Forum menu
Just to upset the apple cart.....Tired, you didn’t fancy the Elite Crono bottle cage? Save you at least 0.05 of a watt....I’ve got it on mine just for the sake of it. Big respect for the solo breakaway, I dream of being able to do that, being a lightweight powder puff power guy it ain’t ever going to happen.
Boblo, it was the original foil that gave aero bikes the reputation for being a bone shaking harsh ride. That was back at the start of the last decade, I’m sure it will be a great ride now. Always had a soft spot for them but never owned one. Isn’t the addict the lightweight race bike?
And a solo 25 lap breakaway in the only race I’ve won. Sometimes aero is faster. Sadly the chance of this happening again either by my fitness of the bunch not letting me are now slim 🙂
You need to take them by surprise, turn up on a shit heap with MTB helmet. I won an E/1/2 at Hillingdon on my cross bike (with road wheels), solo as they didn’t think I’d stay away and gave me too much rope. Cheers Y’all.
Tired, you didn’t fancy the Elite Crono bottle cage
Funny you should say that - I do have one of those on the TT bike. It's aero, but it's absolutely rubbish as a bottle. I race with someone who uses two of them. They are terrible.
I won an E/1/2 at Hillingdon on my cross bike (with road wheels), solo as they didn’t think I’d stay away and gave me too much rope.
Those wily vets know that they can't let me go any more after that race. Funny enough I won a middlemarkers open TT on the Saturday before, then died in a Tuesday night E1/2 at the 'don, only to go off the front on lap 2 on the Wednesday and stay away!
That Propel is faster than my Defy. I've tested this multiple times with and without fancy kit (on both bikes). With a power meter to assess speed for 200 watts. I've also raced the Defy and it is harder work. AS others will attest, geometry and stiffness are what matter most. The Propel is comfortable over 100 miles. So is the Defy. Position is actually the same on both bikes. Handling a tiny bit slower on the Defy.
But look at those wheels 😀
Slower, lighter and posher bike.
That orbea is lovely and not too many about, always liked the look of orbeas since seeing them in Sandy Wallace's (inverkeithing) years ago. He was quite successful racing on them too from memory. Don't think orbeas are known to be super light weight though.
After a suggestion off someone on here I can't seem to get the Allez sprint out of my head. It would be totally impractical and I don't even race but it looks an awesome bike for a couple of hours blasting along back roads. Love the colour schemes you can get them in too (not all of them as some are a bit extravert for me). Always thought specialized was too common for me as well but I've never seen one of them about. A pal used to say "they were like clitorises. Every c### has got one". He rode a specialized Rockhopper. 😀
After a suggestion off someone on here I can’t seem to get the Allez sprint out of my head. It would be totally impractical and I don’t even race but it looks an awesome bike for a couple of hours blasting along back roads.
I rode a fair bit with one of the guys in the club who has an Allez Sprint. It seemed a bit stiff to be comfortable to me, but he loved it and was pretty quick on it. He's a lot younger than me so seemed to cope fine doing 4 or 5 hour rides on it. I suspect I wouldn't!
I'd want to keep my Ritchey for longer rides as it's very comfy.
Footflaps, you know there are custom paint options for the Orca?
You can change the fork if you don’t like the detailing, suspect it may increase the lead time though.
I’m torn between this and building up an Addict as a longer project.
Footflaps, you know there are custom paint options for the Orca?
You can change the fork if you don’t like the detailing, suspect it may increase the lead time though.
Yes, seen that, not asked about lead time, waiting for a few Qs on sizing to be answered as thier frame dimension diagram is very odd, it shows measurementss from edge of tubes rather than the centre (or poss it's just a crap diagram), which with fat tubes makes a big difference to TT length etc...
If you don't like the Orbea colours I thought they let you customize
When I bought my Giant TCR SL2, I asked the shop to put it on the scales and it came in at 6.8kg. That was under £2.5k and was with Ultegra and stock wheels. I think Giant are pretty good on that front, as they make their own frames, so have the budget to include pretty good wheels in the mix
You need to take them by surprise, turn up on a shit heap with MTB helmet. I won an E/1/2 at Hillingdon on my cross bike (with road wheels), solo as they didn’t think I’d stay away and gave me too much rope. Cheers Y’all.p
You only get away with that once!
Many years ago at Lancaster crit (Salt Ayre circuit) a guy turned up on his commuter road bike, still with the cable lock wrapped round the seatpost. Faded old "pro team" jersey. Classic newbie 4th cat.
The sole reason he didn't win was because he had zero idea of tactics - turned out he was a triathlete so super strong, able to sit there and TT for ages. It was only when he'd been sitting at + 1/2 a lap for 30 minutes that everyone was like "shit, we're going to have to reel him in..."
If he'd have attacked about 10 minutes later, he'd have won it hands down. No-one gave him an inch after that!
I used to do flat crits on my SS road bike quite a bit for that reason, no-one took you seriously. Again, it needed favourable circumstances because once it got above 35mph in a sprint, I simply couldn't pedal that fast so I could only place from a breakaway. If it hadn't worked out with 3 laps to go, I'd just drift to the back and stay out of the way.
That was all good until: 'it came in at 6.8kg'. Mebbies the shop needs their scales calibrating... 😉
Was quite impressed by Rose bikes, think I knew they existed, but not seen their weights.
Sorry, this is the last I'll say about Rose, I promise I'm not connected to the company in any way, I'm just having a mini-love affair with mine right now. I've always enjoyed riding it but doing some routine maintenance now (cables, chains etc) and realise how well put together and how well specced even my relatively budget Xeon Team was, not a single corner cut, all the little details perfect e.g. provision and position of inline cable adjusters, inline QR for rear brake (mounted under chainstays) etc.
Also bear in mind the added value of being able to customise most of the customisables, e.g. gear ratios, crank lengths, tyres, saddles, bar widths, stem lengths. Can save a lot if you're a micro-adjuster like I am and run odd sizes of everything!
Bit of shame they're now going down the butt-ugly weird integrated headset spacer path. Seems a lot of effort and proprietary parts just for no visible cables...
Bit of shame they’re now going down the butt-ugly weird integrated headset spacer path. Seems a lot of effort and proprietary parts just for no visible cables…
Just looks so clean though, will be pretty much standard on all half decent bikes soon.
Just looks so clean though
Yeah, but for those of us determined still to run mechanical gears and cable operated brakes, it's very much form over function, how many extra bends in the cable just to get it through the headset area? For what gain? At least internal cable routing largely seems to allow smoother routes, so arguably probably offers form + function
I guess I could live with proprietary spacers, not something you're likely to break or lose in the middle of nowhere.
You only get away with that once!
Correct. Although it was a couple of weeks before the Cross worlds so I was going pretty well! The other 2 I won there were from a small groups as I was shit at large bunch sprinting. My usual role was to keep it hot for the last few laps so our real sprinter could
do his thing.
Yeah, but for those of us determined still to run mechanical gears and cable operated brakes, it’s very much form over function, how many extra bends in the cable just to get it through the headset area? For what gain? At least internal cable routing largely seems to allow smoother routes, so arguably probably offers form + function
I guess I could live with proprietary spacers, not something you’re likely to break or lose in the middle of nowhere.
“Determined.....”
Makes it sound like the people who were still clinging on to 26 inch bikes years ago, but now moved on . In 5 or 10 years time what will the ratio of mechanical to Di2 be I wonder?
Having everything ran through the steerer tube and stem makes things more aero from what I’ve read, but I can’t vouch for it, no cables in the wind . Marginal gains and all that.
The aero effects of cables are barely detectable in wind tunnel testing. Seriously it looks good, but if it’s 0.5W, then you are doing well. Put your water bottle on the seat tube for a bigger effect.
https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/water-bottle-testing
I like my road bikes manual, but I like my TT bikes button press. It’s a lot nicer not having to think about shifting after 10 hours in the saddle.
Im with you I'd like di2 on the TT bike for sure.
No desire for it on the road bike. I'm that guy who would forget to charge it before a big Day out.
Re the hidden cables in the stem. - the way they have done it have improved the situation far from the old propels mid top tube vertical entry. (Aesthetically)
As for introduction of drag and tight curves.... Because it's a cockpit system - it works together well. The exit from the bars and the entry to the stem are pretty much alligned. Then there's a hood over the stem allowing to have a shallow curve round into the back of the stem and then a shallow curve back into the downtime .....it's not perfect but it's far from shifting issues.
Can I ask for some wheel advice please?
I’ve just weighed my 2015 Domane 2 (aluminium) with the bathroom scales method. With pedals, cages, sensor it comes in at 9.6kg. It’s a rim brake too.
I was thinking of a nice “light” carbon bike with discs. The Domane SL 5 is 9.9kg or Edmonda SL6 disc 8.2kg
I weighed the wheels (inc cassette, skewers stock tubes and tyres I wasn’t that sad to take them off) and they came in at 3kg.
Can anyone give me a rough idea what the wheels on their own may weigh please? Looks like that may be an easier way of saving weight. ( but it won’t be a new bike time 😕)
Cassette will be ~300-400g (depends on range)
Skewers ~150g total
Tubes ~150g each if bog standard ~25c
Tyres A non-premium ~25c such as Grand Sport Races would be ~300g each
So ~1350g ballpark.
A pair of 25mm GP5000s and a pair of Supersonic tubes would drop that total by ~350g.
Stock tires @360 each
Cassette at 350
Tubes and skewars....
Suggests those wheels will be about 1850 .
Not that much of a saving to be had as you would think how ever I'd question the accuracy of your weight.
Plus if you go carbon you get to have brakes that are suggestive at best
If you do want nice lighter wheels I'd go down the novatec hplus son hand built route with some nice tires rather than spending a fortune on carbon rims
Cheers- that’s quite a drop just for the rubber.
It’s a triple so if I swap to a double I might save a bit there too!
FB-ATB
Subscriber
Can anyone give me a rough idea what the wheels on their own may weigh please?
What tyres, what cassette?
If you have Schwalbe One's/GP5000's and a DA cassette, the derived number will be a lot different than if you have low end tackle.
He said stock.
Good news is his stock tires are heavy at 350 so gp4000s is a big saving @215
Supersonics another 50 grams an end.....not a change id make mind.
Could wipe out half a kilo in rubber and skewars quite quick and cheap
Makes it sound like the people who were still clinging on to 26 inch bikes years ago, but now moved on . In 5 or 10 years time what will the ratio of mechanical to Di2 be I wonder
Yes it does seem like roadies are now falling for all the marketing bollocks too and getting new bikes with increasing frequency.
Also if you are going to swap tyres to gp 4000 or 5000 the. It makes sense to swap your inner tubes as well. A latex inner tube will be a weight saving and a plusher ride combined with the new rubber.
Aye, I was indirectly questioning the 1350g wheel weight suggested up there ^
Conti's are more like 220g per now and Supersonic's (which I've used without even a suggestion of imminent death for ~20 years) are 50g each. Cooking Hunt's or similar are 1500g a pair and a DA cassette 190g?
So for ~£600-£650 @FB-ATB could save approx 1000g... Go for carbon wheels and the light SRAM cassette and that could be ~1200g but for a few more £'s....
Supersonics..not a change id make mind.
Any reason for that or just personal preference?
When they let go it's always sudden.
trail_rat
Member
When they let go it’s always sudden.
As counter point, I've used Supersonic's for ~20 years and thousands of miles including descending most of the classic Alpine cols and I don't appear to be a red smear on the road. I have never (yet) had one go bang 'all of a sudden'.
Make of that what you will.
It's ok.
Modern technology gave us tubeless so we don't have to worry about that arguement anyway.
Ooo heavier tubeless? Where do I sign? 😁
Indeed. But like disks. Things that simply funtion better are worth a small penalty.
Unless of course your chasing for a hill climb champs trophy mind.
And that's why current en pointe lightweight stuff is heavier than non in vogue stuff.
Discs and disc frames are heavier than calipers and caliper frames. There are arguably some maintenance benefits of discs and definitely some longer term wear benefits but the argument about superior breaking from discs on road bikes is a bit of a fallacy save perhaps carbon in the wet. We all know braking is limited on road bikes anyway and that limit is not usually braking friction/retardation related.
As for tubeless, at the lightweight end of the spectrum, they're heavier than tubed. The tyres are heavier and are heavier again when jizz and a spare tube is included. Rolling resistance is supposed to be lower than tubed so there should be a benefit there though I don't know if it offsets the weight increase. Does anybody?
So, we have a fashion for discs and tubeless in roadbikes. Solutions looking for problems that has lead to increases in overall weight that is being poo pooed under the 'aero is King' mantra. I'll have aero, calipers, tubed and low weight please. 😉
I wondered why this thread had run on for so long. Expected to see people dragging footflaps for his idea of 'mid range', wasn't disappointed. Also misleading use of stats too, could be a Tory minister with lines like that 🙂
However I'm now off to check out Rose bikes for my own prospective purchase; I'd been imagining it would be mid range but now I'm not so sure!
TiRed - TCC kit, are you Twickenham local?
I’ll have aero, calipers, tubed and low weight please
This will be my approach with my next bike.
Its in danger of going down the CTC we have always done it this way change is bad mmmkay in here.
Light and aero is possible just have to open the wallet a bit wider
I'm off to ride my lardy bike
Thanks for the comments re wheels etc. Looks like I’ll have to tak the tyres off to get a better idea of the wheel weight🤪!
If I’m going to start cheaply, tubes, tyres & skewers will have to come off regardless! If I venture to wheels as well I’d have to get them anyway!
I’m their Windsor outpost.
My Propel SL is light enough. I could drop half a kilo with dura ace and some posher carbon wheels. But the frame is actually heavier than the Defy (the lightest frame Giant ever made). It sports quite a heavy arione saddle as the original lighter one split. I can’t see disc and Di2 being lighter than calliper and manual. Even the forks must be heavier for the braking stresses.
Pro bikes have access to lighter finishing kit and their frames are seldom what you are buying in the shop. Even sworks, Advanced SL and highest spec Trek. They have their own production with custom geometry and layups. You can however always drop a bit with a carbon saddle, very light bars and stem. But really? Think how much half a water bottle weighs.
7.something low kilos will always feel like a light bike when you lift it down off the hook. That’s a nice feeling and you need a lot less money to do that now than you used to.
I always liken accessibility of bikes to that of F1 cars. You can ride a pro bike for about £10k. Of real money. That’s pretty accessible. Ok it’s down to priorities (think what your car costs for example), but not out of touch for many. You can’t access F1 technology. Not even close. At any reasonable budget. I say this to people when I take my race bike into the office and they say How much??!!
Discs and disc frames are heavier than calipers and caliper frames. There are arguably some maintenance benefits of discs and definitely some longer term wear benefits but the argument about superior breaking from discs on road bikes is a bit of a fallacy save perhaps carbon in the wet. We all know braking is limited on road bikes anyway and that limit is not usually braking friction/retardation related.
The main spur for me to move to discs was the ability to run 28mm tyres with good clearance - the braking is better modulated too and it's facilitated the use of full carbon rims (I had RS81s before).
There's a notable weight penalty swapping previous gen Ultegra caliper to the same generation disc, but improved power transfer via the stiffer frame seems to counterbalance that a bit when climbing.
I’ll have aero, calipers, tubed and low weight please.
And there's no one correct answer is there. Personally I do predominantly hilly rides and I don't care how fast I am on the flat bits between the climbs, so I'm not that fussed on aero. Though I'd like to try it.
Whereas we probably all agree the OP should prioritise aero over weight for the Cambs flatlands, though I'm not sure we've convinced him yet.
He should try the Rutland Alps, that'd redefine his priorities... 😁
You're right though Chaka, there is no 'right' answer. Well, except for having one of each type/genre but if poor old Ben was getting stick for one £5k bike...😲
I was gonna keep my old CR1 SL as a "climbing bike", until used bike prices went bonkers.
It feels strangely liberating to just have one road bike now though.