[Closed] 650b selling

It's a sustained period of dry weather (such as we are enjoying) which brings the trail alive for me. 650b will be dead come the British Winter because those bigger wheels will be clogged with mud and weigh even more than my 26-inchers.

Surely that's entirely dependent on which tyres you use 😉

But that's material for an entirely different thread...

funkrodent - Member

Just found out that my new 650b (or 27.5" or 27" or whatever it actually is) is ready in the bike shop for me to test ride. I'll be on it at lunch thrashing the pavement trails of central Mcr.

What interests me is that, other than On-One with the 456, they seem to be the only bike company that I'm aware of, that has produced a bike that changes the length of the chainstays to match the frame size
The lowly Ghost brand do this... I'm sure many others too.

Fair enough. The more the better I say, just seems to make sense.

In the meantime I have a nailed on excuse for when I fail those really steep climbs due to the front wheel heading skyward 😉

Hmmm I seem to being made out to not know what I'm on about
Well trust me I like my 650b alot and those that have tried one out or own one will back me up

We sold two this morning already
Both admit ably to a couple but still two sales 650b

I love it when a troll gets defensive

Martin (bikeind)

I have worked in bike shops over 25 years well actually all my working life and Saturdays while at school so trust me I know my thing one would say and can hold my own out on the trails

but you bio says

Name martin
About Me Been in the bike industry 20 years now
Location Surrey

I know time flies and that but make up your mind innit.

20, 25, all your life!

Someone's prone to exaggerating.

We sold two this morning already

But that's completely meaningless. You and everyone in the shop are hot and heavy for the format so of course you'll push their sales more.

Question that I've yet to see answered (so feel free to point me in the direction if it has!) is this: if 650b is so good at delivering the best of 26 and 29, then why is it only talked about as killing off the long established 26er and not both wheel sizes?

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Hmmm I seem to being made out to not know what I'm on about

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Toasty, that's brilliant 😀

We sold two this morning already
Both admit ably to a couple but still two sales 650b

And that proves what exactly?

a)650b is definitely the only bike to buy now because the couple that purchased were called Atherton.
b)650b is the only size bike you sell so it's Hobson's Choice
c)The purchasers know nothing about bikes and just bought whatever you thrust under their noses as long as it had a nice paint job and a bell.

Feel free to add any other options...

Can you still buy a high end 26" bike though in 2014 spec? Of course he's selling 27.5, unless the buyer wants last years (2013) or a BSO and is too small for a 29er there's nowhere else to go but the trail enlivening mid size wheel route

We sold two this morning already
Both admit ably to a couple but still two sales 650b

So, a couple walk in a bike shop, and say "we want to buy some mountain bikes for our family holidays"... like every other LBS, they push what they have in stock. "Oh, yes, this is just what you want - it has round wheels, and pedals, and a seat. Perfect".

like i can afford to [b]change all my bikes again[/b]
...
op you sound like a pure industry tool.

I love mine I must say really brings the trail alive

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How long do you keep your trousers on for, op?

Simple equation really

No mind of your own=buy 650b or whatever your told too...

Have some grey matter= Ride what you have !!

🙂

edit.

New bikes with 1cm bigger radius wheels. All you need to feel this radical change is a new frame, forks, wheels, tyres and tubes!

This!

The bike industries use of 650b is essentially doing by force, what 29 failed to do by conviction 🙁

We've not sold any 650b bikes since they came out.
To be fair we are a gift shop.

I think the thread ended there

Ninfan has it right, 29ers failed to take off in the same way they did stateside so 650b seems to be another attempt to generate the sales that didn't come from the 29er 'revolution'....
Thing is, if demand is there for 26 inch parts thrn some enterprising company will cater for the demand and do rather well.... will the big companies then give in to demand and start making 26 inch parts again?
Of course I could be wrong and 650b takes off next year but I have a 456-evo in 26 inch flavour and a Dialled Alpine frame waiting to be built up over the winter....a new bike is potentially years away for me and I suspect I'm not the only one in that position.... to be honest I'm more likely to buy a new road bike before I buy a new MTB.

We're at a point where modern 26 inch bikes are considered 'good enough' and developments like 29ers and 650b are nice to have available but won't revolutionise people's riding in the way disc brakes, slack angles and dropper posts have.

Look at the problems the phone network EE are having trying to sell 4G contracts.... it's not taking off as they'd hoped because current 3G data signals are good enough for most people. Music can be streamed faultlessly, videos are played without buffering.... what are the benefits of 4G again?
Mountain biking is in this position with big wheels, 26 inch wheels do the job, what holds me back is my fitness and lack of skills.... bigger wheels won't change that.
26 inch kit is 'good enough' that I don't want to spend my money on incremental differences or improvements.

funkrodent - Member
Just found out that my new 650b (or 27.5" or 27" or whatever it actually is) is ready in the bike shop for me to test ride. I'll be on it at lunch thrashing the pavement trails of central Mcr (as if that's going to tell me anything, though I know a couple of cheeky bits of "off-road" that will help).
It's a Norco Sight Killer B. Had very good reviews from a range of UK and US press.
What interests me is that, other than On-One with the 456, they seem to be the only bike company that I'm aware of, that has produced a bike that changes the length of the chainstays to match the frame size (or in their parlance they change the position of the BB), rather than just extend the front triangle 10mm per size. This seems crucial to me as without that the geometry of the frame (and the position of the rider in relation to it) is fundamentally different for each size. Seems to me to make sense. Bigger frames have bigger wheels and the geometry of each frame is adjusted to ensure that the rider position is correct. Simples

POSTED 7 HOURS AGO #

I've had a Sight Killer B1 for the last 6 months or so. The best all round bike I've owned, seriously, so I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed (I've been riding for just over 16 years now so have had a fair few different frames/bikes over that time, for various disciplines, from trials to downhill to xc).
Now, as for how much of it is down to the wheel size, I'm not sure. It does seem to roll over stuff exceptionally well (both up and down), but would a 26" version of it be as much fun, yes I'm sure it would. Would it be quicker, not so sure. Whatever wheel size it's a damn good bike.

Just because a bike/frame is 26"/27.2"/650b/29"/700c etc etc doesn't automatically determine how good it is, there is good and bad frames/bikes in all those wheel categories I'm sure, and far more goes into it than wheel size.
Saying that I've tried a few 29ers and they did feel a little cumbersome for the type of riding I do. But that's specific to my riding and I can see how one would make sense for other types/styles of riding (and probably be quicker). I've got my cx bike for that though 😉
Currently building up a steel hardtail jumpy/4x/f.a.b bike (dialled holeshot), that is of course 26" and I wouldn't want any bigger wheels on it, thats for sure!

I can understand the frustration in the changing standards thing (eg. having to spend money is what it boils down to for most people), but I've been doing this long enough to realise that some of it is definitely for the better (maybe 650b is, maybe it isn't).

Enjoy what you've got and if your in the market for a new bike [b]pick it based on what you want it for/your riding style[/b] not what some 'thinks he knows it all' on the tinternet/works in a bike shop tells you what you need.

😀

Well the comments on here beggars belief really!

Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

[quote=bikeind ]Well the comments on here beggars belief really!
Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one
I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Is this a troll machine? Picking random lines and posting them???

bikeind - Member - Quote
Well the comments on here beggars belief really!

Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

All those trails you are bringing back to life, I'm going to ride them on my 26" bike and kill them. Killing stuff is more fun that making it come alive 🙂

Sounds like you are desperate to sell these as your walk in customers aren't being sucked in by the 2% bigger wheelsize bullshit. Stw is a cynical hive that will be hard to convince that trails will miraculously come to life with wheel diameters many are already riding with bigger tyres. But keep trying, it's amusing to watch a desperate salesman.

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Having been in the bike industry for so long you as much as anyone should know there really is no standards, yes there are sizes but they will change as fast as the wind does, take bottom brackets, bb30/pf30/bb386 and that's without the trusty BSA, what did the very early bikes run push fit, industry goes full circle and hails it as new.

As for wheel size, i'm happily sat on a 29er when I'm not on my cross bike (skinny 29er 🙂 )

Just for the record I would ride over a trail made of cats. But I'm not sure what wheel size would be best or furry trails that meow.

Well the comments on here beggars belief really!

Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Well, I for one am totally convinced by your argument and would like to revitalise my riding experience by buying into the new standard. Where is your shop so that I can benefit from your obvious expertise and make sure that I get exactly the right bike for my needs?

Where is your shop so that I can benefit from your obvious expertise and make sure that I get exactly the right bike for my needs?

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Top trolling 😀

Seriously though, I'd love to see what the European sales figures were for 29'ers in the big brands over the past couple of years - I'd be willing to bet that those who went 'big' on 29, which was huge in the states (to the point where you couldn't buy a 26) dropped though their arses in european sales.

All I'm worried about is parts. What about newbies? We've gone from 1 wheel size to 3 for MTB. Sounds to me like it's just going to leave a lot of people really confuzzled. What about all the [s]bidet[/s] budget brands - Carrera etc - are they going 650b or 29"? How many tyre choices am I going to have in a few years with 26"*

Also I am basically pissed because I finally built my dream wheels a couple of years ago** and the frickin' things are only going to get more difficult to get tyres for now, esp. cheap ones - cheap things only exist due to volume production and the more "standards" there are the less volume of production of each type OR manufacturers are just going to scale back their range to only include the popular shizzle. Either way I see my options reducing and my wallet taking a pounding [so I won't need to buy that fancy slimline wallet I keep seeing advertised here anyway]

* This also works both ways - what budget tyre for 650b - "I'm just getting into MTB, I love in sweet sweet mountain terrain and the only shop near me sells 3 types of tyre for 29", one Tub and one 26" with a centerline the vicar uses to visit his goats. Woe is meeeeee"

**321 Disc Ceramic, DB Black DT's and Blue Hope Pro2's in 20mm and Bolt-on. Yes I know they weigh about as much as a walrus and I don't care one bit because they will never ever break unless I crash so hard I die. And then I doubt I'll care.

They then BS
us that it is the best of both and due to rider
demand.

This +2

A mate of mine works for a prominent company in the bike industry and sprouted that bullsh#t line above. I asked him who were these thousands of riders who wanted a wheel size they had never ridden and how did they suddenly have influence over a product that didn't exist when the bike industry rarely listens to the consumers! Funnily enough, he didn't really have much of a response.

I was looking at spending around £2500 on a new 26" bike recently, but with many manufacturers changing their wheel size standard I've just decided to buy an old 26" frame from 2008 and save some cash, don't really want to buy a bike i can't get parts for in a few years time if this 650b thing does become the new standard.

Loads of riders are riding 650b now(more or less) and have been for years.. Mahoosive tyres on little rims.
Now there is a wheel that gives you this size as a base rather than stretching a 26er to the limit with balloon tyres. I like the idea of a high volume xc lightweight tyre taking you up to a 28er or running a low profile aggressive knobbly taking me back to a 26er with big boots.

Even my XC race bike has High volume tyres on it now so why would I (or you) be against a bike evolving to this 650b standard.
The bike progresses to what riders have been asking for.. no big change but a new middle ground scenario.

If a company has been flogging bikes with big high volume tyres for half a decade doesn't it make sense that a bike evolves to this standard instead of an elastoplast fix?

650b makes sense to me and I think it will give new options as long as tyre producers play the game.. many other strange standards over the last few years are far worse IMO (mainly because I'm happy wih a 650b type set up on my 26er I suppose)

Interested to see how it pans out (and what we are all riding in 5 or 6 years.)

Skinny tyres on a 650b rim would be harsh on a hardtail I reckon, I'll stick with 26's and large volume tyres for now.

Still, it will be interesting how this pans out.

'The Industry' that you guys seem to want to denigrate, is a genuine force of innovation and improvement.

Without 'the industry' - you wouldn't have bikes & kit.

650B had its renaissance about 6 years back when Mr. Kirk Pacenti was looking for a way to use the largest possible wheel-size - while retaining time-proven MTB geometry.. having become frustrated with the design compromises necessary to fit 29" wheels.

Myself and others have been riding and pushing 650B for these last few years - lobbying the big guys to get on board and take up the standard. Most haven't wanted to know - Fox even forbade the use of 650B wheels in it's forks. The risk of confusing the consumer (and the retailer) with 3 different wheel-sizes was also a major concern.

I, for one, am chuffed to bits that 650B is finally getting it's day in the sun.. Why would you not want the choice??

The ride is very similar to 26" bikes - all the whippy-ness but smoother and grippier IMO

Without 'the industry' - you wouldn't have bikes & kit.

😆

I'm sticking to me 26er chaps!

The Borg won't assimilate me. 😀

I, for one, am chuffed to bits that 650B is finally getting it's day in the sun.. Why would you not want the choice??

I do want the choice - to be able to carry on being able to get quality 26" spares should I choose to - this will be taken away over time.

So which shop is this? Sounds like one to avoid.

The bike progresses to what riders have been asking for.

So we all wanted push fit BB ?
I thought the reason was the higher tolerances they could cope with and the fact it made it cheaper to produce ...still bless them for responding to the demand 🙄

Without 'the industry' - you wouldn't have bikes & kit.

I think without folk willing to buy stuff there would be no industry - they are not doing it out of altruism

Why would you not want the choice??

The ride is very similar to 26" bikes

We know that is the point

bollox to it all i say!

i was told that 26" is dead by a certain industry guy,in response i said that 99% of all who i ride with and have rode with and other groups also adamantly do not want to change from 26"

nuff said.

instead of wheel size invent a better derailleur or somet.

ahhh wait on there's too much money made out of snapped derailleurs.

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

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nixon_fiend - Member
'The Industry' that you guys seem to want to denigrate, is a genuine force of innovation and improvement.

Without 'the industry' - you wouldn't have bikes & kit.

650B had its renaissance about 6 years back when Mr. Kirk Pacenti was looking for a way to use the largest possible wheel-size - while retaining time-proven MTB geometry.. having become frustrated with the design compromises necessary to fit 29" wheels.

Myself and others have been riding and pushing 650B for these last few years - lobbying the big guys to get on board and take up the standard. Most haven't wanted to know - Fox even forbade the use of 650B wheels in it's forks. The risk of confusing the consumer (and the retailer) with 3 different wheel-sizes was also a major concern.

[b]I, for one, am chuffed to bits that 650B is finally getting it's day in the sun.. Why would you not want the choice??[/b]

The ride is very similar to 26" bikes - all the whippy-ness but smoother and grippier IMO

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Oh jeez, please tell me you are joking! Either that or you work in a bike shop like the op 🙄