Forum menu
I could see the point of 650b if it was bang in the middle between 26" and 29"
Stats so far this bike-guiding season:
Total clients - about 100 so far.
650b - 1
29" - 2
26" - all the rest
Remind me what riders want again?
Dusty trails please
Dusty trails please
#Like# 😉
Got plenty of those at the moment too... 😉
Bikes is what they want, just bikes and no bollox!
The problem is that the 'Industry' has reduced the choice by 1/3 by scrapping 26" wheels & tyres without giving a trial period.Why would you not want the choice??
Where's the choice there?
prices rise due to 3 wheel sizes
shite
gonna **** this mtb off if it carries on and do bmx
It's not the wheels which people generally revile OP. Its the pushy marketing more than anything, TBH I'm sure 650b has some advantages and I may well in due course end up owning a 650b bike. But really your lot need to STFU for a bit, stop pushing the bloody things like it really matters, none of us really believe we're going to"miss out".
Its a marginal increase in wheel size which incurs significant cost that a fair few don't fancy right now, you'll pardon the cynicism but let's be honest, it's an industry, a bunch of businesses looking to make profit. don't get all surprised when she don't instantly acquire a huge Lob on for your latest version of the wheel...
As a marketing tactic regularly starting up circular interweb arguments over this topic is on a par with a butcher marching up to vegans and shouting about his love of eating dead animal bits, he's unlikely to convert his audience, and should probably expect to see a reasonably hostile response...
As for working 20-25 years flogging bicycles, good for you, you clearly enjoy it, but you'd be the last person I'd ask about I'm sorry, but in much the same way I'd not ask someone working in a ford dealership, what car I should buy, why would I ask you when your loyalties clearly lie with whichever brand(s) your shop are pushing...
Maybe the OP is a bit of a snob?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lbs-owners-snobs
bikeind - MemberI have over 25 years working within the cycle industry and my knowledge is superior you could say so when a customer says that to me it baffles me
Dont think he liked my sales pitch one bit,which was a real shame as I don't like a customer to leave empty handed out of my shops
The word 'tool' keeps entering my head? Perhaps I need to order a park tool.
prices rise due to 3 wheel sizesshite
gonna **** this mtb off if it carries on and do bmx
Have you not heard?
They are calling it 21.75".
Its not quite half way between 20" and 24" just big enough to necessitate a new frame & fork, and you'd actually be hard pushed to spot any difference but apparently it make the park/track/trails/half pipe "come alive!"
yeah think i read it somwhere
gets worse dunt it
Op- you are dave hinde and I claim £5
Well it goes without saying that we yes we in the bike industry have to earn a living just like everyone else you know!!
And after being in it so long now maybe I am influenced by which direction it goes
I am a salesmen and yes I do like to make a sale who doesn't huh
No I am not dave hinde
Fruit?
And after being in it so long now maybe I am influenced by which direction it goes
I am a salesmen and yes I do like to make a sale who doesn't huh
Just tell us who you are and where you work, people will be beating a path to your door 🙂
Junkyard - lazarus - Quote
Fruit?
Superstar's 650b wheels are only 648a or maybe 652dd, but whichever they are it's your bike that wrong 😉
I've already progressed beyond 650b, I believe the ideal wheel size is somewhere between 650b and a 29er. Whilst I have a sneaking suspicion that there may be some men in dark rooms currently working on a set of graphics indicating a whole new range of nominal benefits of this wheel to allow me to be 0.0000000000034% more gnar, the PR men will never allow this till the[s]y have milked 650b to death[/s] spectre of 26' wheels has departed. I'm sure more riders will see the light in this new wheel size and help generate enough demand for the industry to accommodate this new size.
You mean a true 27.5"?
It seems that 650b is an "answer" to an economic rather than a biking issue.
There's a recession. People are cutting back and where they can, are buying good quality second hand stuff. So, how do the bike industry respond and make people buy new things?
Simple, a new "standard". If most new bikes are the new standard, there's no (or at best, a sorely restricted) second hand parts market. And the losers with a now "defunct" standard? Tough. All your cash are belong to Trek or Giant or one of the other behemoths with a buy in to delivering ever greater shareholder value. It's all BS.
We've seen the same thing happen with smaller components over a while. BB's and cranks. 4/5 arm cranks, o/s handlebars. And then the push to taper steerers etc etc. The issue is that the big boys have got greedy. New wheels, not enough, now frame not enough. Now they want the second hand market dead and you dumping 5k every other year on a new bike.
What they can't see is that they're killing MTBing. People are buying less. And "new" folk won't bother because there's too many variables and too much to understand. Want a racer? 1 size of wheels, all bikes look alike. Want an MTB? What are you doing with it? XC? 29er. DH? 26... or 650b. All round? Who knows? Sticker shock and buyer confusion. At the same time the "little guys" like Cotic suffer too, as they can't carry all frame sizes and (understandably) don't want to bet the farm on a new, possibly failing standard.
It's like VHS/Beta, BluRay/HD DVD all over again - and on both these occasions, the ordinary Joe stopped buying till a standard was agreed on. Except in MTB, there's *always* a new standard.
If i buy a bicycle related product am i in 'the industry' too? You're simply a salesman (unless you make the stuff you sell).
I don't get why people get so precious about different sized wheels on here. In the [i]real [/i]world no one gives a stuff.
p8ddy - MemberIt seems that 650b is an "answer" to an economic rather than a biking issue.
There's a recession. People are cutting back and where they can, are buying good quality second hand stuff. So, how do the bike industry respond and make people buy new things?
Simple, a new "standard". If most new bikes are the new standard, there's no (or at best, a sorely restricted) second hand parts market. And the losers with a now "defunct" standard? Tough. All your cash are belong to Trek or Giant or one of the other behemoths with a buy in to delivering ever greater shareholder value. It's all BS.
We've seen the same thing happen with smaller components over a while. BB's and cranks. 4/5 arm cranks, o/s handlebars. And then the push to taper steerers etc etc. The issue is that the big boys have got greedy. New wheels, not enough, now frame not enough. Now they want the second hand market dead and you dumping 5k every other year on a new bike.
What they can't see is that they're killing MTBing. People are buying less. And "new" folk won't bother because there's too many variables and too much to understand. Want a racer? 1 size of wheels, all bikes look alike. Want an MTB? What are you doing with it? XC? 29er. DH? 26... or 650b. All round? Who knows? Sticker shock and buyer confusion. At the same time the "little guys" like Cotic suffer too, as they can't carry all frame sizes and (understandably) don't want to bet the farm on a new, possibly failing standard.
It's like VHS/Beta, BluRay/HD DVD all over again - and on both these occasions, the ordinary Joe stopped buying till a standard was agreed on. Except in MTB, there's *always* a new standard.
well said
P8ddy, Its not that they want the second hand market dead
its the fact that they want the replacement and upgrades market dead
People buying niche brand frames and transplanting their components, or replacing bits when they wear out, is [b]really[/b] bad for the people who sell complete bikes.
I am a salesmen and yes I do like to make a sale
The first grain of truth you have uttered since starting this thread/sales promotion.
I want a hover bike.
P8ddy +1
benji - MemberI am a salesmen and yes I do like to make a sale
The first grain of truth you have uttered since starting this thread/sales promotion.
Posted 28 minutes ago # Report-Post
I think it was a lame attempt at trolling too. He can show it to his little friends in his shop.
Macavity - MemberThere will be lots of new stuff at,
And the 650b fiasco has put me off buying any of it.
It's like VHS/Beta, BluRay/HD DVD all over again - and on both these occasions, the ordinary Joe stopped buying till a standard was agreed on by the porn industry. Except in MTB, there's *always* a new standard
I work at a shop and we have yet to sell a 650b. 29 is still selling, 26 less so, but not a single 650b. Rider demand eh?? Like many of the comments above, it's not the wheel size everyone hates, it's the industry attitude of "here's a plate of bulls**t, now eat it up!" and expecting everyone to believe that their new mousetrap is [b]THE BESTEST EVAR![/b] buy one, and line their pockets with money. Last time i saw an idea forced on mtb like this was Shimano's dual control/rapid rise fiasco, and we all know how that one turned out... [END RANT]
[i]Is[/i] there a bike porn industry? We need to ask them? Where's RonJeremy when you need him?
So will this standard migrate to Fat bikes too
and should folks be stockpiling 26 inch tyres with a view to them increasing in value as the bikeshops run out
Or is it a storm in an inner tube and nowt to worry about
Is there a bike porn industry? We need to ask them? Where's RonJeremy when you need him?
In the bike shop on a shoot?
The thing about the mtb industry is that it seems to be trying very hard to create the apperance of innovation without actually innovating
Why all the time and energy spent changing axle sizes, headset sizes, handlebar clamp sizes, bottom brackets, and wheel sizes for marginal (or quite possibly no) gains and yet you leave a fairly important drivetrain component unchanged from the system that's been used for the last 100 years?
Could it be that designing a half decent gearbox bike is actually a bit difficult and might require some actual R&D costs when the far cheaper option is to change a dimension or two and proclaim this latest innovation the second coming?
and yet you leave a fairly important drivetrain component unchanged from the system that's been used for the last 100 years?
money in it eh snapping and replacing all the time.
Like many others who have posted on this thread i wished to express my feelings on the great "2013 : 650B" debate as i ride 26", and have no desire to go that little bit faster or roll over stuff easier - i ride bikes coz i enjoy getting out in the hills and taking in the views, seeing new places, discovering new trails etc.
As i try and formulate a suitable witty and concise response i feel my brain cells withering and dying, by merely typing what i have so far i fear that on my deathbed i'll rue the day i wasted 5 mins of my life attempting to state my opinion on a **** web forum of all places, so here's a summery of how i feel about the perceived manufacturer led 650b onslaught (from a bike shop mechanics perspective). for me it boils down to "New wheel format? - Lets sell em' more shit"
[img] 
[/img]
It's a small part of the market - I don't think it's a motivator here.People buying niche brand frames and transplanting their components, or replacing bits when they wear out, is really bad for the people who sell complete bikes.
Could it be that designing a half decent gearbox bike is actually a bit difficult and might require some actual R&D costs when the far cheaper option is to change a dimension or two and proclaim this latest innovation the second coming?
What and right off sales of mechs?
I'm sticking with 700c for all of my bikes.
simondbarnes - MemberI'm sticking with 700c for all of my bikes.
Go on then, post up a picture of your Brompton. 🙂
Could it be that designing a half decent gearbox bike is actually a bit difficult and might require some actual R&D costs when the far cheaper option is to change a dimension or two and proclaim this latest innovation the second coming?
no its because the four people that might just want one are insignificant (on top of them being shite) and riding round the city on a brompton with a reliable gear hub is a market share worth going for
ffs you think a company with a budget like honda threw the towel on because it was a bit hard?
Well, I like my 650B hardtail. Rode it to top ten at Hadleigh Farm today. Works for me!
ffs you think a company with a budget like honda threw the towel on because it was a bit hard?
Honda didn't throw in the towel on gearboxes, they threw the towel in on mountain biking.
They came into mountain biking and designed a bike from first principles rather than trying to adapt a safety bicycle to the task, hence they ended up using a gearbox since it's the obvious solution if you hadn't been brainwashed to accept traditional bike constrution as the only way to go.
It's a real shame that Honda quit. They were the only ones really trying to advance bicycle design. Possibly they realised that there were already too many companies changing the dimensions of various components from the standard and calling this a game changer. With BS such as changing from 26 to 650b being touted as a worthwhile endevour you can see why they might be worried that a genuine change would get lost in all the noise.
http://www.eurobike-show.com/eb-en/
Go every year or I send one of my employees
Spoke to Gary Fisher there last year who stated that 26" is dead
We shall see
Those that like the 650b great 8)