Reckon 29ers have a very short shelf life now, after reading a lot in the cycling press about 650B, think this is the new size that many manufacturers are pushing hard.
Going to stick it out for another 12 months with 26 inch wheels till these fads sort themselves out.
Who knows, it may all frazzle out in 24 months and it will all be back to 26 inch.
Discuss.
I don't think both 650b and 26 can both survive. The differences are tiny. It seems like the industry are forcing 650b on us. New standards generate sales. The good news for fox fork owners is that their 26" forks take 650b wheels with clearance aplenty. 29ers cannot stand alone though, some people just plainly don't like them (like me).
xc/trail = 29
trail/am = 27.5
discuss further 😀
marketing.
Difference seems to be that 29ers were pushed over a long period of time by folk with odd facial hair (yes, that's you, Mr Fisher) and their market share grew organically, whereas 650b seems to be being pushed in a big way for longer travel bikes, or by manufacturers who missed the boat with 29ers.
650b is a lot closer to 27" than 27.5"; really not sure that an inch bigger wheel size can make much difference at all, and as such it's hard to see this year's big push as anything other than a marketing gambit.
Andy
Wot bigrich and ratherbeintobago says.
29ers have largely been driven from the bottom-up. 650b is so obviously an industry profit driven choice, that it will be interesting to see what the future holds.
The new Spesh enduro 29er has proven 29ers upto 150mm. The vast majority of bikes sold are sub-150mm. If this whole thing is a cynical marketing ploy then why go back? What benefit will 650b bring? Are the big brands who have pumped big dollars into 29ers really going to do a U-turn? Can't see it. They've invested too much into it in both dollars, ego's and their credibility is on the line.
Reckon 26ers have a very short shelf life now, after reading a lot in the cycling press about 650B, think this is the new size that many manufacturers are pushing hard.
I think 650b will replace most 26 usage but it won't stop 29. 29 is greate for XC and trail, I can see the case that 650b maybe better for a mostly downhill oriented bike for people who want to be competitive, and don't care about climbing or distance. 'Enduro' format events in other words.
I wouldn't worry ,the tide changes twice a day 🙂
Dirts review of the orange 5 29er intresting reading and thought provoling
26 will still exist you can stilll get 7 and 8 speed groupsets.
Wheels for courses
29er i like
26 i like
both different and hence fun to swap
27.5 not enough different enough
The new Spesh enduro 29er has proven 29ers upto 150mm
Hasn't proved they're better though, just that it can be done. Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should.... 😀
Who will win - the imperialists or metricians? 27.5 or 650? The only story as far as I'm concerned.
I like my bike, it has wheels and tyres. I've been able to share bits and bobs between different frames for years due to a common wheel size, why change?
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear"
More fuel for the retro-bike crowd
Soon all 26" wheeled bikes will be classed as retro and anyone riding one will need to grow facial hair and start drinking cider
[b][u]vondally[/u][/b]Dirt's review of the orange 5 29er; interesting reading and thought provoking
Care to summarize it for us?
29ers are the betamax of the cycling world
they may have advantages but the industry has decided
Reckon 26ers have a very short shelf life now, after reading a lot in the cycling press about 650B
It's almost like mass hypnosis isn't it? It's just too easy for them, they can make anybody believe anything whatsoever they want, driven and funded by the MTB companies.
650B is starting to look like the biggest and most obvious marketing con job in the history of MTB.
I'm not to convicted about the need for 27 and a bit wheels
As above 29 has its place for me , mile eating but a bit less fun in the woods
26 strong wheels and handling I love.
Spesh reckon that most of there 29 have geometry very nr to the older 26 stuff its replacing
But for me 26 will always have a place.
One thing I've yet to ride a 650b when I do I may change my mind.
I can still buy 650c tubes tyres and rims for my road bike so not to worried about stuff getting phased out
[b]650B is starting to look like the biggest and most obvious marketing con job in the history of MTB.[/b]
This
Wonder how many 29ers we'll see on the passportes this year.
Wonder how many broken 29ers we'll see on the passportes this year.
I like Kimbers analogy of Betamax and 29ers.
Betamax was the best variant of video but VHS was the winner due to the larger manufacturers with the most money.
Less than the number of 26's but more than the number of 27.5's?
I'd give em a wide berth in case of exploding wheel syndrome .
An industry con job maybe, but they do look very nice.
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Watching the push to 650b, I'm very happy that I stuck to 26. Lets see what 2015 has to bring...
28.234861 anyone?
The Betamax and VHS analogy only goes so far. They were both fighting for a brand new market; advertising and marketing won.
26" has been around from the beginning.
29" has been pushed for a few years, 27.5 is now being pushed.
29 and 27.5 are being pushed on a very large and quite content population of 26" user/owners.
I really don't think that advertising, marketing and greasing the palms of magazines will change things long-term.
Some folk think that new fads are better. Most folk do MTB because its fun and taxing whatever the wheel size.
Ride your bike, smile, have fun
Betamax was the best variant of video but VHS was the winner due to the larger manufacturers with the most money.
It all came(!) down to porn in the end. True (and quite interesting) story.
Whilst I don't like 29er bikes personally, i can see the advantages for people interested in doing quick, rubber down laps. I think they're here to stay. 26er and 27.5 are too similar. One will recede if not die I reckon.
/\ True story dude
As an interesting observation, there are those who speak of the 650B being pushed towards the longer travel part of the spectrum, yet this wheel size is proving rather successful in XC racing.
Apparently, Marianne Vos has just won the short Track at Sea Otter on a Giant 650B.
It all came(!) down to porn in the end.
Apparently an urban myth, but I like it.
Does anybody really care ...??? As long as they're riding .....it's only the tinternet nerds that get upset about it
Apparently an urban myth, but I like it.
Not possible. I saw it on the telly. Telly doesn't lie.....does it?
One thing 650b is NOT half way between 26 and 29
Or is 29 really 28 1 5/8 or should I use 700c
Oh no can't do that 700c is a road bike size and no good for marketing mtb
Opps rambling , its all rubbish
Ride the bikes you like and don't buy ones you don't
If your not fast enough get fitter
Telly doesn't lie.....does it?
Beleive me, I WORK in telly!
Sheeesh. Talk about shattering illusions.
I'm guessing your kids know about santa already?
Reckon 26ers have a very short shelf life now
Nahh. With mid range bikes 26in is still comfortably outselling 29in by a big margin. I know. I sell them. 🙂
Depends on the brand you sell , we sell Spesh so almost everything from £500 upwards is 29 and nothing else
PP
Firstly,Irony.
Secondly,for about a month (vs 10 years).
Thirdly, 😉
Orange 5 29
works fast on SW France enduro trail,fast and capabable when up to speed, fun and needs more sizes, 2.0 tyre beaver at 50 psi to help manverability (?) better tyre, switchbacks is about timing and will keep up with everything else on tight stuff.
Steve Jones liked it
26" taken from clunkers
650b taken from touring
29er is just 700c, taken from road
Perhaps someone could actually come up with something new?
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same issue compared a banshee rune with 26 and 27,5.............still to read,
Thanks vondally. "SW France enduro trail". I guess that tells us all we need to know about the intended user. Somebody a lot harder than me 🙂
Was sceptical. Tried some 29ers. Was surprised.
I don't know what 'fun in the woods' you people are having, but if it means going fast, well, as I say I was surprised. I'm finding its the fast steep techy stuff that 29ers are faster on, not on flatter stuff. No problem on twisty stuff either.
But then I am easily led.
Can't see that 650b would be as good.
The rule: 29 rolls better but 26 encourages more mentalism.
The exception: Yelli Screamy
650B = 26. Can anyone really tell the difference?
Just to help these are the iso diameters
26 is 559mm
650b is 584mm
29er is 622mm
Find my 26 hardtail is quicker out of the corners when peddling hard
And feels nicer going through tight single track at speed
Maybe it's a West Country thing but I don't actually know anyone on a 29r let alone a 650b.
Who cares about wheel size what matters is the bikes. The arrival of a new "thing" does not force you to sell or scrap you perfectly ok bike fitted with the old thing. Plenty I'd folk on here sporting 1" head tubes and 8 speed drive train, for example
Here's a thing, its a bike designed for 26" but has 650b wheels - it does roll a bit better....
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Cheezpleez - Member650B = 26. Can anyone really tell the difference?
sour grapes from someone who jumped on the wrong bandwagon(wheels)
😉
Instead of splurging this summer on some nice bits, 650b has actually put me off buying anything of value this year - Because to have anything reasonably future proof I may have to buy a new frame, fork and wheels....and it's not even guaranteed to replace 26 or be anything other than a passing fad.
No, what I'm going to do is ride my current bike into the ground and wait till 2015 to see where the market is at.
To the MTB industry....brilliant way to have people holding off from spending. You've introduced the biking equivalent of market instability in the stock markets.
Would you want to be a buyer for a bike brand trying to guess if 650 will take off
Get it wrong and either you loose sales or get stuck stuck with stock no one wants
I'd not want that choice
This constant wheel size twoddle from the bike industry is doing my nut! Cue no significant spending. Cwill ride my gear until its flogged to bits and then see what is left. I am not worried about 26" spares yet. I guess even if the bottom fell out of that market it would be 5years+ before the non whole bike manufacturers saw enough decline in demand to start scrapping moulds and tooling.
For me it is a shame because I would have considered splashing out on a 29r as the clown wheels would have suited 75%+ of my riding pretty well as well as being a good base for some touring tyres for child carrying duties etc.
26 to 650b is only 25mm!
26 to 29 is 63mm.
I struggle to see how 650b is enough of a leap forward from 26 for a normal rider.
As for pros winning on x wheel size what we will never know is how the same race would have gone on a different wheel size.
Plenty I'd folk on here sporting 1" head tubes and 8 speed drive train, for example
9sp, 1 1/8 head tube, 25.4 stem and 9mm QR wheels here - that would appear to make my bike totally obsolete. Mind you, the tandem and my TT bike have threaded headsets (9sp road groups on both of those!)
Oh, but the TT bike does have 650 wheels, making it ahead of it's time 😉
I can see the appeal of a 29er, and I can see the appeal of a 26er but 27.5/650b just annoys me. I know it's a marketing gimmick primarily being pushed by the manufacturers who missed out to the likes of specialized in the 2010-2012 29er gold rush, and are hoping to popularise slightly bigger wheels (but not quite as big as 29ers obviously) to drive a bit of short term sales growth. The problem is we're all a bit too content with whatever we're riding already mid-recession for this cobblers to take hold .
I'd rather own a 29er for distance and more xc type riding and a 26" bike for the more fun stuff than buy a 650b and not really be too sure what it's really meant to be for...
It's another push to separate IT management from their disposable income. I imagine it's only going to work on the really thick ones though...
None of these sizes are new they just gain loose popularity
the idea for 650b wheels is simply there because manufacturers know that 29" wheels are not very practical for the more gravity assisted types of riding, they do however like the way that bigger wheels render all your current forks, wheels, frames, tyres etc useless.
the logical choice was to come up with a wheel size that still renders most of you existing parts useless but is almost impossible to tell apart from a 26" wheel for most riders and doesn't have the same physical and engineering limitations as the true wagon wheelers.
Pink bike have a test of the new 29er enduro
Seems to work well enough for a big bike down hill ?
But again I've not ridden one yet
650B as a nominal 26" size is being introduced as a facesaver for all the 29er haters. It lets them buy the superiority of bigger wheels without having to admit they were wrong.
But 650B is yet another foreigners inferior wheel size.
The real British wheel size is 650A - the true 26" size - and better yet, it is 6mm bigger.
BTW is there a smiley for tongue in cheek?
i stopped reading the pink bike review of the 29er enduro as soon as they stated how fast it rolled across the carpark compared to the 26" version 🙄
29ers will stay for XC and marathon racing
26ers will stay king for downhill and gravity enduro
Not sure where 650 would fit it in really!! Maybe shorter riders would be best suited for them for XC and marathon races.
I don't see 29ers going away though.
Pink bike have a test of the new 29er enduro
Reviewers give positive review to product from major advertising contributor shocker!
Was more a pointing out that biger am bikes are now available in 29
Rather than getting to caught up in the website said it was great so it must be
Personal I've just build another 26 enduro
650B as a nominal 26" size is being introduced as a facesaver for all the 29er haters.
But don't most of those just hate new things?
I have to admit I am quite tempted by 650b in a way - partly for the novelty value of one on a muni, and partly because I am struggling to decide between 26 and 29 for that. What's the choice like in big fat tyres?
I have a 650b and love it, I'm a tall person so makes sense and definitely rolls faster, went back to 26 yesterday and it felt different but still fun.
I bought 650 because of the bike, not the wheel size but I'm converted.
Love all the people in this thread who said 26" is going nowhere a month ago.... 🙂
If you jumped on 29 then 650 is a bandwagon/marketing exercise
If you jumped on 650 then 29 is a bandwagon/marketing exercise
If you don't change bikes every week you probably don't care
I have a Voodoo Ti Hardtail with sliding dropouts hanging in my garage that will do 26", 650b and skinny 29er wheels......now that is future proof.
Just buy different wheels for doing different things and swap about as required
😆
If you don't change bikes every week you probably don't care
They all have their pros and cons - any claim to the contrary is just marketing. Ride a 20" regularly and a 26" feels like a steamroller!
i know I've been intrigued by 'em for years - especially when 29ers started making inroads into the market - but that dates back to a bike show in the early nineties when I spoke to a couple of frame builders. Both said that 26ers had come about by default & that they would rather be building frames around the 650b wheel size which they believed was the best compromise between speed & control.
A couple of years ago I was in the States and tried to test a 650b FS from Airborne but it was booked out for 8/9 weeks in advance. The guys in the shop were clearly fans & knew an awful lot about what was coming up from the industry i.e. RS/Fox forks, wheels & tyres. They also had a weird, but plausible, theory that the industry was looking to standardise @ 650b but it was too small a change to get anywhere so the 29er was born to persuade folk that a larger wheel was worthy of consideration. Now that there is a market, it is becoming evident that many riders feel the 29er too big but want some of the benefits of the larger size. In steps 650b as the ideal placement for both existing sizes.
Coincidentally, the guys that were originally behind twentynineinches.com & a few of the other sites are now the driving force at 650b.com etc.
I'm not sure i believe an industry would invent 2 markets in order to bring about a third that they'd prefer but I guess they've been selling bikes & making money all the way through & will continue to do so if the new 'standard' is widely adopted.
I did read somewhere that 650b outsold 26ers in Murrkah last year too.
Look, one wheel size will never be "the standard" in the industry because different wheel sizes clearly have different purposes. Downhill bikes will NEVER have 29 inch wheels as the standard, IMO.
29" has been pushed for a few years,
29er was from a few niche designers and odd bods. industry has been playing catch up since then,sometimes good things come from the small boys. the fact that industry have been pushing it shows that there is something in it otherwise why would they bother, it's never going to be the mainstream choice as people on the whole are very conservative.
They all have their pros and cons - any claim to the contrary is just marketing. Ride a 20" regularly and a 26" feels like a steamroller!
Absolutely, but talk of death of, end of etc is mostly bull. Mostly spouted by the converts trying to tell us they are right etc. I can see the point of 29/650 but not the need for me currently. Also I'd like to see the designs settle down and mature a bit. I'll be buying a new bike this year, it will be 26" as I have just got some new wheels. I have a house full of 26" wheeled bikes I don't need an odd one out. There is enough trouble with 15mm/20mm & 135/142 hubs....
The trouble with these new fangle sizes like 650B is that.....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28879558@N04/6089862860/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28879558@N04/6089862006/in/photostream/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8NNVy3ySGI
Why not make road bike wheels bigger? Surely that's where you'd see the biggest gains?
[quote=PrinceJohn ]Why not make road bike wheels bigger? Surely that's where you'd see the biggest gains?
There would be no advantage in a larger diameter on a smooth surface and it would increase aero drag. Some Time Trial bikes are 650s 🙂
Why not make road bike wheels bigger? Surely that's where you'd see the biggest gains?
Is that why many speed records on road are held by 20" bikes?
"new" is the marketing mans best friend. I've got too much invested in 26in bike stuff to make a change any time soon. Also I cannot see me being comfortable on a 29 on steeper stuff and in the Alps and having two bikes of different size seems daft.