[Closed] 650b - feel alittle underwhelmed

apologies for using "he" in conjunction with "bike designer" - didn't mean to appear to be misogynistic...

Its funny all the 650b negativity has gone from, its a tiny bit bigger wheel and makes no difference to, its a huuge change and ruins everything !

Bottom line is there's good bikes and bad, and there's bikes you like and bikes you don't, and they're not the same thing. I went through a bunch of hardtails to get one I like, but they all had 26 wheels so I can't blame that. If one of them was 650b and I hated it, I guess I might blame the wheels, but since the change in size is so small I reckon it's a much smaller consideration than other factors.

I'm getting on with 650b just fine. I find it's nice improvement on 26. I notice it rolls smoother on faster trails than 26 but doesn't feel noticeably bigger. 29ers that i have ridden roll much smoother but also feel noticeably bigger and a little sluggish on tighter stuff.

Personally I wouldn't buy a new frame/forks/bike just to change from 26 to 650b. If i got on with 29ers I probably would because the positives are more apparent that 26 to 650b but then so are the negatives.

To the OP, I didn't notice much difference at first until I rode my 26 again. Plus there will be some advantages to the rolling resistance over bumps of slightly larger wheels even if you don't notice it. To me thats the appeal. I don't notice the wheels being bigger but know they roll smoother. As Tesco say ' Every little helps'.

Genuine question here Hora

If you had ridden 650b bikes and didn't get on with them, why did you blindly go out and buy a 650b bike that you had not tested?

You have taken all of the pleasure out of owning a new bike, it's rather ridiculous.

Are your forks 42 or 46mm offset?

I believe 26" pikes to be 40mm offset.

I imagine if you're on 46mm offset with 26" wheel, maybe you've stumbled across something you really like?

26" wheel will do the obvious of speeding up the steering be steepening the HA, it will also reduce the "trail", making the steering even more direct, maybe this is what you're liking on the steering aspect of the 26 and not on the 650.

But yea, as everyone else is saying, a good bike is a good bike, that's different for everyone, the wheels aren't really going to be the ONE thing that means you don't like the bike.

Size wise, im 5ft10 and would definitely buy a large if i were to buy one. Too small could be ruining it for you too.

PS, what's this nonsense from others about 29ers on tight stuff not being great, if you can turn, you can turn, i really have no problems getting my 29er through tight stuff.

Be constructive, I don't go on your topics posting negativity do I?

no you dont, but neither are you constructive* - dont give it out if you cant take it! 😆

*please dont make me have to go back through the threads and threads of renton's past to prove it PLEASE 🙁

Scandal42 I had a quick spin on a stw'ers medium before ordering. When mine arrived I fitted 26'er existing wheels and it ripped. Like I've said previously if I'd not fitted 26'ers I'd have never know.

BTW its not new Ive had it 26'd for over 3months.

I was talking to turnerguy not renton. Rentons funny, turnerguys one dimensional.

Forks are 2014/2015 34 Float 160's and are 44 offsets if it helps

Im a serial frame swapper.
I own a V4.
You can buy mine in 2016 or 2017 if you can wait OP?

why not buy that neutral frame that you keep trying to avoid so you have nothing to complain about, and then just work on your riding technique - maybe go see Jedi.

I am not a skillful rider but when I bought my Flux I aimed for a bike where there were virtually no issues I could see, and so when I ride and mess up I know that it is nothing to do with the bike.

(Not quite true when I am following people on slacker and bigger travel bikes and they go down steep stuff that I have more problems on - but thanks to Jedis advice on heels down, etc I manage a fair amount of stuff...)

Same with my tennis and golf - I get the best, most neutral kit I can, and then there are a whole lot less issues I could possibly deal with when assessing why my scores are so high, or I lose so many matches.

Putters then same type Faldo used - if it's good enough for him, etc...

I am waiting to hear why your Ritchey Logic road frame is wrong for you...

Turnerguy get off my topic. I was after constructive discussion and I've indicated I dont want or seek your opinion or advice.

Turnerguy get off my topic. I was after constructive discussion and I've indicated I dont want or seek your opinion or advice.

tough - I made a constructive comment - why don't you buy a neutral bike that fits you and just get on with it?

[img] [/img]

Waiting? As in nothing better to do.

[img] [/img]

That's quite a lot of bike for the mincecore riding that you do

What's the upshot then? You just gonna stick with 26" wheels?

Mud clearance should be excellent anyway.

Going to run it 67.5'er tomorrow then take it from there. If Im unsure I'll run bigger Schwalbes front and rear on 26'ers.

Dirtyrider, no idea. I ride within my capabilities that way I avoid injuries but Im still quicker than some and I ride tech. Thats a great compromise for me. It means I'll be strong enough to future-proof myself for years of riding and active physical stuff.

STW's most infamous purchaser of the wrong sized bike, purchases wrong size bike again and then blames it on the wheels which are an inch bigger and make bugger all difference for 99% of riders.

STW wouldn't be the same without you Hora.

Have a read what the guys at Liteville say on the subject of 26/27,5 mixed format. Makes sense to me.

http://www.liteville.de/t/25_579.html

Kudos100 you missed the bit where I said I felt underwhelmeb on other 650b's..

Regardless of what some bike journos say or preach they dont know everything.

I'll have have a read welshfarmer

Always keen to learn

welshfarmer - Member
Have a read what the guys at Liteville say on the subject of 26/27,5 mixed format. Makes sense to me.
> http://www.liteville.de/t/25_579.html
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That was really good cheers.

I got a 650b hardtail a month ago. The wheels felt a bit unwieldy to me to start with, but after 8 or 9 rides, I'm getting used to it and really like it. Rode my 26 a couple of days ago and it felt really small and twiddley!

I don't know anyone who has switched to 650b who hasnt got on with it and preferred it to the 26"
not journos, in fact a lot of riders rave about the size.

but then some people always blame their bikes, when the really good riders just get on with what they have.

Let us know how you get on with 67.5er wheels....

Hope Cross, Beast, Gores, Fairholmes, cheeky, cheeky. Hope today.

Can I just come back to this comment quickly:

I'm 3inches over the manufacturers recommended guidelines.

Look at that on a ruler and contrast it with your overall height?

So I'm 8cm's taller or 4% over their guidelines. Is that insurmountable?

It's not your overall height that you need to be comparing it with, but the difference between the smallest person Commencal thinks their bikes fit and the largest person.

[url= http://www.commencal-bikes.de/downloads/sizing_chart.pdf ]Sizing chart is here[/url]. XS is recommended for people of 5' upwards. XL suggested at 6'2" upwards.

So the range is more like, say, 15", covering 4 sizes. Your 3' accounts for c.20% of the range.

That's not to say it necessarily matters, but it's the same point with height really as with ground clearance - it's relative rather than absolute. I've had a long agonise about this before getting a Large Transition Scout on order. At 5'10"ish, I'm in the M/L overlap. Sized up after a bit of thought.

🙂

Have a read what the guys at Liteville say on the subject of 26/27,5 mixed format. Makes sense to me.

http://www.liteville.de/t/25_579.html

That was really interesting. It does actually make sense. I'm tempted to experiment and try it.

Hora - I can't add much more to this debate other than i've recently just gone to 27.5. I hated it initially. It's taken me half a dozen decent rides to get used to it, but now I have I love it. I wouldn't go back to 26. So, just stick with it, it will definitely click eventually.

I was talking to turnerguy not renton. Rentons funny, turnerguys one dimensional.

FWIW 650b to me, i can tell a small difference but changing from 1 bike to another is a bigger change. I just adapt me to the bike, personal prefs aside eg saddle grips etc

I ride tech.

Getting that on a t-shirt.

I was reading this http://normallyaspiratedhuman.com/?p=1528 and there was this phrase in the middle of it: "[i]Choice is often a curse. Those with no choice are free of the burden of endless procrastination and can simply get on and do what is necessary.[/i]"

I've one MTB. Is it perfect for everything? [b]No[/b]. Is it perfect for anything? [b]No[/b]. Can I make it perfect for anything? [b]No[/b]. Is it good enough for what I want? [b]Yes, by a long, long way[/b]

I got a 650b hardtail a month ago. The wheels felt a bit unwieldy to me to start with, but after 8 or 9 rides, I'm getting used to it and really like it. Rode my 26 a couple of days ago and it felt really small and twiddley!

Rode my 26 a couple of days ago and it felt [s]really small and twiddley![/s] fun and lively!

FTFY.. 😀

Ok we did a rock (Beast), fast (Gores/Lockerbrook) and steep steep switchbacks and at no point did I grumble. I was using a borrowed Reverb and noted I fitted/placed the saddle on the rails almost perfect whereas previously I'd constantly adjusted (that could be something else) but also on any fireroad/trail I could pedal no handed or coast and the bike was rock solid. I could feel the loose/two spokes in the rear though (more pressure on the rear/rear wheel?), it didnt feel chopperish at all and on steep climbs (slabs climb to Whinstone lee tor) I'd hop off anyway on any bike.

As Tom mentioned earlier I felt some low speed 'flop' which irritated me initially but became a strength. It cornered better than full 650b but still felt great to pop off things. I need to drop the fork psi alot more though

Pics to follow, hopefully an action one too. Im keeping 650b/26 for now.

As with other comments on 67.5'ers from here/mtbr etc I can echo it marrys two positives of both wheelsets for trail riding

What part does fork offset play? I also have some 40mm 160 Mazz forks that could play with

"Choice is often a curse. Those with no choice are free of the burden of endless procrastination and can simply get on and do what is necessary."

I've one MTB. Is it perfect for everything? No. Is it perfect for anything? No. Can I make it perfect for anything? No. Is it good enough for what I want? Yes, by a long, long way

Yep, for the best part of 12 months i had a medium/long travel HT while we consolidated funds to buy a house, it was great....going out for a ride meant checking the tyres and nothing else....no fretting over which bike to take, no having to avoid one bike because its due a service or some work needs doing...i used that bike for everything from uplift days to XC pootling and didnt worry about it once, even entered some races on it.

Now i have a full-suss built up (Giant Trance) and i'm eyeing up either a short travel 29er (thinking Orange Segment but open minded) or full on DH bike project as my next one with the aim to have both by the end of the year giving me:

a 26er HT playbike
a 27.5 Trail/enduro race FS
a 26/27.5 DH rig
a 29er Trail/XC FS

....and having choice is causing me no end of stress as i hunt for overtime shifts at work, spend far too long researching sites like CRC and pricing everything up, watching videos of the bikes i have in mind, scouring mags for reviews etc etc....i find i'm actually riding less and the recent thread on here about people going to a HT and regretting it or not did get me thinking about ditching the others and just going back to something like a Cotic Soul and doing everything on the one bike.

Stuff does not make you happy, cycling does, all stuff does is give you short term satisfaction and take up room.

I only have one mountain bike for everything ,well actually thats not technically true, I have 2, but the second is only a spare bike for when the first is broken and is very similar in ethos/style to the first.

If I had more than one style/type of mountain bike, regardless of which bike I was riding at the time , I'd always be wishing I was on the other bike at some point in a ride.

I like both my 650b bike AND my 26 😀

I'm not really qualified to comment on the pros and cons of 650b, being such an average rider and probably wouldn't know the difference, after a 650b trail bike purchase, all i can say is that out on the trails the bike feels awesome, i am sure it out rides my previous bike, the emperors new clothes maybe, but it feels better, in fact i'm riding so well now, i might even enter the EWS 😉

What part does fork offset play? I also have some 40mm 160 Mazz forks that could play with

How much would you pay for some 46mm offset solo air pikes - from a Giant Reign? I will probably end up selling them for some Fox 36s at some point. I believe Mattocs are 42 or 44mm offset and the new x-fusion closed cartridge damper forks are 46mm offset as well.

All of these means the steering will sharpen up a bit and be less floppy!

I actually think 650b/26 sounds like a great idea, a bit more rollover and comfort where it matters...a small wheel for easier manuals and faster acceleration at the rear. If you have a spare 26 inch wheel lying about - why not!

The 46mm pikes would make the handling heavier/slacker?

A lower offset on a slack HA would counter the HA somewhat? Sharpen the steering? Or is it vice versa

No, believe it or not increasing the offset speeds up steering. This is why 29er forks have 51mm offsets.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-the-Point-Wheel-Diameter-VS-Fork-Offset.html

Happy to help out Hora if you have any other questions, I know what its like to be a little OCD. 😛

Lets get this right.

Trail is the the distance between the tyre contact patch and projected steering axis to the ground, it is a result of the steering axis not being vertical (HA).

Imagine zero rake, the steering axis will intersect the ground in front of the point in which the wheel contacts the ground.

When you add rake, you bring the contact point of the wheel forward in relation to the steering axis, shortening trail.

No rake = more trail = more stability at high speed (flop (instability) at low speed)

Rake = less trail = less stability and high speed (less flop more (stability) at low speed)

Make sense?

Haven't read the PB link above, but anticipate explanations of the difference in trail, different wheel sizes produce, hence why different wheel sizes can have different HAs and offsets, but end up with same trail, hence similar steering.

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/liteville-601-mk-2-review-2015.html

Some more interesting reading about different wheel sizes on the same frame

If it helps I just rode a 650b bronson C back to back with my 26" Bandit.

The bronson felt really high and unwieldy compared to my bandit. I'm sure I could get used to it but I was happy to get back on the bandit.