downhill racers are on 45lb bikes?

sorry, didn't realise top-end downhill racers used 6lb steel frames... correction then... if riding a hardtail predominantly downhill for fun, a light bike is not important... 😛