An hour sounds perfect.
An hour sounds perfect.
57 minutes too long IME 🙂
Were you there Curto? Did you avoid the crash?
Circuit races can be no longer than an hour, typically shorter for lower categories. But 20 minutes is nowhere near long enough (unless you are a junior - U16's are 30 minutes normally). Well done CH, sounds fast and fun, and a few seconds is barely a break, but 13 should be able to stay clear.
Saved myself last night from the Hillingdon E12, but racing later in the vets. Debating tactics in the absence of wind Did a PB 25 TT on Sunday, so we shall see...
<div class="bbp-reply-author">TiRed
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Circuit races can be no longer than an hour, typically shorter for lower categories. But 20 minutes is nowhere near long enough (unless you are a junior – U16’s are 30 minutes normally).
From what I have seen not even the E123s' get no longer than 25-30 minutes. Simply not worth the petrol money or entry fee for that.
Thanks TiRed! It was great. The break had 90seconds by the end of the race with a chase group of three stuck half way.
The remaining bunch had given up long ago so there would have been no pride with managing to hold on to them. Should have bridged.....
Chance for redemption tomorrow with MrBlobby @ anther new venue- Castle Combe 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Interesting race. Let a group of two get away. Bridged fine and was caught. Attacked with two 300 watt laps but dragged back. Then a mate got away and I left him to gain time. Bridged again and off we go opening the gap. Sadly the 40-50 race came by slowed, and generally spoiled it. Comm calls that I am DQ’d despite my beat shouting to keep right. So a lap out and a reinstatement into the bunch.
Attacked hard with two to go, but I’m marked down. Sat in the bunch for the sprint, I pick a good wheel and come in fifth. So 60% of the way to retaining second cat.
Saturday sees a V50 run on its own. Can’t wait! Attack time!
Well done sounds fun! I think they definitely need to use the cut-through more to keep the various races apart. I’m assuming that’s why it was built that way?
A fun race with Mr Blobby at Castle Combe this evening even if it was a bit of a baptism of fire! Its a tough circuit with the two chicanes and some incredibly fast sections.
It sounds like a cop out I'm sure, but I wanted to make it as tough as possible- a training race for future Thruxton rounds.
We saw 30mph+ on the speedo an awful lot and the average speed was 27mph.
Early on I followed a couple of moves and was really pleased when I went with one which fizzled out, then maintained tempo on the front before launching again onto the counter attack. That type of scenario is exactly what I need to practice. Sadly, they were fresh and I wasn't so I couldn't then sustain the move- I need to think carefully about how to address that.
Anyway, each time I would plummet to the back and not then get much of a recovery as the bunch was so very surgey through the chicane back there. You'd be forced to brake and then I'd be doing 900w just to re-join the bunch.
Mr B settled in nicely after a couple of laps and was always right there in a great position, following a few moves too.
On one lap, I came up the leeward side of the bunch with momentum and spotted a gap in front of him, so dive bombing the chicane, I slotted into the gap and was able to make the turn and smoothly power through for once. Carrying the momentum and MrB with me, the bunch went left and one guy went right- solo, so I rode the wave and followed him- with MrB being veritably sucked along in my wake! We got a gap and then it turned into a new move but again, looking on TR, I had had to work so hard to move up that I was already into my 3rd minute at 400w and I couldn't sustain it much longer. Mr B held on a bit more but the bunch were hot on their heels and I plummeted to the back once more.
Soon, I was drifting along at the back, wondering how long we'd been going when up ahead, riders collided mid bunch and bikes and people went all ways! A lot went down and I had to go hard left on to the grass to avoid bouncing bikes. Whilst I don't know the culprit- it reaffirms my belief that 3/4 races are wrong. They are too fast for Cat4's...
Anyway, the bunch was up the road and my heart sunk. If it had been the 2/3's I'd have bailed but if I can break, I should be able to catch right? So 1200w and 10 seconds at 900 got me up to speed and I made myself sustain until I was safely back on. But I was fair cooked!
I didn't really get very far after that- I was on red alert for more crashes and although I got into the top ten and followed a train trying to lift the pace, I was soon drifting back again.
Then the bell went! 8 miles earlier than advertised! Doh! Ah well, try and move up as best I can. Again, it was good training, doing 35mph at 700w trying to move up for a few seconds and then negotiating the bunch through the chicanes. Up ahead, MrB was perfectly located between 3rd and 5th wheel.
Onto the final straight and I was way back. I kept pushing on the pedals and like many a Thruxton race, passed loads of wheels. But all I could see ahead were the bouncing bikes and falling people from earlier and once I realised I wasn't going to make the front group, I steadily eased off.
Sadly, MrB's tester power curve was lacking a little top end and he slowly dropped back in the sprint- but he seemed to ride a great race- perfectly positioned and poised to follow any meaningful breaks.
I'm fat, so take power numbers with a pinch of salt but I did 329np for 57minutes which is pretty crazy! Must retest my FTP when I get a chance.
Decision time now..... I love racing, but my heart tells me 4 weeks of focused training instead could work wonders??
Decision time now….. I love racing, but my heart tells me 4 weeks of focused training instead could work wonders??
It's a tough one that's for sure, but your training in the last 18 months has been proven to work really well, you've come on massively from the bloke who got dumped out the back in the first races. At that stage i honestly doubted you'd get anywhere near the results you have now.
I guess it all comes down to what you want from this now ? Would it make more sense if at all possible to dump 5kg of weight ? Would that give even more benefits ? You can't be far off the most powerful person out there already in your races ? There has to be a limit to what's realistically possible in a power context at your age and training hours available ? Would a bike fitting specificially for improving aero give any benefits ? Clearly, dropping weight and mass would not only give you more w/kg and a smaller physical profile, but of course potentially at the expense of a drop in power.
With regards to weight- I kind of am what I am. I’ll soon be lifted tons at work again and even if I switch a bit of fat to muscle, I doubt I’d get much lower than last year.
And it’s also not a limiter. A weakness perhaps compared to the 70-75kg bracket most cyclists seem to fall into but in circuit racing- it does even out. I can freewheel past skinnies having to doing 250w downhill.
Interestingly, I spotted a guy at Thruxton who looked an absolute monster- around 6’2 and broader than me. Yet in the next race, he not only made the break but was attacking them and got 4th!!
I love the racing so much that it’s tempting to just pile it in all the time but I feel like I need a shot of fitness to leapfrog a few guys. Looking at my power curve from last night, whilst it all felt brutal, at any given point- I was nowhere near any of my pb’s. So my 1 min power wasn’t being stressed, my 5 min power wasn’t being stressed etc etc. It’s why racing isn’t training- unless you literally did intervals on the circuit whilst the race kept lapping you 🤣
Power wise- I think you’d be amazed. A 350w ftp is pretty common in Cat 3 for anyone a little bigger and the lighter guys are well up beyond 4w/kg if not 4.5. Looking at power across Thruxton 2/3 races I’ve even seen someone finish with 420w NP!!
So no- plenty of work to do there.
I’m happy with my bike fit- it’s comfy and powerful and I don’t get any aches or saddle sores even on longer rides. And position takes time- I’m slowly bringing down the gap in power between upright on the Turbo and bent elbows 🤣
Photo proof that they do sometimes get bent these days 🤔🤣
Again, it’s more of a weakness than a limiter- jostling in the bunch at these higher speeds needs control rather than full on aero.
Not very active on here at the moment but been keeping an eye on this thread.
If we were talking about road racing with hills I’d say losing weight would help, but in a crit I really don’t think it matters. It’s all about sub 5 min power and recovery rates for me, particularly at Hillingdon.
It’s been a logistical nightmare but Ive just signed up for Tuesday nights race in the 3s, hoping that the extra effort to get there (stupidly early train to work and then cycle from central to Hillingdon) will encourage me to do more work in the race.
Ultimately my goals remain the same as always;
- don’t cause a crash
- don’t crash
- don’t just be another number in the bunch
- don’t nath (get stuck in and not sit on the edge)
see how that goes 😆
Cool! Hope you have fun. I’d love to join you but it wouldn’t be a good start to my month of not racing 🤣
I may yet get tempted....
Odds are on it being a bunch finish on those Tuesday night races. So if it’s points you want, I’d do little different than you did last time- you were just a few grams of carbs from pulling off a great move 🤣🤣
If you want training then just stalk the top ten and try and follow moves- there’s usually loads of attempts. The biggest problem is organisation as the bunch will start chasing straight away so you need consistent hard pulls with someone for at least two laps.
You can even goad other people into making breaks by getting to the front and then soft pedalling to slow things down- that usually prompts a move which you can then sprint onto with a bigger chance for an actual gap. Trouble is, the people that have made the initial attack don’t seem to appreciate that you’ve created the opportunity and get cross that you’ve jumped on their wheel- then it fizzles out anyway 🤣
All this strategising is making want to race even more 🤦🏻♂️
Weekend spring crits #3, again at Hillingdon. Band 4 points fest, so 15 for a win down to tenth . Weather is rubbish. Cold and starting to rain. Warm up on my rollers under cover. Gilet on and a couple of fast spins to the start.
About 30 riders on the line and just the one race so no chance of a break being DQd by interferences. No wind but now raining harder
Cruise around a couple of laps. Let two get away including the DQd rider from Wednesday. Three go to bridge and a team member blocks for them. Another lap and bang! Time to go. Sprint away and two 300 plus watt laps mean I catch the three and then the two. Break on. Two fall off quite quickly and the four of us settle in.
A puncture takes us down to three including a sprinter who takes the primes. But we hold a gap of 15 seconds for about fifteen laps. The gap comes down to 8 seconds with five to go, so time to up the efforts. Some 330 watt TT efforts down the straight keeps us clear. Last lap the three of us line up. I lead out my mate who just pips the sprinter on the line. The bunch finish about 20 seconds down. 289 Watts NP.
I only needs third for the 10 points and second cat license retained. Delighted.
I also won our club TT championship fourteen hours later by three seconds, with a rather measured effort and power well down at 256 Watts.
as for weight, I think if you are heavier, flat courses like Hillingdon give an advantage. It’s a sprinters course and power not power per kilo is king here. I’m the lightest of those I race against. Hills are always a pain, but even these tend to be fairly short and reward brief harder efforts. And anything slightly downwards sees me works g harder or getting dropped. Seriously. And be been dropped by the bunch on a roller course going downhill!
Just turned 6 years old Mini me No.1 was racing again last week, with the first round of the Marsh Tracs Summer Series on Wednesday where he was in with the U8's and U10's. Racing with the big boys & girls gives him someone to chase, which always seems to work in his favor.
They raced on the short track (800m) for 15mins plus 3 laps and he did us proud coming 2nd in the U8's and 7th Overall
He then went to Pwllheli at Glasfryn Parc go-cart track for the 2nd round of the Welsh Cycling Junior Race series on Friday, the weather was frankly horrible with heavy rain and temperatures hovering around 6deg C, so much so the start was delayed by 45 minutes to allow a lot of the water to be brushed off the track.
He raced in the 6 and Under cat, but due to the time constraints they combined that and the 8 and Under together.
He started off by winning the single lap TT (in his Cat) and then went on to win the lapped race (in his Cat) by 3/4 of a lap and placing top 5 overall too, so all in all a rather successful foray over the border for the little chap.
Clearly a star in the making ! Awesome !
That’s a well earned hot chocolate if ever I saw one!
Awesome Mini Steve!! Fantastic stuff! I’d love to try and get my son going at something this summer.
Nice one TiRed! Well done you. Sounds another fun race too!!
Excess weight was definitely not an advantage on the club run yesterday! 297W NP for 2h18 after things got a little competitive 🤣
Racing with Nath last night in the Cat 3 only race at Hillingdon.
It was another lovely evening weather wise with one small twist- a 12/15mph NNE. That’s an odd wind for here and meant, with us going anti clockwise, that the hill was slow and the straight was super fast.
It was a big field with around 60+ in our race and 40(?) in the big boys race that would be no doubt spoiling our fun at some point.
From there, there’s sadly not much to say!! I wanted a tough training session and was happy to try a few suicide moves off the front. But from the first lap, I was already 3/4 way back and just couldn’t move up! I’d get half way through as we went up the hill then drift steadily backwards again.
The main straight normally presents opportunities but at 33+mph, you aren’t going to make much progress out in the wind so before you know it, another lap has passed.
Sure enough, the E123 race had an impact a few times and a break of ours that got fairly away was ordered back by the comms at risk of DQ!! Shame for them! But I wasn’t anywhere near it 😂
The main E123 bunch do their usual ego pass and then sit up in front of us, effectively neutralising our race for another couple of laps 🤦🏻♂️
Joking of course but it is annoying. Perhaps TiRed is right and I should just try that one instead.
Anyway... nothing happened beyond that. I got to perhaps top ten or maybe five at one point and pushed hard on the pedals for two laps but that was it really. Very much pack fodder.
I’d say ten people could influence our race, ten could just about cling on and the other forty+ of us were very evenly matched and only separated by bravery and luck!
Still- bombing around the Don at speed is pretty good fun I guess 👍🏻👍🏻
The E123 was brutal. A group of nine got away including the winner of Sunday’s Lincoln GP. Bunch chased and chased. I was sprinting down the straight out of the saddle holding 450 Watts just to hold a wheel on some laps!
Passed the thirds. Thanks for the encouragement. I needed it. And yes we were guilty of easing up at times. I thought that the break of four then three looked rather promising in your race - I’m always that fourth man who can’t quite get there! Bob the com is a stickler for non interference. I had to drop back last week, so I know how they are feeling. Did plenty turns on the front the slope was fantastic for me, barely noticed the wind at all, but towards the hour point I was running on fumes.
Anyway the five lap board comes up and I was wishing it said three! Stayed on but when the last lap sprint for one point came, I rolled in at the back. Oldest rider in the race and not last, dropped or lapped NP was 295 or 4.33 Watts/kg for 75 minutes. You don’t get that on Zwift 😀
Then I rode another 12 laps to test a skinsuit, so apologies for not stopping for a tea.
What CH said to be honest.
Felt much safer in that race than I ever have in a 3/4, mentally I kept reminding myself that no one here has just bought a bike and turned up to race. 😆
I'm in between another large diet change so wasn't expecting amazing things, very happy to just stick with the bunch!
I'm aiming to do the anti-clockwise races, so will skip next week and have a look at doing the week after. Partly because I hate clockwise and also it's a huge effort to get there and back (5am start and 10.30pm before I'm even home again).
Back to Thruxton tonight hoping for better luck. A bad crash on the A303 could have scuppered things but I met the queue right by a junction thankfully. Trying another route, a random road closure meant I ended back up in Andover anyway- exactly what I was trying to avoid. It didn’t really matter though and I arrived in plenty of time.
As it was, they moved it back 15mins to allow for the late arrivals.
I decided to warm up on the Turbo for a change. I’ve had it in the car all year but always decided against it. The warm up area is tough at Thruxton going up the pit lane and down the start straight. So you can do sprints but even Sustained Z2 is tough.
I didn’t add much structure. Just ten mins at 200ish, 2 mins at 300 then a couple of 30seconds @ 400.
When I filled up the remaining time on the pit lane loop, I wasn’t sure if it had made a difference but I did at least have a sweat on for once.
Entries were a little bigger this evening with about 60 in our race and enough women for their own race too. A Storey Racing lady decided to join our race for better experience and she was generally in there mixing it up.
After telling MrB that the 2/3 race doesn’t have a built in warm up, we then dawdled off at about 22mph!
Soon it exploded though and it was awesome! With such a strong wind, it was a lap of two halves and the downwind half was very close to 40mph every time!!
I really focussed on my positioning tonight and it made all the difference. If I could coast, I did, if I could move up, I did, if I found myself in the wind as the front of the group sat up- I tempo’d forward and if I carried significant momentum when a move was developing- I followed and if I needed to stick out my elbow and defend my wheel I did!
After studying the wind sock and google maps during warm up, I already knew where I needed to be on each part of the circuit to avoid the head and cross winds,
Up the ‘Hill’ that meant the left hand side but every time, the leaders would swoop right handed leaving the lee side unprotected and I could literally ride at Threshold from the back of the bunch to nearly the front without any issues at all, slotting in before the chicane.
Attacks were constant and varied and inevitably a break got away. And at least one more.
And still people tried to create action.
Venta were active again, blocking very skilfully.
Ultimately, I rolled in with the bunch but it was so much fun.
There were fleeting moments when I could have gone all in to chase a fledgling move which I regret not doing but there were so many positives, it’s hard to care too much.
I’m certainly not going to consider chasing my 40points this year- there is so much to learn about bike racing that I reckon I’m as far from Cat 2 now as I was from 3 when I started.
I may try the Hillingdon E123 Race next week 😱
And first points for Curto?? 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Great write up as always Crosshair.
At the back in the little boys race again for me. Was coming from the office in Bristol rather than home in Winchester so got lucky avoiding the traffic.
Not much to report. Some absolute beast rode away on his own after lap 1. I tried to go after him off the front but he was much stronger than me and I needed a couple of extra wheels to make it work. No-one could be bothered to go with me so I gave up and let myself get swallowed back up. He was clearly racing beneath himself so hopefully he’ll move up next time. Absolutely awesome riding in those conditions to do the whole thing solo and just keep building the gap.
then 10 laps of fannying around as usual, lots of sprints and then coasting. Most interesting thing that happened was the cat and mouse confusion caused by bits of the other races lapping us and then us overtaking them again which went on for a while.
didnt have a great position for the final sprint but managed to sort that out going into the chicane and sprint past a dozen or so bikes. Fairly sure I got 8th on the line and my first Cat4 points in my 3rd race which for me will do very nicely.
i love coming off that track, lungs burning, legs weak, chest pounding. Such a good feeling.
I hadn’t seen your post above when I wrote mine mate, ha ha!
Great work Curto 🙂
Mini-Me was in action again last night down at Marsh Tracs in their summer series, racing in the combine U10's & U8's and in a bigger field than last time he went really well, the top 3 were well over half a lap up with 3 laps to go and he pulled it back to the lad in 3rd, a bit of cat & mouse (I'm surprised he's developed tactics / nous like this already) on the last lap and then he narrowly lost the sprint for 3rd in the U8's.
Awesome!! That’s great stuff.
Seemed the weather scuppered the entries at a lot of races this Tuesday. I’m on a recovery week and had a tummy bug anyhow so no racing here.
A few of us are hoping to head to Hillingdon at 5pm Sunday for a play if anyone wants to join us? @TiRed ?? @Weeksy ??
@MrBlobby may even bring his TT rig for some Testing.
No thanks matey, i'm without an appropriate machine. 🙂
We’ve got several thousand spare bikes between us 🤣🤣
I see you’ve entered Winchester Curto! Should be a good race!! Look forward to the write up on that one.
You fancy Hillingdon for practice on Sunday evening??
Sadly I'm at the ToC in the 50-55 race group so will not be back in time. And yes weeksy, I have enough road bikes for a team.
Having acquired the prerequisite 25 points surprisingly early (like six months earlier than I expected), I'm upping the TT game and learning how to suffer for 50's and 100's. I don't consider 12 hours as suffering - see Guardian thread.
Still racing E12 and vets of course. May enter a few RRs for Surrey League later in the season for mileage.
Sunday evenings are normally good fun at Hillingdon - watch out for the deer 😯
@TiRed How punctual are the skiing club from leaving the circuit at 5pm? (they have it booked all afternoon until then).
I've got lots of deer experience from Richmond park 🙂
First city centre crit today at the Winchester 3/4 race. Gonna assume it was mainly 3rds on the basis of the brutalising I took. Lapped a couple of times even though I was red lining the entire 40 mins. Great fun racing through the twisty little streets of my home town though.
noticed at the end that my front brake was locked on which must have happened over one of the many bumps. Who knows how long i was riding like that, but it’s no excuse.
lots of work to do over the winter to come back and be competitive next year.
Well done Curto 👍🏻 3/4’s are tough gigs.
I had a fun race on Tuesday at Hillingdon. Got in one move early on which fizzled out. Then later, after working pretty hard, bridged across to a solo guy and stayed out there for a couple of laps but we were put off from overtaking the E12 bunch who had slowed in front. So then we got caught.
It was a smaller field (back down to around 30) and I felt like I could get away any time I was fresh. Just needed some more organised break mates to stay away!
The Cat3 winner lapped us solo 😱💪🏻
This should probably go in the doldrums but season over for me.
Guy washes out in front of me in a 3/4 crit leaving me nowhere to go, except over the top and straight to A&E with a broken collar bone.
4 points from regaining my 2nd cat after losing it to chest infections last year.
Every cloud though, just been reunited with my bike (friend took it home with him) and only damage is a tear on the saddle (albeit only 3 rides old) and a scratched top cap.
On to next season...🤷♂️
Cheers CH, best of luck for your season...
Speedy Cat 3 at the Don tonight!
A slightly bigger field again meant every attack was chased down and countered before being chased down once more. Treating it as a full blown training race, I worked hard to get to the front when I slipped back and had few short attacks too. Sadly, the 28mph needed to get a gap just isn’t sustainable for very long 😢
I think 1329w is a race pb which was when I tried to snap off of the front onto a move.
My legs felt awesome but the grass pollen is still bad and I forgot to use my blue inhaler so the lungs were a bit tight by the end. 334NP for the race gave me a good workout though 🤣
Sounds like a cop out to refer to them as training races I know but I’m hoping to have a better chance in the 2/3 Thruxton races when they resume in August so need to keep the punishment coming!!
I slipped right back after a couple of attacks and then nearly got dropped 🤣🤣 I was seriously regretting lighting the blue touch paper that’s for sure!!
Well that’s changed the dynamic slightly! Thruxton have announced that their last four rounds will be an E,1,2 race, a Cat 3 only race and a Cat 4 race.
Whilst I’m glad they didn’t go the 3/4 route, I’m a bit sorry not to be enjoying the 2/3 race again. I imagine it will be nowhere near as aggressive as it was previously.
Thought E123 would work just as well as E12, would possibly only attract the better (safer!) 3rd cat riders with the others opting for the 3rd only race.
Guess it comes down to expected numbers though..
Yeah, they’ve been struggling for entries and loads of E,1 riders have been bemoaning the loss of a race for them on FB.
They did a poll between the original option (2,3/4/womens) and this and this won 🤷🏻♂️
Can’t please all of the people I guess. I’ll still go of course 😀
Brutal windy race at the Don today. Attacked several times and nothing worked so tried bridging to a three up move which lasted a bit longer.
In doing so, I crested the hill at 33mph and as I tipped into the left hander, the wind nearly wiped me out!! Should have put the old wheels on.
Anyway, a couple of laps later, I ended up the wrong side of a split and had to work to weld it back together. For a couple of laps after that, when the counter attacks went, I was very close to getting dropped. Somehow, I hung in there and had a bit of a sprinters resurrection. Coming up the hill in a great position, (4th wheel or so of the remaining bunch with two up the road) I suddenly had a flashback to the wind hitting my wheels earlier and was convinced we were going to crash! A moments hesitation as I readied myself for the wind to strike was all it took to lose 5-6 wheels in a flash. Through Brian’s, I ended up with guys inside and out and things got very tight indeed so I backed off further and watched a great set-up fizzle out to nothing.
But I can’t be disappointed though- it was fantastic race in nearly every way!!
Great pic from Cliff Hughes of the break I bridged over to.
