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6.8kg Road bike.... but why? Its widely accepted that up to something like a 7% gradient aero is quicker and on the flat this is enforced even more.
My new very aero road bike with 48mm carbon wheels (DT ones) Di2 and hydro discs is quoted at 7.6kg sans pedals, so add some pedals, a couple of cages, a fancy computer mount that bolts under the stem and hey presto you're at lets say 8.2kg. Its considerably faster than the very definitely 1/2 kilo or so non-aero bike it replaced and even on climbs steeper than 7% its as fast as its considerably stiffer so more of tha powers gets to the road, but its also nearly as comfortable thanks to a 27.2mm D shaped aero carbon post, the right saddle choice, carbon aero bars and nice comfortable tape.
I know plenty of people with amazing scales that log bikes at fantastic weights that would trouble some professional weight weenies if they were actually realistic.
More importantly and something I mentioned in my first post is bike fit. Most places might even credit the cost of the fit against the purchase price. So look at a few shops that are well respected for bike fitting and carry some of the options you like and go from there.
I have bought from Sigma and Bespoke in the past. Both very good, but prefer Bespoke.
No point having an aero bike, if you have to ride it with loads of spacers and on the hoods all the time.
Hi 13thMonk, I used to work at QM in Edinburgh about 4 years ago (I was at McGill's) and you were one of the consultants I think. Small world.
I do most of my riding these days either riding with the kids or on my jack jones on my SS riding around Beecraigs but I did go out last night with my pal on the road bike (now that we're allowed) and did a loop over to Bathgate which went up Puir Wife Bray, that's a good climb especially when you then head over carnpapple.
Drop me a mail if you fancy meeting up sometime or if you're ever heading over linlithgow way oneeyeianatgmaildotcom
Ian
This sounds very light. Is it disc or rim brake?
A caad12 disk won't be weighing 7.3kg that's for sure. Especially not with 105 and not especially light wheels. My bike has a lighter frame, lighter wheels, lighter groupset..and yet weighs considerably more.
But it's not just weight folks exaggerate about. Lots of folks go on about how their aero bike is far faster than a normal one. In reality, at full pelt it's probably going to be about a minute faster over 50 miles tops...and how many folks ride at full pelt for 50 miles unless you are in a break away in a pro race?
Basically, i suspect folks have shiny bikes they have spend obscene amounts of cash on and exaggerate the benefits of their purchase to somehow justify it to themselves..me included
Basically, i suspect folks have shiny bikes they have spend obscene amounts of cash on and exaggerate the benefits of their purchase to somehow justify it to themselves
Yep, most people would be fine on something like a £1K Specialized Allez Elite but where is the fun in that.
I agree that weight isn't everything as when I built up my Ritchey using 105, mostly components from planetx (albeit pretty light parts) and a hope/stans wheelset I already had (because I was poor) with the intention of upgrading everything. But it rode so well I just couldn't justify the hundreds of pounds needed to lose 1kg. I've ridded 200km audaxes, 100 mile sportives in the borders and highlands and have even taken it to the French alps and it was great at all those rides. I still have a sneaky look at fancy Ritchey builds on the web sometimes though which starts me making up upgrade spreadsheets.
Anyone have experience of riding an aero bike as their only road bike living in the central belt of Scotland?
Never mind an Aero bike, I see a noticeable difference between my two "endurance" bikes on some of the rough roads round here (that being Balerno and into West Lothian in my case). My ancient Roubaix is a bit more compliant and has a more relaxed riding position than my SLR Endurance - over distance that makes it faster even though they're very close in weight.
Since moving back to Edinburgh I've not ridden my time trial bike yet but suspect that's going to be quite uncomfortable on some of the local roads!
I hired a carbon Colnago with Di2 Ultegra groupset when on a family holiday in Majorca a couple of years ago, it was good but I still prefered my Ritchey.
When we hired bikes from Decathlon for a cycling holiday around lake Como last year, the bikes were pretty standard alloy bikes with 105 groupsets. I was really impressed with them, just shows how good a £1k bike is. I'd still have been on my Ritchey though (see a trend?)
It's the OP's money and of he wants to spend £5k on a bike then I am very happy for him and a bit jealous. 😀
Cheers epicsteve for the info. Indeed the road surfaces in Scotland can be a bit rough, when watching the tour of Britain last year the commentator described the surface in Scotland as being "heavy" and knocks a considerable amount off the riders average speed, never heard that description before.
The worst I've seen (for a complete road surface I mean not just a normal road with a load of potholes and parches as there is too many of them to mention) is the climb out of Slamannon, it makes your glasses bounce off your face!
No point having an aero bike, if you have to ride it with loads of spacers and on the hoods all the time.
you ride in the drops all the time ?
I guess the alternative is to get a bike with a longer headtube so you have zero adjustability in how high the stem sits if over time say - your flexibility gets better or you change tact. id chop out about 3cm of spacers if all i planned to do was evening league road races but my bike is set up so i can do 250k rides.
But i guess it depends if you had a bike fit via the Illuminati rules or via a prescribed protocol
being “heavy” and knocks a considerable amount off the riders average speed, never heard that description before.
T
it sure is . did 200k on sunday out to glenshee and it was about 3 kph slower than a similar length route on the majorcan silk roads - even though we went over sa colabra
Nice one. Never managed So Calabra as I wasn't fit enough. I did a loop from Alcudia up the tough - and first alpine type switchback - climb of Coll de Soller and back down the lovely descent into Pollenca. Would like to go back.
Why the adversity to disks tired ?
Your "mine" might be singular 😉 . I like to switch wheels between bikes. I also don't like rubbing. My favorite wheels by far are my HED Jet 6/9 with alloy brake tracks. The 6 is deployed on the front of the TT bike, TT Propel and Road Race Propel. They also go well on the Defy, but that's for looks. Giant's Carbon SLR aero carbon wheels are my stock for that bike.
Also Hydraulics and concealed cables. I want a light stiff frame and the ability to work on it. And whatever anyone says, a disc braked wheel cannot be as aero as a hidden front brake.
If you want an aero bike with a long headtube, you want a Propel. Headtube is as long as my Defy. Not Specialized Roubaix tall, but the medium is long enough that I don't need spacers. And I am no yoga bunny. I need about a cm of spacers on a conventional medium road bike frame.
@joebristol - It's rim brake. Carbon hylix in-line seatpost, ti railed saddle, Cube carbon bars, carbon stem top cap..... Actually thinking about it a bit more....only the STI levers and the front mech are 105 😳🤣. The rear mech is a Microsoft Arsis, 165mm Ultegra cranks and Dura Ace rim calipers.
Mostly eBay secondhand or Chinese carbon. And I bought the bike in the sale. I know it's not disc and aero but just illustrating that a few sensible kit choices can lose a chunk of weight without massive expense.
This thread has been quite funny to follow it's gone from the OP observing that a £5k bike with many of the expected bells and whistle (Aero/di2/discs) is a heavier than expected proposition and from a bit of criticism over the definition of "mid range" to what seems like a broad acceptance that if you want those features and to be threatening the UCI weight limit you're probably going to have to spend what £7k(+)...
Which then sort of begs the question, if you were spending £5k (I can wish) on a "for best" road bike, what compromises could you accept and why?
My own first thought was, why not trade off the discs and Di2 options, you can still get a rim braked aero frameset and mechanical/rim braked ultegra an have change for some fancy wheels and finishing kit to drive the weight down. Just accept you'll need a winter bike or at least some Al training wheels and you've got that lightweight aero whip...
But then I though a bit more and TBH I don't reckon I'd notice an extra kilo and a half as much as all that and while I want di2, it's not quite a need, I'd be inclined to trade away the di2 option and accept a weight more around 7.5ish kg for t he sake of having an aero disc bike that is probably more "future proof" in terms of wheels/tyres and where drivetrain are headed (at some point I reckon shimano will simply stop certain lines from including a non-disc option)...
I do think there are probably some bargains to be had on non-disc road bikes over the next year or two, but that is going to start drying up as the OEMs begin to ditch rim brakes...
Its not singular how ever I did decide to move lockstock into this century with my new bike when I realised that any decent groupset would not be backwards compatible with my "good wheels" or my other road bikes/TT bike
That has the advantage of keeping my good bike off the turbo as it's set up with a 10 speed same as all our other bikes.
Propel is a lone wolf sure thing.
But then I though a bit more and TBH I don’t reckon I’d notice an extra kilo and a half as much as all that and while I want di2, it’s not quite a need, I’d be inclined to trade away the di2 option and accept a weight more around 7.5ish kg for t he sake of having an aero disc bike that is probably more “future proof” in terms of wheels/tyres and where drivetrain are headed (at some point I reckon shimano will simply stop certain lines from including a non-disc option)…
Think I'd probably agree here. That weight feels about right for a compromise on price and longevity and I'd choose a light bike with discs over DI2 every day of the week.
Rim brake bikes will unquestionably become more niche over time, probably focused on racing more than endurance bikes, but on the plus side, I'm sure we'll see disc bikes get closer in weight and aero at the same time.
my compromise was not having Di2
I wanted disks and i wanted carbon wheels. weight wasn't even that much of a consideration as i could do to lose 10kg my self before i'm back at my former glory of hillclimbing. I'm very much a rolling terrain headwind blocker for the group specialist now 😀
I was gonna have mechanical advance 2 disk 105 green model + adding some chinese carbon wheels (as its our team colour no less) until my old boss cut me a deal on the advance 1 ultegra for a similar enough price to the 2 before adding the wheels.
Calls for a spreadsheet!!!!
Hi 13thMonk, I used to work at QM in Edinburgh about 4 years ago (I was at McGill’s) and you were one of the consultants I think. Small world.
Ha, good to hear from you! Yeah I remember now we sneaked a bit of bike chat in to progress meetings now and then...
Linlithgow is a regular destination on my rides, either coming along the coast from SQ on the gravel bike or through the Alps on the road bike.
Will drop you a line, have hijacked this thread enough 😀
Rim brake bikes will unquestionably become more niche over time
That's why I keep trying to persuade people to buy them, to maintain enough demand that there's still a decent selection on the market when I'm next ready to buy! A lot of European manufacturers don't seem quite ready to ditch them yet thankfully.
@tpbiker & Blazin saddles; Just re-weighed it & you're right. Actually bang on 7.8kg w/o pedals or all the other crap we hang on our light weight bikes to make them useable. I think i combobulated myself with the weight of the 8.3kg 10 year old Roubaix it replaced.
Then i weighed it again with the following sportivey crap & some pedals attached;
Garmin & mount
2 x blinky lights
2 x cages
Micro emergency pump (which i actually used the other day to help someone with a soft tyre).
saddle bag with 2 tubes, 2 canisters & a tool.
Pedals & knee saver extensions.
9.1kg:(
Still, at least it looks good (in my eyes).
It’s very doable but probably not off the shelf, and probably not with Discs. Depending on the size, a cannondale supersix evo rim brake frame pre 2020, built up with Ultegra, a careful wheel choice and a smattering of carbon finishing kit should get you there including pedals:cages for well under 5k. Get close to £5k and you can have deep section wheels too!
My 58cm supersix with ultegra and bora 35s was 6.8 on the dime, including arundal cages, speedplay zeros and alu bars. It’s still the same weight with etap, 50mm scribe clinchers and carbon bars.
Also possible with a CAAD, although you’ll probably have to be more spendy on wheels and groupset!
I can’t work out how to quote. But to answer Trail-Rat’s question;
“you ride in the drops all the time ?
I guess the alternative is to get a bike with a longer headtube so you have zero adjustability in how high the stem sits if over time say – your flexibility gets better or you change tact. id chop out about 3cm of spacers if all i planned to do was evening league road races but my bike is set up so i can do 250k rides.
But i guess it depends if you had a bike fit via the Illuminati rules or via a prescribed protocol“
No I don’t. But I am comfortable riding in the drops, which is more than you can say about a lot of people riding aggressive geometry bikes, where they would probably be more suited to something less aggressive - and consequently they would probably be more aero on a bike that fitted them better.
I have had two fits - one by James (now Richmond cycles) and one by Bespoke. They are both pretty much spot on the same - and both striking the right balance between comfort and power. Both bikes also allow for some reduction in stack, should I want to.
As I said, I would always prioritise fit first and then choose the bike. Particularly when spending that sort of money.
My Open Upper with carbon wheels (1460g) full Bontrager XXX carbon finishing kit, Dura Ace/GRX Di2, tubeless 32mm tyres, carbon crankset is 7.35kg, weighed on proper, calibrated bike weighing scales on my prep stand. It’s a 56cm, so middle of the road for size and whilst it is a gravel frame, it’s a damn light one. That weigh also includes a Bell, light and Garmin mounts.
Lighter hubs would save weight, smaller tyres...maybe, but I’d need heavier rims to cope with the higher pressures.
With 50mm rims, I’d be paying a 200g penalty, so 7.5kg.
joebristol
Subscriber
@mtbtomoMy Cannondale CAAD12 105 with saddle, seatpost and bars swapped out, ~1600g wheels and tubeless tyres weighs ~7.3kg.
This sounds very light
Very polite way of saying 'I call bullshit' 🙃 It may be true but sounds very unlikely.
My CR1 SL with pedals, cages and Garmin mount weighs 7.2kg on the household fat bastard scales. I've weighed it on some luggage scales at 6.7kg which I much prefer (obv) but don't believe.
I don't use my nice roadbikes in crap weather as I have more suitable disc/mudguard bedecked bikes for that. This means lighter rim brakes are the order of the day for me. Obv if I was, riding in crap, I'd go disks. I also prefer not to use electronic shifting. I've spent a career in IT and don't want it polluting my shiny bikes - Garmin excepted.
I have never measured by bikes mass, I'm happier that way.
Rim brake bikes will unquestionably become more niche over time
That’s why I keep trying to persuade people to buy them, to maintain enough demand that there’s still a decent selection on the market when I’m next ready to buy! A lot of European manufacturers don’t seem quite ready to ditch them yet thankfully.
Are you certain?
I think the rim calliper's days as part of the DA, Ultegra and maybe even 105 groups are getting numbered.
The main indicator for me is the fact that Tiagra now has a hydraulic disc option, I'm theorising that this was in response to mounting pressure from the big OEM buyers, the likes of Trek/SBC/Giant/Canyon are probably getting sick of having to offer two versions of every bloody model over ~£1k. it means twice the tooling, having to source two types of wheel at each price point, it doubles up the logistics, puts a significant dent in any bulk purchase discounts and increasingly they won't be able to get away with just fitting cable discs, cos they're shite...
Don't get me wrong, I'm still rolling about on a Rim braked bike (for summer road duties) and I'm currently eyeing up R8000 bits to fit and take it through the next few years, but when it eventually gets replaced it's going to have to be for a Disc braked ego-chariot.
There's going to be a brief period where you can get come bargains on 100/130 OLD wheels/frames/forks and related bits, but that's bound to be followed by more and more suppliers only offering wheels with a brake track as either a budget or extremely niche product.
Plus nobody wants to brake on carbon rims anyway...
Nah Discs are the inevitable future.
Never heard of Open bikes until this thread, they look lovely but they make Santa Cruz and Niner look affordable. I'm sure they're good but way above what I'd be willing (or able 😭) to pay for a plastic bike frame or any bike frame come to think of it.
My Carbonda CFR696 again with Bontrager carbon finishing kit, this time with 1x11 GRX Di2 drivetrain (SRAM Force crank) with 1550g wheels and the same tyres is 7.8kg. I could get more weight out of the UP by changing the cassette form an XTR 11-40 to an Ukterfra 11-28, but, meh.
My Defy Advanced Pro with Ultegra Di2, upgraded SLR Carbon bars and stem and 28mm tubeless tyres is 8.3kg including pedals, Garmin mount and two cages. I was slightly surprised to find that my Gradient with 2x11 GRX Di2, Hunt Carbon Gravel Wides and 43mm Gravel Kings is only one kg heavier, also with pedals, Garmin mount and two cages. I have a bit of a rep as a weight weenie for my MTBs, but I'm fine with the weight of these two.
Ukterfra! 🤯
For 5k you are not going to get a world cup level bike. Simple as.
Just look at the prices.
Frame 2.5 – 3k
Groupset 1k at least – that is ultegra or force, not DA or Red
Wheels 2kAnd then you still need stem, bars, seatpost, saddle, headset – easily another 1k
What about power meter?
Off the shelves Canyon may get you close (ish) but still not world cup level.
I spend “a little” more a couple of years ago and got a custom Festka frame, complete Sram Red etap disc, Knight wheels, carbon components, Chris King headset and Quark power meter. It is closer to 8 kg I would say, but it is unique and the bike I wanted – and it fits me like a glove.
I’ve read through most nearly every reply to this thread (sad I know). Very interesting. I agree with the above, I don’t think a 6"8kg Di2 Road Bike for 5k would happen without compromise. You’d probably have to ditch the aero carbon wheels. And what the hell is a semi aero frame from Rose bikes? Semi aero come on., either aero or not.
For me I do think aero is just as important as weight, or nearly more important. I don’t see why you would be obsessive over weight.
Is it just a lockdown challenge you’ve set yourself??
And as a rider of Di2 I would never go back to mechanical again, even if there is a small weight penalty..
Just pick a bike you like the look of that fits your measurements. Bianchi, Merida, Cannondale, They are all going to feel similar at 5k.
https://road.cc/content/feature/lightweight-v-aero-which-best-227520
Aero is king unless riding a lot of steeper gradients.
Aero is king unless riding a lot of steeper gradients.
Or do a lot of miles on shite roads, in which case I suspect more a comfortable option could prove faster than either an aero bike or a lightweight one.
Several folks in my clubs had fast/light bikes as well as Roubaix's (they were the most popular bike in the club) and most of them reckoned over the course of a long day the Roubaix was actually faster.
And what the hell is a semi aero frame from Rose bikes? Semi aero come on., either aero or not.
I haven't seen the Rose you mention, but I thought "semi-aero" was kind of the new normal for road frames - this kind-of tubing shape...
Or do a lot of miles on shite roads, in which case I suspect more a comfortable option could prove faster than either an aero bike or a lightweight one.
Likewise, bigger tyres seem to be creeping onto "race" bikes (or bigger clearances at least, so riders have the option).
I've been really impressed with how comfy 28mm tubeless tyres feel on my usual roads, and I think the Supersix I posted above can take 30mm.
Will anyone really need a Roubaix?
This is what I meant by semi-aero (dropped stays, slightly flared seat tube/seat stay junction/head tube details). But fair cop, they're really just cosmetic aero enhancements that appeal to people like me who don't actually really want proper aero.
On that note, what is the real difference in ride quality between an aero bike and say a lightweight endurance bike? If we de-coupled 'actual speed' from 'feeling fast' then would a lightweight bike actually feel faster e.g. more responsive? That's the difference I feel between my 9.5kg Allez with mudguards and my 8kg Rose, the Rose just feels punchier and more fun which encourages bigger efforts on hills.
I'd always got the impression that yeah, aero is faster, but don't those little sprints and accelerations suffer? What happens when you're riding the backroads of West Lothian with all sorts of field edge 90degree turns, blind hedgerow junctions and punchy little dips and climbs etc. Isn't aero less comfortable due to deeper section frame tubes and wheels? Why don't all the pros ride aero bikes for the Spring classics?
These are my justifications for pursuing lightweight, I've convinced myself it is more comfortable and 'feels' faster, even if my Strava times might actually benefit from getting a Propel or something...
Edit: as an aside, that bike pictured above, in the plain black finish and (probably) smallest size, is claimed 6.8kg for £2,200
Will anyone really need a Roubaix?
There's a definite blurring of the lines now between gravel and road (all-road I suppose). Maybe that partly accounts for the weight just in terms of having a bike capable of handling it without getting rattled around like a bag of bones.
All my road bikes are on 700 x 25 at the moment and I'm pretty sure my ancient Roubaix won't take anything wider (not that it's felt like it needs it). Might check and see if the SLR Endurance will, as wider tyres could maybe make up some of the comfort gap between it and the Roubaix.
Wider than 700 x 25 never really seemed necessary when I was mostly riding in the Essex lanes, but could be worthwhile up here.
There’s a definite blurring of the lines now between gravel and road (all-road I suppose).
Good point, it seems that as road bikes have got more comfy, comfy bikes have got more gravelly.
So I was wrong, plenty of people might need a Roubaix if they want to do a bit of light gravel as well as road.
But fewer people would if just riding on tarmac.
Aero is king unless riding a lot of steeper gradients.
Or do a lot of miles on shite roads, in which case I suspect more a comfortable option could prove faster than either an aero bike or a lightweight one.
Several folks in my clubs had fast/light bikes as well as Roubaix’s (they were the most popular bike in the club) and most of them reckoned over the course of a long day the Roubaix was actually faster.
This might sound a bit cheeky of me, but I imagine some of those folks would be faster and more comfortable on the light / fast / aero bikes versus the Roubaix if their core strength and flexibility was on point (without knowing the age and fitness and weight of the riders).
This is what I meant by semi-aero
Yeah I knew, I was just being a bit tongue and cheek. Also that bike doesn’t fit the OP’s criteria.
I’d always got the impression that yeah, aero is faster, but don’t those little sprints and accelerations suffer? What happens when you’re riding the backroads of West Lothian with all sorts of field edge 90degree turns, blind hedgerow junctions and punchy little dips and climbs etc. Isn’t aero less comfortable due to deeper section frame tubes and wheels? Why don’t all the pros ride aero bikes for the Spring classics?
Well maybe if you’re racing in a bunch, but on my long training rides I try to keep my power consistent and rarely have to slow down for sharp turns or traffic lights.
My aero carbon wheels are much more comfortable than other shallow alloy wheels I’ve used, including my current Krysiriums - cheaper carbon wheels may be a harsher ride I imagine.
Isn’t aero less comfortable? Maybe marginally so, but if you don’t have good core strength and fitness then I don’t think you can be speaking up loudly about that. If you have the core strength of a noodle then don’t get an aero bike and say it’s a harsh ride.
It’s quite obvious why they aren’t used in the likes of the Paris Rubaix mind.
Also, is this thread a stealth plug for the Propel, Madonne, CR1?
This might sound a bit cheeky of me, but I imagine some of those folks would be faster and more comfortable on the light / fast / aero bikes versus the Roubaix if their core strength and flexibility was on point (without knowing the age and fitness and weight of the riders).
Sadly not everyone is a TDF level rider like yourself...
13thfloormonk, I don’t think my aero bike is much different than my endurance bike. That’s a Trek Domane SL with 32mm tyres and my aero bike is a Canyon Aeroad with 23mm tyres. (Domane has the front and rear isospeed thingy that is supposed to make it more comfortable)
Maybe for new riders they could feel more confident on the Domane, less twitchy, 32mm tyres look huge so give a feeling of security. I did 80 miles in the chilterns on the Aeroad, no comfort issues whatsoever. Quite a few hills, rolling country lanes and a lot of broken roads, plus some fast descents. I can’t think of a better bike for that type of riding.
I’ve done a 210 mile ride on a Trek Madone with H1 fit. Again no issues, but I’m not new to cycling.
The Domane is a good bike, I love the 32mm tyres in the winter and for doing light gravel. It is comfortable, but I’d much rather get the Aeroad out of the garage than the Domane.
Speed wise there is a difference, not huge but it’s there. Difficult to quantify scientifically, but anecdotally, I’ve never completed a 20 mile ride at over 22mph on the Domane, but regularly do it on the Aeroad....but I ride the Aeroad mainly when the roads are dry and weather is warmer so would be faster. (That’s a regular max effort training loop I do)
However....the Domane has my PB up a Snowdon climb (long and steep), but that’s likely to be the 50/34 and 11-32. (Other bikes are 52/36 11-28 and 53-39 11-25 (crit racing bikes)
Sadly not everyone is a TDF level rider like yourself…
It doesn’t take much effort or time commitment to develop a bit of core strength and flexibility which makes a huge difference.
It doesn’t take much effort or time commitment to develop a bit of core strength and flexibility which makes a huge difference.
And should we all be on 6.8kg, £5K+, lightweight aero bikes while we're developing what you regard as an acceptable level of fitness?