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How much?! 😯
Will the average non-Orange fan spot the difference?
It's not an exaggeration to say that in my eyes they've been selling the same bike for 150 years, just tweaking the details for the latest standards / trends.
Do they have bottle mounts yet?
How much?!
Not only Orange...
http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=5019&category_id=226
6.5K for a HT?
Getting deeply worried about the way mtb pricing is going!
When my 2012 Five dies, I think I'll be replacing it with a supermarket BSO at this rate 😥
As a long time former Orange fan, I wonder if the latest price hikes will be utilise to fund their ever increasing warranty claim department? Or perhaps adding support to their stretched customer services team? Maybe even find a new hammer to smack frames straight...sorry I would never buy another and that's only partly to do with the price
I know what you mean. £3k used to be super bike money, you need a grand more these days to get the entry level.
I'm not sure it's that they've just doubled the price of everything if that there just some much bling carbon frame seems to be a must these days, a dropper is of course, that's a £1000-£1500 price hike alone, not that Orange mess with carbon of course, they just put the price up to carbon money ha ha.
Getting deeply worried about the way mtb pricing is going!
When my 2012 Five dies, I think I'll be replacing it with a supermarket BSO at this rate
How much did your 2012 Five cost new? There are over 30 FS bikes under £2000 on the linked to site.
The whole "it's so much more expensive than it used to be" comment along with a link to a top spec carbon bike is just a bit lazy.
In real terms I suspect that bike prices haven't risen much since 2012, and you get better bikes.
there are other bike companies, based in the uk, who make very nice bikes, and DONT have you over with a 'made in the uk' rip off price tag.
just a bit south west of halifax, yet still in yorkshire..... 😀
Just wait a bit and buy this time next year. They had some great deals on say the 2017 p7 the other day.
It's a bit like buying a Kona at rrp. You know you can get it so much cheaper in 6 months.
That 6.5k hardtail does weigh 8.4kg however. It ain't cheap but that's ridiculously light even for an xc bike.
Will the average non-Orange fan spot the difference?
I'll happily have a try...
Moar aeroz?
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#Enduro approved colours?
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6mm longerer travel?
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Guy Martin Endorsed?
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When are the Scott 2018 bikes out? They look, excuse my enduro, sick. But I am expecting them to be astronomically priced
Meh, same nonsense being spouted again. I am sure they will actually just cost very similar to comparable bikes, as they always do. They don't even seem that much more than last year but I have not checked.
More of a worry is the lack of a new Segment so far.
fanboi chest?
Anybody know the weights of a 2014 5 frame and the current 2017 frame? Size M
P7 starting to look a bit fussy with the seat tube brace now added to the downtube kink, but I guess it adds some much needed standover. 29 version is interesting.
fanboi chest?
Yep, without doubt, just as you are a vocal hater. Doesn't make what I said untrue though.
'Mega'...
I have the weight of the 2017 5 frame written down at home but I'm currently out of the country will try and remember to post it when back, surprisingly it's not as heavy as everyone would want you to believe
Brexit pricing. We knew it was going to happen
'Back to the fuschia' pink....
[quote=russyh ]I have the weight of the 2017 5 frame written down at home but I'm currently out of the country will try and remember to post it when back, surprisingly it's not as heavy as everyone would want you to believe
Doesn't that depend on how full the drawers are?
I bought my 5 Pro 6 years ago (from Sunset as it happens) and with a few upgrades it was £3560. The comparable model now with similar upgrades is £1000 more but has a better drivetrain and fork so it's not a huge difference once you factor in inflation. Admittedly my bike was on the expensive side compared to the other manufacturers at the time but factoring in the upgrades I made would have been done to whatever I bought it worked out not much more.
Judging by the number of them they seem to sell the price doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. Saying that when it comes to replace it I won't be buying an Orange, too many other options that are well specced without upgrades to choose from now.
The S is only about £100 more and comes with a dropper now. This year P7 was upgraded over the year before too. Never paid much attention to further up the range but I don't think the price is any more unreasonable than before.
Still wouldn't have one though, round here I think Five is the amount of minutes it would take to get nicked.
Has the filing cabinet thing ever actually been funny?
Strike me as similar to the "Oh, you work in IT, so you just tell people to turn it off and on again don't you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
Or any other tired "joke" that people trot out at every opportunity.
Just FYI - as someone who is pretty ambivalent about Orange bikes (think they're overpriced but never ridden one for more than a few yards, so they may be worth it?) - if it ever WAS even slightly amusing, that was a long, long, loooong time ago.
HTH
£3.7k for the pro 5 is insanely bad value
A better speced spectral from canyon can be had for 1400 quid less
Other brands are available, a similarly speced Bird is £1200 cheaper and also uk made
Yes I know buying direct isn't directly comparable, but once you are on the trails does it really matter that it arrived in a big box from germany.
No agenda against orange, but I just can't see any possible reason to buy one. Its a very basically designed alu frame with lots of average parts bolted on. Sure its great that you dont have many bearings to replace, but you pay a substantial premium to save on a few bearings once a year.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
No idea, but the reviews on this very site seem to be positive.
And they sell enough of them that it can't just be the "made in Halifax" appeal, surely?
I'd be interested in trying one out for a while to see for myself, but that's not likely to happen until Orange see the light and realise that a long term test by a complete punter is where they should be investing their kit and money!!
Has the filing cabinet thing ever actually been funny?
not really, but it does have a way of getting under some folks skin.....just a little.
don't worry about the segment it's being replaced by a model called the stage4 in novemberMore of a worry is the lack of a new Segment so far.
Judging by the number of them they seem to sell the price doesn't seem to be too much of a problem
Mibbe just a sign that they're good bikes? There's more Santa Cruz round my local fun stuff than any other brand, by miles.
In real terms I suspect that bike prices haven't risen much since 2012, and you get better bikes.
Cannondale Prophet 2 (2010) - £1499
Pikes, Fox Float, 10/10 in seemingly every review, and seemingly permanently on sale at £999 for about 3 years (even the 2012 model).
Not much these days really get's into even the same ballpark even after inflation. The cheapest Bird Aeris is ~20% more.
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Having said that, Orange were always £1400-£1500 frames back then, so they're actually cheaper!
As an Orange owner, now and in the past, I see why folk pay the price.
- simples. Simple to fix and maintain. Easy to understand. Massive mud clearance and cleaning. Durable. Really durable. Not a lot to go wrong.
- we do deep down like a British company, even if they are not 'properly' British at times (Hope, Cotic, OnOne(!), Sanderson, Singular etc)
- the one time I needed their warranty (oddly on a multi-pivot Orange) they were totally brilliant - and even sorted me out when 3 months past warranty.
*If* I had the money, I would rather they had it then some of the big 'merican or iffy customer serviced' Euro brands...
I'm sure they are great bikes.
But I'm genuinely keen to know why they are better than say a bird, costing a grand less.
For balance I've ridden an alpine and it was awesome. So I'm not disputing the fact that they are great bikes. And tbf the frame only option is not nearly as bad value.
You seem to be paying almost retail prices for the parts however. Buy frame only and shop around and you will end up with a far better bike. Perhaps that's not the market however.
I go into Sunset occasionally to buy a spoke, or a bearing or something. I must admit the Oranges lined up in there look bloody brilliant.
When I was 15 and working as a Saturday boy in a bike shop, The MBUK / Animal/ Orange team would sometimes come in and I would drool over their Orange bikes. Now not so much. Not sure what happened really, but yeah I think basically making the same bike for the last 20 years has something to do with it
I think basically making the same bike for the last 20 years
Which works (or appears to) & sells in enough numbers to keep producing?
You mean? 😆
I own a 10 year old Orange. Let me tell you, it's nothing like the same as the new ones.
Sure thing. I'm off to bed you can tell me all the differences in the morning . Don't stay up too late! 😀
(Not my wall, wish it was my fence)
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Tpbiker wrote
Other brands are available, a similarly speced Bird is £1200 cheaper and also uk made
The bikes are assembled in the UK but the frames are far east built AFAIK. Not really comparable.
Other brands are available, a similarly speced Bird is £1200 cheaper and also uk made
As above, the Birds are only built up here, like with any other frame that you get a shop to build up for you. Orange full-sus frames are manufactured here in the UK - folding, cutting, welding, etc etc.
The list of other UK made full-sus bikes is pretty short but longer than it used to be:
Arbr
Hope
Starling
BTR
Swarf (new one due soon)
Anyone else?
None are cheap!
Anyone else?
Robot....
Well Orange won't be getting any dosh out of me in the foreseeable future, cos there's absolutely nothing wrong with my 2011 5.
It's still a better bike than I'll ever be a rider.
And tbf the frame only option is not nearly as bad value.You seem to be paying almost retail prices for the parts however. Buy frame only and shop around and you will end up with a far better bike. Perhaps that's not the market however.
This, frame only it's not bad...but the 'upgrade' options take the mickey...as said above, buy the frame then go to Wiggle, Tredz, CRC and the others for forks, wheels, brakes etc and get a better bike for far cheaper than Orange sell their complete builds for.
I think this is what rankles most people who aren't fans, as a company surely they buy parts in bulk and as such get an economy of scale that they can pass on to the customer?
....they don't seem to do this though, which comes across as greedy...they're not alone however.
I did this with a different brand's frame and ended up with a better bike than their top spec full build for less money and no second hand parts were used.
Unless going for the direct sales brands (which seem astonishingly well specced) I'd never buy a complete bike again, there's too much tat and compromises on complete builds that I'd want to change straight away and I may as well burn money at that point.
Canyon, Radon, YT, Rose, Bird etc are superb in comparison to traditional brands...and when taken into the competition arena by racers and factory teams they prove their prowess time and time again.
Canyon, Radon and YT get podiums and/or wins in their debut DH world cup seasons...i just don't see that happening with Orange's DH bike if they came back to the sport.
I know the above will be irrelevant to most trail centre riders on their 5's but I like racing pedigree, it improves the breed so to speak and proves a good product.
I like the industrial look, I hate what I perceive to be the greedy and mickey taking attitude of the company.
I think this is what rankles most people who aren't fans, as a company surely they buy parts in bulk and as such get an economy of scale that they can pass on to the customer?
I'm sure I read somewhere the number of bikes they make is ridiculously small (30 a week?). They just seem like a big brand because almost all of them are in the UK. So they probably don't get much better prices than a large LBS (especially when the LBS then takes a margin on the whole bike as well). I suspect it's actually quite clever, they sell frames to those on a budget, and full bikes to those who aren't, and at the same time the LBS is protected because they can offer the latter customer a custom build with their own parts that's competitive.
Canyon, Radon and YT get podiums and/or wins in their debut DH world cup seasons...i just don't see that happening with Orange's DH bike if they came back to the sport.
I know the above will be irrelevant to most trail centre riders on their 5's but I like racing pedigree, it improves the breed so to speak and proves a good product.
Maybe, but think back 10 years and the 222/223/224 was the most successful downhill bike of all time when Peaty, Minnaar, Beaumont, Fairclough, were riding for them. And it was the lightest by quite some margin.
Yes it's not multi pivot and carbon, but equally it was beating the same* multi pivot bikes 10 years ago.
*in the same way a '5' is still the same, a Demo, V10 etc are still the same (they're not, I'm just using the same argument as others use against Orange).
Sure thing. I'm off to bed you can tell me all the differences in the morning . Don't stay up too late!(Not my wall, wish it was my fence)
That shows it quite well, look at the added distance from the crank to the front hub!
yes looks to be about 0.5cm extra per year. It's new and updated! £££ 😀
it's cool, you like them, so do others, I don't like them, so do others.
But I'm genuinely keen to know why they are better than say a bird, costing a grand less.
They probably aren't 'better' but one has a £700 Far East frame, the other a £1700 hand built uk frame so there's your grand. Up to you if the premium is worth it. Does a aluminium Santa Cruz frame perform far worse than the carbon version? It's certainly cheaper but there's no shortage of people who go for the carbon.
I bought an Orange Four last year, and with all the upgrades it cost nearly £4000, but the fun I've had out of it this last year has been worth every penny.
I've been riding Oranges for about 17yrs now, and up until last year, it's almost always been through buying frames and swapping kit from the old bike onto the new. My last full sus frame, an Orange Five from around 2010 cost me about £1500. Seems the new frames are going for around £1650 and are significantly lighter and better looking in my opinion. I'd spend that money for what I know is a brilliant bike frame.
C.
I've been miserable since my Alpine 160 was taken last week. Hopefully sunset will be sorting me out with a new one in the next few days.
I don't see the filing cabinet thing myself. They're more like riding a skip, filled with buckets that someone is towing down a hill with a buldozer.
I recently had an, admittedly short, test ride on a Stage 6 and I have to confess it was good, like, really good.
But I don't think any bike warrants dropping £4k on it regardless of how good it is. That said, just like the car market, there will always be those who do drop the cash on new bikes and for that we should be thankful; in 6, 12, 18 months they're for sale at a fraction of the new price and even if you don't want someone else's dirty saddle, plenty of bike shops flog new, nay defunct, models for a reduced price as the pace of technology marches on.
chestrockwell - but one has a £700 Far East frame, the other a £1700 hand built uk frame so there's your grand.
Sorry, where exactly is that grand? Far East frames are hand built too, Orange might be paying slightly more for welding (~£20ph vs ~$26000pa) but won't be paying import / shipping or covering flights to place orders or checking QC. Looking at videos Orange aren't exactly splashing out on working conditions either.
What you're paying for is brand premium, heritage and profit. Orange reportedly sell as many as they can make so why would they charge less, they don't need to compete on price.
I don't get the accusations thrown at Orange in relation to suspension design and lack of innovation when compared to many manufacturers on the market. Yes, it's a single pivot, and the basic silhouette has remained the same for many years, however each iteration has seen a gradual evolution and refinement of the design. Why continue to try to do something different, when you have a good design which you can continue to make better through advances in shock technology, refinement of design/manufacture etc.
If you look at Specialized for example, they have been plying the same 4-bar / FSR design for many years, or take GT with the i-drive, Santa-Cruz with the VPP etc etc. All examples of companies who have basically been refining the same design for years just like Orange, but very rarely get called out for lack of change. Just because there are a few more moving parts in these bikes, it does not make them more innovative.
All designs have their pros and cons, their fans and detractors. Looks divide opinion, but the new breed of Orange bikes from 2016 on I personally think look great, and much prefer the simple and clean lines in comparison to some of the overly complex and clunky looking multi link designs (that's just me though).
Much seems to me to be lazy criticism from keyboard warriors who think it's hip to hate, but in many cases have never ridden one to form a proper opinion (I do appreciate that, like many other brands, there will be those who just do not get on with them).
On the pricing front, I do feel that they are overpriced as complete bikes (frames are comparable for a UK built product that a lot more work goes into than is given credit for), but that's another matter.
The price increase seems a little harsh. £300+ over the 2017 model for nothing more than a gx eagle upgrade.
I'm about to buy my first Orange after using a friends Crush for the past 2 weeks and falling in love. As tempting as it is to buy the frame and parts and self build for cheaper I think at this point I can max out a 2017 Orange Crush RS build with Hope bb etc for well under 3k if I shop around.
A 2018 Crush RS of similar spec would set me back £3500. I know the UK bike builders that have frames made abroad have had far smaller price hikes for the base eagle builds, I wonder if this is a brexit tax or is all of the trolling towards Orange caused by this kind of thing happening regularly?
Sorry, where exactly is that grand?
That is a very good question.
A Bird Aeris is £1313.99 when you include a shock, an axle and a seat clamp and delivery. An Orange 5 with a comparable shock costs £1650.
There isn't a grand difference in the price. It is £336.01.
Do people who think orange haven't changed in x years or whatever think the same about road bikes that look similar in appearance?
I do love a good Orange thread ..Like most I've had a few bikes in the orange range a crush p7 Five and Alpine five the later being fantastic .but when new bike time came 4 months ago I didn't spend 4500 on the five rs I spend my money on a 160rs whyte ..reasoning moly down to cost
.I love the Whyte and at the time paid 2900 for it with xo eagle and Lyriks is a fantastic bike if the five was the same spec and around 3k money would have gone there ..reason orange bikes just work all year round and I dare say the Whyte will need bearings first but they are free ish .... Orange are brilliant but even folks closer to home are grumbling about the latest price hikes
Paid £400 for this second-hand 😀
Spent another £400 upgrading wheels/bar/new chain/chainring ...
Still bargains to be had if you shy away from big names 8)
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A Bird Aeris is £1313.99 when you include a shock, an axle and a seat clamp and delivery. An Orange 5 with a comparable shock costs £1650.
That makes the Orange frame only prices seem a bargain to me then! I paid £2074 for my current model Segment a year ago. £400 extra for all the parts including Fox 34's and 1x11 didn't seem bad to me.
Does amuse me how over excited people who have no intention of buying Orange get about the pricing. If you want On One prices, get a On One. If you want Canyon, Bird or other direct sales prices, buy direct sales. If you want Yeti, Santa Cruz etc prices, buy one of them. All brands mentioned seem to sell enough to the people they want sales from to keep going.
Someone mentioned a 29er p7 earlier in the thread but can't find anything about this. Is it rumour only?
Looks like Sunset removed most of the 2018 listings, 29 p7 included.
Everything looked pretty standard spec wise, gx eagle upgrades, couple of new colours (purple and bright yellow).
Be very curious to see how a 29 steel handles fun wise.
2017 Orange Crush RS build with Hope bb etc for well under 3k if I shop around
Amazeballs. A made in England metal hardtail for twice the price I paid for my X1 shod carbon race bike.
Hardly a bargain.
The 29" p7 is still there on page two.
http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=6830&8433=40403&8684=41588
As for a 3k Crush.... Even I would draw the line at that as I just can't see where it would be that much of an improvement over my 1k c2w p7.
Amazeballs. A made in England metal hardtail for twice the price I paid for my X1 shod carbon race bike.Hardly a bargain.
Not an orange fan, but I know which one of those 2 I'd rather ride....
Orange hardtails are made in the far East
2018 5S is £2999
2017 5S was recently discounted to £2k.
Nothing new here, plenty of other manufacturers do it, you're just paying a UK premium.
Thanks for the link. Hoping the 29er p7 has some of the same Geo as the new clockwork which looks bang up to date - XL (473 reach, 20" seattube and 66° head angle)
Not an orange fan, but I know which one of those 2 I'd rather ride...
And the greatest respect to your personal choice. I'm just pointing out that "value" for having the "made in Halifax" stamp can be a bit misconstrued.
I bet both of us have a similar amount of fun on out bikes,yet both have a narrow "fun" window.
Just like the Orange 5, the Porsche 911 has hardly changed! And it's a stupid design with the engine behind the rear wheels... 😉
1963:
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2017:
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All they've done is make the wheels bigger and charge you loads more for it! And you're paying a ridiculous premium for made in Europe. 😛
I bought myself an orange MrXC XTRa in 1999. Full xtr, bling manitou forks, titanium bits, etc (it was the first mrXC sold, and looks pretty close to a new 5 as well). Cost £2999 (from memory). In today's money, that's ~£4800 - which seems to be the approx cost of the equivalent today.
I try not to do "how much?" posts, but £3.3k for a 525 steel HT is hilarious.
Got a 5 and a P7 great bikes and I got great deals on them. Would I pay full price. Yes if I earned that much. What price happiness?
I bought myself an orange MrXC XTRa in 1999. Full xtr, bling manitou forks, titanium bits, etc (it was the first mrXC sold, and looks pretty close to a new 5 as well). Cost £2999 (from memory). In today's money, that's ~£4800 - which seems to be the approx cost of the equivalent today
I was just thinking along the same lines.
I paid £2.5k for my Patriot SE in 2002. Fastforward 15 years and circa £5.8k for the modern equivalent of a Alpine 6 Factory is probably about right all things considered - the frame alone is £1,895 (which is on a par with what I paid for my 2014 Alpine 160 c\w CCDB Coil).
The chances of me buying an 'off the peg' bike these days is pretty remote and I fully appreciate that it does seem like a lot of money for an initial outlay but then Mountain Biking has never been a cheap hobby has it?
According to the BOE inflation calculator £2500 in 2002 is worth £3700 in 2016...
chakaping - Member
I try not to do "how much?" posts, but £3.3k for a 525 steel HT is hilarious.
Agreed, Stanton got a bit of grief over their price rises a while back, but they look much better value than the p7....it's a bit of a piss take
I thought everyone had been putting prices up. It was only around 6 months ago I was looking at a carbon Stumpy for £3k, which then went up overnight to £3,400.
Yep tenfoot, every one else puts prices up it's just that people like having a pop at Orange for some reason.
it's just that people like having a pop at Orange for some reason.
That's unfair!
I like having a pop at Yeti, Mondraker, Hope, Spesh, Instense as well - plenty of brands take the piss with some of their pricing.
Agreed that is unfair! I was just talking to my mate about the price of the new scott genius which also appears to be some kind of sick joke. The cost of Orange frames is inline with many other manufacturers, but their complete bike prices are almost greedy. How can you justify the pricing for the latest p7? It's ridiculous, as said before I am a very recently reformed orange fan boi...hell I even have the hoody and about 10 T-shirts. But frankly I would never buy another UK built orange unless the price reflected the quality and the actual real life support. For me they fell woefully short of the mark and despite what the other fanboys say, they couldn't give a shit. In fact the build quality issues, pricing and service levels seem to of gone down the toilet since the ownership change...obviously this is my opinion and experiences
That's unfair!I like having a pop at Yeti, Mondraker, Hope, Spesh, Instense as well - plenty of brands take the piss with some of their pricing.
And yet, at this time of year it seems there's an annual Orange bashing thread. Could you point me in the direction of the annual Yeti, Mondraker, Hope, Spesh etc thread?
Not that it matters anyway and my next bike may not be Orange as there's defo a rise in qc moans. Maybe the new chap is spreading things a bit thin where as Steve and Lester had a better handle on their limits? Saying that, both my post buy out Segment and p7 have been ace so far.