Thats a shame i saw that a few months ago and quite fancied it, but its way over priced.
If it was made in China it would be £15 so even if you added £10 then its £25 tops.
Will not be buying one and i dont think they will be big sellers.
I'm sure someone from china will be knocking them out soon enough.
Somebody had to buy the mould - they would obviously 'outsource' it to a trade moulder, but they'd still have to buy the mould. no trade moulder would fork out for a mould for such low quantities, IME.
failedengineer - MemberSomebody had to buy the mould - they would obviously 'outsource' it to a trade moulder, but they'd still have to buy the mould. no trade moulder would fork out for a mould for such low quantities, IME.
Yes you're right.... they've took a gamble cause if they don't sell they'll loose the money they've stumped up for the tooling.
I hope they do sell but don't think I'll buy one for that money as they can easily be broke, £25-30 and if the do fittings for RS forks i'd buy one.
twin cavity mould tool for that mudguard about £35-50,000 if made in UK, c.£25,000 in China
I really had no idea that plastic moulds cost anywhere near that.
Is that a typical cost ?
I mean, can I look at any of the plastic items around me now; a tape measure, a timing light, the case for a vernier caliper, a cheap bicycle rear light and know that the mould for it cost tens of thousands of pounds ?
Since when are products priced relative to what they cost to manufacture?
Not sure if they'll sell at that price but the way the industry is going it wouldn't surprise me. Seems prices are constantly increasing as consumers continue to spend.
Hideously over priced and as mentioned looks like it will jam the wheel solid in heavy mud.
A Fender Bender combined with a Crud catcher would achieve the same for a fraction of the cost and without locking the wheel.
IIRC the tooling for the original Dyson (~40 moulds) cost about £750k in the early '90s.
A Fender Bender combined with a Crud catcher would achieve the same for a fraction of the cost and without locking the wheel.
Spot on, at a cost of about £18.
plastic tooling is expensive.
I work in the tool-room of a plastics moulding company, we make parts from Plant vehicles like JCB/Caterpillar etc through to medical equipment.
A moulding tool for the mudguards featured could easily run into several thousands of pounds to manufacture, even more if made from tooling steel rather than aluminium. Add in the costs of the CAD design and the inevitable faffing about from the customer over the design, the initial model tool to make the pre-production samples, the pre-production run of a few hundred parts then it becomes an expensive set up.
P.S. these parts won't come straight from a tool and into a bag, they will need trimming,polishing and maybe (depending on the design) painting, all of which needs people to do it.
To get a return on that sort of investment you either need to be selling them in the tens of thousands or asking for more money per unit..
did i mention way way too expensive 😯
Something is only worth what people will pay for it, in this case it look like it not going to be worth £60 odd quid.
Midlandstrailquestgraham - oh yes, cavity tools are hideously expensive and can take weeks to manufacture. Although i've a background in CNC machining, seeing how a moulding tool is not only machined, but how much hand finishing is required to make the mould work properly was enlightening. A tool like that would require a lot of fine machine finishing as it has a lot of very small radiused edges, all of which need to be perfect otherwise the product can (i.e. WILL) catch when the tool is opened, leading to a jammed tool and a pain in the behind for the tool setters. Also, the surface of the tool has to be very highly polished so that the product will eject easily, as well as leaving a high quality finish.
Also remember that each tool will need a heating system designed into it so that hot water can flow through each half at different temps so that the plastics mix is operating at the optimum temperature.
Putting aside how good a product should be in use or how intelligent the designer might be.. before you splash the cash you HAVE to put yourself in the customers shoes for a moment before going to town on the development of whatever you plan on making and ask yourself about the RRP,the packaging,the function and the look of the product amongst a heap of other things I have failed to add.
First thing's first.. you ask yourself if you would pay retail for a front mudguard that's supposedly one of the best out there at £59.
I sit here typing this and feel confused as I try and picture the folk behind it honestly saying they would have no problem spending fifty nine pounds on this product.Even if they did.. did they all agree that people would happily spend this sort of money considering the prices of crud guards and everything else on the market? Did one of them convince the others? I can't help but see this as something that has snowballed into a product that has ended up costing a hell of a lot more than they predicted.
Hey Muddydwarf.
Does your company make its own moulds or do you buy them in
DH racing isn't cheap anyway, if it works well I expect there will be a few about pretty quickly. Seems a lot to me, but well-designed, functional, solid kit is worth paying for right? So assuming it is, ie it can make the difference in a wet race, it'll sell.
someone is going to buy one, make a mould and flog cheapo carbon ones for less than 59 quid
I would not worry too much [url= http://www.dealextreme.com/ ]THESE LOT [/url] will be making it soon. 😐
Frankers - the firm does both. I'm not a toolmaker but I've been involved in setting up and producing very large pre-production parts (hood assemblies for very big plant vehicles) so I've seen a lot of the work that goes into setting up a new product run.
Defender vs. Dfender
I'd be surprised if they didn't receive a legal letter from Topeak in the next few days instructing them to cease using the Dfender name immediately.
You'd think they'd have a bit more sense than to come up with a name with only one letter changed from a well established product in the same market, especially when their product is so similar (albeit 5 times the price)
The mudguard is strapped to a pair of £900 forks, so it looks cheap by comparison.
Is the correct answer!
Attached to £900 forks on a £2-3K bike with £50+ tyres, stopping your £100 Oakley goggles getting scratched, and allowing you to win/enjoy a downhill race that you spent ££s getting to and staying at.
It's all relative isn't it...
I still have a nice integrated Marzocchi fender on some bombers. They did not cost £60. Old inner tube on another pair of forks. Free
What does that mean re. the mudguard then Brant, I ask as I may have to deal with brand /name stuff in the future.
How does it affect the Topeak stuff as well? Which is branded Defender?
From STW web article
Every single part from prototypes, to tooling to finished parts and even nuts and bolts and packaging are all made in the UK, it’s something that more companies should try! There are still skills in the UK!
There we go talking down the UK manufacturer sector again.. we are still a major world manufacturer...
Rootes, Crud are British made as well, AFAIK.
Their products aren't that stupuidly overpriced.
It's not about "talking down" anything, in fact, as you may see, my original point was that I want to be able to support them, but I think they've gone so far wide of the mark with their pricing that it's simply impossible to see it working. I'd like to be proved wrong, though.
Rootes, Crud are British made as well, AFAIK.Their products aren't that stupuidly overpriced.
It's not about "talking down" anything, in fact, as you may see, my original point was that I want to be able to support them, but I think they've gone so far wide of the mark with their pricing that it's simply impossible to see it working. I'd like to be proved wrong, though.
Comment was in relation to the text on:
http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/we-know-who-is-to-blame-for-the-weather/
rather than on this thread
just to highlight an example of the way everyone assumes the UK makes nothing anymore..
Crud stuff is great - road racer guards are excellent - so much so that I can forgive them for stealing my idea for the Crud Claw many years ago... 😉
Cycraguards are UK made too.
nice idea but you know what they say about a fool and his money 😉
